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Michael Jackson is dead

Obituaries Michael Jackson Entertainer 2009

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#181 GiGi

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 02:38 AM

^ Well said Mark, well said. I agree completely.
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#182 Balderdash

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 07:05 AM

View PostRhea, on Aug 26 2009, 09:32 PM, said:

View PostBalderdash, on Aug 26 2009, 09:00 AM, said:

View PostRhea, on Aug 26 2009, 08:51 AM, said:

The doctor was completely at fault in Michael Jackson's death, and I hope he gets tossed into jail, which he so richly deserve.

But I truly believe Jackson had been headed down a road for a long time that could only end in his death. The combination of drugs he had been taking for years, his begging the nurse for the propofol before he found a willing doctor to provide him with the crap, everything points to a long-term and serious addiction. I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have died soon anyway. And that doesn't mitigate what the doctor did one iota.

I never said that it did mitigate anything. I've said of course the doctor should be punished. I also said there are so many others over the years that deserve to be punished as well. This doctor will get all the blame but what of the doctor before him and the one before that? Or all of the people around him that know what's going on?

Not to worry, Baldy. I wasn't actually replying directly to you, just the situation in general. And I agree with you as well.

Ultimately, I believe person who killed Michael Jackson was Michael Jackson. Nobody forced him to spend so much time in bed that he developed bed sores. Nobody forced him to shove drugs down his throat. My family has a history of substance abuse - my father drank himself to death and conversely, my brother is an alcoholic with many years of sobriety behind him. Addicts can be helped and addictions can be beaten, but ultimately it is the responsiblity of the addict to either help him- or herself or go down for the count.

As much as I deplore the doctor's actions and look forward to his ass being nailed, I still believe that in the end, the responsibility lay with Michael Jackson himself. If it hadn't been this doctor it would have been another one.


Thanks, I think my reply wasn't just to you it was to Lil who keeps implying that I'm saying the doctor isn't responsible.  Of course he is responsible and I've said so many times.  I've never said anything mitigated his responsiblility just that there are so many others, over time, that helped to kill MJ, including MJ.

:)

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#183 Bad Wolf

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 10:23 AM

Actually my sentiments are mostly directed at people who are saying that Michael is responsible when in this case he was a victim of a doctor who put something ahead of the principles he is legally bound to uphold (not to mention the morality).  so, I guess I'm talking more to Saul and people who agree with the initial sentiment he posted after the death was ruled a homicide.
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#184 Balderdash

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 10:38 AM

^^^

Oh, ok, I guess I thought you were talking to me because you kept showing up after me.  Sorry.  :blush:

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#185 Rhea

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 10:44 AM

The doctor has lied a number of times. I think the cell phone records prove he didn't just leave for a couple of minutes to go to the bathroom and come back, as he stated. He went off and did his own business and came back maybe 45 or 50 minutes or more after he administered the drug, and THEN probably ran down the stairs screaming and didn't start CPR till he ran back up the stairs - he obviously didn't even have time to move Michael to the floor, where CPR should properly be done, before people began running into the room.

The most despicable thing he did was run out calling for the 12-year-old, who seems to have functioned as the adult in the Jackson household, from what I've read. Who calls a young kid into a scene like that?  :glare:

Edited by Rhea, 27 August 2009 - 10:45 AM.

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#186 Bad Wolf

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:24 AM

View PostBalderdash, on Aug 27 2009, 08:38 AM, said:

^^^

Oh, ok, I guess I thought you were talking to me because you kept showing up after me.  Sorry.  :blush:

Sorry about that.  I recognize that I was making you feel defensive.  It's just kind of a hot button for me.  Maybe it's because I too am in a profession where I own my clients a fiduciary duty above and beyond your normal business relationship.
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#187 Mark

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 04:04 PM

View PostBad Wolf, on Aug 27 2009, 10:24 AM, said:

View PostBalderdash, on Aug 27 2009, 08:38 AM, said:

^^^

Oh, ok, I guess I thought you were talking to me because you kept showing up after me.  Sorry.  :blush:

Sorry about that.  I recognize that I was making you feel defensive.  It's just kind of a hot button for me.  Maybe it's because I too am in a profession where I own my clients a fiduciary duty above and beyond your normal business relationship.

Mark:
  Thanks...you just taught me a new, and very useful word to add to my vocabulary. Fiduciary...fiduciary...fiduciary duty...a fid duty. Fuddy-duddy duty....a fiduciary fuddy-duddy...   (ponders words aimlessly while starting to nod off for afternoon nap) :sleeping:
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#188 Vapor Trails

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 04:11 PM

View PostMark, on Aug 27 2009, 02:29 AM, said:

Mark: You know, it's uncanny how similar Michael Jackson's death is with Elvis Presley's. Both had their doctors giving them drugs no ordinary and legal doctor/patient relationship would have even come close to. Even though Elvis' body guards and closest friends saw him going down well before his death, there was no way they could stop him because of his celebrity status, power, and money. I've heard one of Elvis' pharmacist tell the story of Elvis calling him even when the pharmacy was closed, and offering him money to get out of bed, and come fill his prescription. Elvis had at least two doctors catering to his addiction and final destruction is memory serves...I'll have to look that up for my own reference knowledge. The pharmacist claimed Elvis had doctor's and pharmacies working 24/7 while he was in Vegas.
I don't know how Elvis managed it, but he had one doctor giving him a prescription for 100% pharmaceutical grade cocaine that was administered in stick form. According to one of Elvis' bodyguards, Elvis would insert these pure cocaine sticks into both nostrils, and sit on his Vegas hotel balcony completely stoned out of his mind for hours, sometimes days on end. Elvis' doctors should have done jail time too.

Michael and Elvis both were on an obvious course of self-destruction, and sheltered from outside intervention by their fame, fortunes, and social status as American icons. They were truly the untouchables. I think we are all pretty sure by now that Michael was doing more than just sleeping next to more than one of those unfortunate boys that stayed overnight at Neverland Ranch. After Michael settled out of court with the first accuser of his suspected pedophile crimes, the next parents to allow their kid to go spend the night with Michael were obviously doing nothing more than pimping out their own children to get at some of Jackson's extreme wealth. Everyone involved there should have been prosecuted, and no out-of-court settlements should have ever been allowed. So essentially, even our own justice system failed to stop Jackson's deviant behavior.

All the doctors involved in both cases were obviously party to enabling their patient's addiction, and ultimate death. What concerns me most in recent statements made by Jackson's bodyguard (who eventually made the 911 call according to one report I've read) said when he heard the doctor upstairs yelling for help, he ran upstairs quickly (a place he wasn't usually allowed to go), and what he said he saw was Jackson lying unconscious and not breathing (probably already dead), and he stated the doctor seemed confused and disoriented, instead of acting quickly as most doctor's would do and are trained to do in Medical School.
I've got a working theory that perhaps this doctor should have been tested for drug usage!  Two or three accounts as to what happened regarding the time line, are not jiving. The doctor gave police his version when they arrived shortly after the 911 call was placed, and another completely different story is being told by his lawyer, who is telling the press that the police made mistakes when writing in the doctor's account.
What has been determined is the doctor made phone calls from his cell phone (supposedly after administering Jackson's drugs) totally 47 minutes. That simple fact doesn't mesh with the story he initially gave police at the scene.

So I think this quack KNOWS he's in trouble. I hope they have someone on suicide watch for this guy, because the way I see it he has everything to lose at this point, and nothing to gain by going to trial over this.

EXCELLENT post Mark. Very well said.
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#189 Vapor Trails

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 04:14 PM

View PostBad Wolf, on Aug 27 2009, 10:23 AM, said:

Actually my sentiments are mostly directed at people who are saying that Michael is responsible when in this case he was a victim of a doctor who put something ahead of the principles he is legally bound to uphold (not to mention the morality).  so, I guess I'm talking more to Saul and people who agree with the initial sentiment he posted after the death was ruled a homicide.


Umm-Lil, I said BOTH the doctor and Michael were responsible. Several times, in fact.
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"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait



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