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Third Hand Smoke a Sham?

Health 3rd hand smoke sham? 2009

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#21 Nonny

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:10 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 16 2009, 06:06 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Mar 16 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

No it doesn't, yes you are, yes it is, and it is spousal abuse as well.  IMO of course.

We're getting closer to the fiction world of "Demolition Man" everyday. Hell, nowadays if you even yell at a child people want to say it's abuse.
It can be.  Raising a child in the unhealthful stink of tobacco smoke is definitely abuse.  Yelling at a child for being sick all the time for being stuck in the unhealthful stink of tobacco smoke is abuse too.
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#22 Paul

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:13 PM

View PostNonny, on Mar 17 2009, 02:10 AM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 16 2009, 06:06 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Mar 16 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

No it doesn't, yes you are, yes it is, and it is spousal abuse as well.  IMO of course.

We're getting closer to the fiction world of "Demolition Man" everyday. Hell, nowadays if you even yell at a child people want to say it's abuse.
It can be.  Raising a child in the unhealthful stink of tobacco smoke is definitely abuse.  Yelling at a child for being sick all the time for being stuck in the unhealthful stink of tobacco smoke is abuse too.


Well, I don't know. Is it abuse? I don't really feel comfortable agreeing to that, considering how many people I know who were raised by very loving, yet smoking people.
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#23 Nonny

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:19 PM

View PostPaul, on Mar 16 2009, 06:13 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Mar 17 2009, 02:10 AM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 16 2009, 06:06 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Mar 16 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

No it doesn't, yes you are, yes it is, and it is spousal abuse as well.  IMO of course.

We're getting closer to the fiction world of "Demolition Man" everyday. Hell, nowadays if you even yell at a child people want to say it's abuse.
It can be.  Raising a child in the unhealthful stink of tobacco smoke is definitely abuse.  Yelling at a child for being sick all the time for being stuck in the unhealthful stink of tobacco smoke is abuse too.


Well, I don't know. Is it abuse? I don't really feel comfortable agreeing to that, considering how many people I know who were raised by very loving, yet smoking people.
A loving parent doesn't yell at a child who is sick because of said parent's smoke.  An abusive parent does.
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#24 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:21 PM

View PostNonny, on Mar 16 2009, 09:10 PM, said:

Raising a child in the unhealthful stink of tobacco smoke is definitely abuse.  Yelling at a child for being sick all the time for being stuck in the unhealthful stink of tobacco smoke is abuse too.

Is it also abuse when you don't get the little darling that toy they absolutely, positively, really really want? Is it abuse when you tell a child "No"? Or deny them anything their little hearts desire?  :sarcasm:
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#25 Nonny

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:28 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 16 2009, 06:21 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Mar 16 2009, 09:10 PM, said:

Raising a child in the unhealthful stink of tobacco smoke is definitely abuse.  Yelling at a child for being sick all the time for being stuck in the unhealthful stink of tobacco smoke is abuse too.

Is it also abuse when you don't get the little darling that toy they absolutely, positively, really really want? Is it abuse when you tell a child "No"? Or deny them anything their little hearts desire?  :sarcasm:
My heart desired air I could breathe without getting sick.  

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#26 Nikcara

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:47 PM

IMO yelling at kid can be a part of normal parenting, but it can also spill over into verbal abuse depending on how/why it's used.  If all you're doing is yelling at your kid, particularly if it's over things they can control, that's abuse (for example yelling at a kid for throwing up, or because their teacher assigned a book to read that you don't like, or because at 6 years old they can't do Calculus yet or something).  If you're yelling at a kid because they just broke something expensive while doing something they knew they shouldn't (or some other reasonable situation), that's normal parenting
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#27 BklnScott

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:48 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 16 2009, 09:06 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Mar 16 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

No it doesn't, yes you are, yes it is, and it is spousal abuse as well.  IMO of course.

We're getting closer to the fiction world of "Demolition Man" everyday. Hell, nowadays if you even yell at a child people want to say it's abuse.

I think it's pretty easy to draw the line between yelling at a child (morally neutral--possibly bad, but possibly necessary) and, y'know, poisoning them (*never* OK).

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#28 Cheile

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:59 PM

View PostBklnScott, on Mar 16 2009, 06:48 PM, said:

I think it's pretty easy to draw the line between yelling at a child (morally neutral--possibly bad, but possibly necessary) and, y'know, poisoning them (*never* OK).

don't you just love how everything is stretched to be compared to smoking instead of them ever understanding that they are poisoning everyone else and the environment we live in in addition to themselves?  :rolleyes:

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#29 Nikcara

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:04 PM

As for the article itself - I'm not sure where I stand on the topic of 3rd hand smoke.  It seems like it's something that could be harmful, but is probably being blown out of proportion.  I would have to read some research papers, and frankly I'm way too emotionally drained at the moment to handle that.

Honestly, the first time I heard this I thought they were referring to the studies on damage done to men's sperm cells caused by smoking.  There is some data suggesting male who smoke can pass on some genetic defects caused by cigarettes (and no, it's not definitive and I'm not claiming it is.)

That said, parents who smoke aren't inherently being abusive.  My dad smoked pipes when I was a kid, never got mad at me if I got sick, and was overall a fine parent.  I've never had respiratory issues.  When my sister had asthma, my stepmother initially moved outdoors to smoke, then quit altogether when she realized it was worsening her daughter's illness.  In fact, of the smoking parents I've known, I can't think of any off the top of my head who got angry at their kids for being ill or who I would categorize as "abusive".
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#30 DWF

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:16 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 16 2009, 09:06 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Mar 16 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

No it doesn't, yes you are, yes it is, and it is spousal abuse as well.  IMO of course.

We're getting closer to the fiction world of "Demolition Man" everyday. Hell, nowadays if you even yell at a child people want to say it's abuse.

Yeah but Taco Bell won the burger wars, that's all that matters. :D
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#31 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 10:36 PM

View PostCheile, on Mar 16 2009, 09:59 PM, said:

don't you just love how everything is stretched to be compared to smoking instead of them ever understanding that they are poisoning everyone else and the environment we live in in addition to themselves?  :rolleyes:

Yeah, got to love the evil incarnate smokers. They, and they alone, are responsible for all the evils of the world. Although your average smoker doesn't put out nearly the same amount of polution as the factories, and car exhaust...You know, the things responsible for global warming. But just give the PC crowd time, they'll eventually issue the press release saying that the evil incarnate smokers are solely responsible for global warming.  :sarcasm:
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#32 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 10:37 PM

View PostDWF, on Mar 16 2009, 10:16 PM, said:

Yeah but Taco Bell won the burger wars, that's all that matters. :D

LMAO! Touche!
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#33 Cheile

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:27 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 16 2009, 08:36 PM, said:

Yeah, got to love the evil incarnate smokers. They, and they alone, are responsible for all the evils of the world. Although your average smoker doesn't put out nearly the same amount of polution as the factories, and car exhaust...You know, the things responsible for global warming. But just give the PC crowd time, they'll eventually issue the press release saying that the evil incarnate smokers are solely responsible for global warming.  :sarcasm:

show me where i or anyone else said smoking pollutants were the sole cause of poisoning the environment.  :rolleyes:  it contributes to it, as well as making others sick.  continuing to deny that or persist in calling it the non-smoker's problem is impolite at best.

when cigarettes are made to only poison and pollute the smoker themselves, i will not care about them anymore than i care about alcohol, except for continuing to back efforts that keep kids from smoking.

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#34 scherzo

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:52 AM

View PostBklnScott, on Mar 16 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

It's been known since the 1950s that the content of cigarette smoke is harmful, so explain why it would have to be proved that the content of the dust that cakes itself on walls and coats, etc, is harmful?  It's the same stuff.  It's just no longer airborn.
You answered your own question. It's no longer airborn. With all the potentially harmful things human beings(particularly city dwellers)breath in on a daily basis, I will need more than an untested theory, to start believing my livingroom is sucking the life out of me because some dope lit up a cigarette here years before my arrival. Cigarette smoke would have to be agonizing instant death, to anyone coming into direct contact with it, for me to just automatically embrace a premise like this. Forgive me if I'm not ready to start shaking in my boots, before a real scientific consensus is reached,(not a pointless "survey"...which Paul hilariously linked to as proof of the deadly 3rd hand smoke :) )with at least a LITTLE statistical data to back it up. Just really really wanting to believe...won't cut it.

Edited by scherzo, 17 March 2009 - 05:42 AM.

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#35 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 03:37 AM

View PostCheile, on Mar 17 2009, 12:27 AM, said:

show me where i or anyone else said smoking pollutants were the sole cause of poisoning the environment.  :rolleyes:

I was being sarcastic in my over the top comment. I thought the sarcastic smiley would've made that clear. Sorry if it was unclear.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#36 Nonny

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:42 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 16 2009, 08:36 PM, said:

View PostCheile, on Mar 16 2009, 09:59 PM, said:

don't you just love how everything is stretched to be compared to smoking instead of them ever understanding that they are poisoning everyone else and the environment we live in in addition to themselves?  :rolleyes:

Yeah, got to love the evil incarnate smokers. They, and they alone, are responsible for all the evils of the world. Although your average smoker doesn't put out nearly the same amount of polution as the factories, and car exhaust...You know, the things responsible for global warming. But just give the PC crowd time, they'll eventually issue the press release saying that the evil incarnate smokers are solely responsible for global warming.  :sarcasm:
Well, if the factory owners are smokers, then yeah maybe, but there's also the pope and that guy who runs the Mormons.  Are they smokers too?   ;)
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#37 Nonny

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:43 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 17 2009, 01:37 AM, said:

View PostCheile, on Mar 17 2009, 12:27 AM, said:

show me where i or anyone else said smoking pollutants were the sole cause of poisoning the environment.  :rolleyes:

I was being sarcastic in my over the top comment. I thought the sarcastic smiley would've made that clear. Sorry if it was unclear.
Um, wasn't that far over the top.    :unsure:
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#38 Nonny

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:46 AM

View PostBklnScott, on Mar 16 2009, 06:48 PM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 16 2009, 09:06 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Mar 16 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

No it doesn't, yes you are, yes it is, and it is spousal abuse as well.  IMO of course.

We're getting closer to the fiction world of "Demolition Man" everyday. Hell, nowadays if you even yell at a child people want to say it's abuse.

I think it's pretty easy to draw the line between yelling at a child (morally neutral--possibly bad, but possibly necessary) and, y'know, poisoning them (*never* OK).
Yep.
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#39 BklnScott

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 08:12 AM

View Postscherzo, on Mar 17 2009, 02:52 AM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on Mar 16 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

It's been known since the 1950s that the content of cigarette smoke is harmful, so explain why it would have to be proved that the content of the dust that cakes itself on walls and coats, etc, is harmful?  It's the same stuff.  It's just no longer airborn.
You answered your own question. It's no longer airborn.
  

Dude, are you kidding me?  You've never seen a dust mote?

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#40 sierraleone

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 09:57 AM

View Postscherzo, on Mar 17 2009, 02:52 AM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on Mar 16 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

It's been known since the 1950s that the content of cigarette smoke is harmful, so explain why it would have to be proved that the content of the dust that cakes itself on walls and coats, etc, is harmful?  It's the same stuff.  It's just no longer airborn.
You answered your own question. It's no longer airborn. With all the potentially harmful things human beings(particularly city dwellers)breath in on a daily basis, I will need more than an untested theory, to start believing my livingroom is sucking the life out of me because some dope lit up a cigarette here years before my arrival. Cigarette smoke would have to be agonizing instant death, to anyone coming into direct contact with it, for me to just automatically embrace a premise like this. Forgive me if I'm not ready to start shaking in my boots, before a real scientific consensus is reached,(not a pointless "survey"...which Paul hilariously linked to as proof of the deadly 3rd hand smoke :) )with at least a LITTLE statistical data to back it up. Just really really wanting to believe...won't cut it.

It may have settled on something, but considering it gives off a smell, some of it is still capable of becoming (and some is) airborne again. You can't smell something that isn't airborne. How would the "smelly" molecules reach your olfactory receptor cells in your nose otherwise?
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