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Healthcare Reform

Health Care Reform 2009

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#21 Bad Wolf

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 07:48 PM

^  So I went looking for actual texts of proposed plans and couldn't find any.  Is there one yet or is this all still in the conceptual stages?
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#22 Balderdash

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 09:10 PM

Here is the link to the bill http://www.opencongr.../111-h3200/text

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#23 Bad Wolf

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 09:56 PM

Thanks for the link.  Ye Gods I'm a lawyer and it's going to take me a week to read all that.  I should probably print it out or something and read it in small doses.
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#24 Palisades

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:55 PM

^ Here is the House's legislation, unless it's been superseded by a subsequent bill. [ETA: Looks like Balderdash has already provided a different link to the House's bill.]

In the Senate, two different committees are working on two separate bills. Here is a HuffPo article on the Senate Finance Committee's legislation. I thought the Senate's Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee was working on its own bill, but the bill it narrowly passed along party lines has the same title as the House legislation.

Edited by Palisade, 07 August 2009 - 11:17 PM.

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#25 Aric

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:31 AM

While I certainly applaud all efforts to clarify what's true and not in the health care reform issue, I have to point out that a significant amount of uncertainty exists simply because the Administration hasn't endorsed any particular plans, only guiding principles, and multiple House and Senate committees are drafting their own versions, all somewhat different.  Until we have a final version of the bill, practically everything is speculation and conjecture...

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#26 Bad Wolf

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 01:34 AM

^  That's sort of where I was going when I first asked about the actual text.
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#27 Julianus

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 07:49 AM

I liked representative John Conyer's response regarding reading the house healthcare reform bill.

But then these are the people who brought us Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Can they do for healthcare what they did for the banking industry???  Yes, they can! :eek2:
I am very seriously for healthcare reform, but I think that there has been a terrible loss of focus and no leadership in Congress to bring it about.
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#28 Nittany Lioness

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 08:30 AM

Oh, terrific!  We're in good hands!  I notice Julianus you chose not to use the titled link: Leftist Jackass of the Month.  :D


"Fact: Health care reform will preserve the employer-based health care system, meaning an estimated 200 million Americans will continue to get their coverage through their employers."

Nooope, that's conjecture.

"Fact: Health care reform will reduce costly, preventable hospital readmissions, saving patients and Medicare money."

I'll say it will!  Coulter said it best:  "Take two aspirin and call me when your cancer is Stage 4."

"Fact: The President and Congress have committed to producing legislation that will be paid for so it won't saddle our children and grandchildren with debt."

!!! :lol: !!! ... !!! :cry: !!!

Good god has the AARP caved.  I'm reminded of the SNL skit about Robot Insurance;  trying to soothe the stupid seniors.

Edited by Nittany Lioness, 08 August 2009 - 08:33 AM.

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#29 Balderdash

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:18 PM

View PostAric, on Aug 7 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

While I certainly applaud all efforts to clarify what's true and not in the health care reform issue, I have to point out that a significant amount of uncertainty exists simply because the Administration hasn't endorsed any particular plans, only guiding principles, and multiple House and Senate committees are drafting their own versions, all somewhat different.  Until we have a final version of the bill, practically everything is speculation and conjecture...

Aric

I'm looking for what is really going on even if it is mostly "speculation and conjecture" at this point because it sure beats all of the fear mongering that the Insurance industry is paying for.  It is my fervent wish that we discuss this issue if no other issue in a calm and thoughtful manner, our country needs to do this.  All of the talk about socialism by the Republicans is a scare tactic, all the talk about killing old people is a scare tactic and not the truth.  Going forward, I just want a place where Healthcare Reform can be discussed where you have to provide some sort of proof.  If a person believes that this administration really wants to kill old people then that person needs to explain it in real terms and not snark and sarcasm but show us how that is what is actually happening, no rhetoric allowed.  We have a starting point with HR 3200.

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#30 Balderdash

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:21 PM

View PostNittany Lioness, on Aug 8 2009, 06:30 AM, said:

Oh, terrific!  We're in good hands!  I notice Julianus you chose not to use the titled link: Leftist Jackass of the Month.  :D


"Fact: Health care reform will preserve the employer-based health care system, meaning an estimated 200 million Americans will continue to get their coverage through their employers."

Nooope, that's conjecture.

"Fact: Health care reform will reduce costly, preventable hospital readmissions, saving patients and Medicare money."

I'll say it will!  Coulter said it best:  "Take two aspirin and call me when your cancer is Stage 4."

"Fact: The President and Congress have committed to producing legislation that will be paid for so it won't saddle our children and grandchildren with debt."

!!! :lol: !!! ... !!! :cry: !!!

Good god has the AARP caved.  I'm reminded of the SNL skit about Robot Insurance;  trying to soothe the stupid seniors.


Anyone who can say "Coulter said it best" is not dealing in facts.

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#31 Nittany Lioness

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 02:58 PM

Sound, succinct analysis.   :happy: Which I'll take over AARP's troublesome peddling
of Obama's latest monsterization any day.

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#32 Balderdash

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 04:02 PM

View PostNittany Lioness, on Aug 8 2009, 12:58 PM, said:

Sound, succinct analysis.   :happy: Which I'll take over AARP's troublesome peddling
of Obama's latest monsterization any day.

I've clearly stated that in this thread if no other we refrain from using rhetoric.  Why is AARP's peddling troublesome?  :dontgetit:

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#33 Paul

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 04:26 PM

Myth: The current health care market is competitive, thus resulting in lower costs.

Quote

94 percent of the country's insurance markets are defined as "highly concentrated," according to Justice Department guidelines[...]Premiums have gone up over the past six years by more than 87 percent, on average, while profits at ten of the largest publicly traded health insurance companies rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007.

Link to pdf.


Myth: The current US system is fair and provides quality care for americans, thus making the american system the best in the world.

Thoroughly debunked here, here and here.

Edited by Paul, 08 August 2009 - 04:29 PM.

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#34 Balderdash

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 06:42 PM

View PostPaul, on Aug 8 2009, 02:26 PM, said:

Myth: The current health care market is competitive, thus resulting in lower costs.

Quote

94 percent of the country's insurance markets are defined as "highly concentrated," according to Justice Department guidelines[...]Premiums have gone up over the past six years by more than 87 percent, on average, while profits at ten of the largest publicly traded health insurance companies rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007.

Link to pdf.


Myth: The current US system is fair and provides quality care for americans, thus making the american system the best in the world.

Thoroughly debunked here, here and here.




Thanks Paul.  According to some of the data you provided we pay at least twice if not 3 times what the other top countries pay for health care per capita.  :blink:

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#35 Vapor Trails

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 10:06 PM

Thanks for the thread, Baldy. :cool:
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#36 Paul

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 03:28 AM

View PostBalderdash, on Aug 9 2009, 01:42 AM, said:

Thanks Paul.  According to some of the data you provided we pay at least twice if not 3 times what the other top countries pay for health care per capita.  :blink:

While getting no universal healthcare in return.
"All Religions are equal and good, if only the people that practice them are honest people; and if Turks and heathens came and wanted to live here in this country, we would build them mosques and churches."
- Frederick II, King of Prussia, evil liberal™
~~~~~~
Cameron: "His wife arranged it for an anniversary present. And if you ask me, if two people really trust each other, a threesome once every seven years might actually help a marriage."
House: "Okay, I say we stop the DDX and discuss that comment."
~~~~~~
"Somebody came along and said 'liberal' means 'soft on crime, soft on drugs, soft on Communism, soft on defense, and we're gonna tax you back to the Stone Age because people shouldn't have to go to work if they don't want to.' And instead of saying, 'Well, excuse me, you right-wing, reactionary, xenophobic, homophobic, anti-education, anti-choice, pro-gun, Leave-it-to-Beaver trip back to the '50s,' we cowered in the corner and said, 'Please don't hurt me.' No more." - Bruno Gianelli

#37 Nittany Lioness

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 09:49 AM

quote:
"Why is AARP's peddling troublesome?"

Well, I see it as a snowing of the seniors whose attention they hold.  I didn't expect that of them.  I'm perplexed they're simply handing out supposed conclusions when they have only incomplete, vague evidence.  They're really just parroting the Obamacare tea leaves guesswork.

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#38 Balderdash

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 10:53 AM

View PostNittany Lioness, on Aug 9 2009, 07:49 AM, said:

quote:
"Why is AARP's peddling troublesome?"

Well, I see it as a snowing of the seniors whose attention they hold.  I didn't expect that of them.  I'm perplexed they're simply handing out supposed conclusions when they have only incomplete, vague evidence.  They're really just parroting the Obamacare tea leaves guesswork.

I'm afraid I don't see it as "Obamacare tea leaves guesswork" from the AARP website you can click on the studies they've done.  http://assets.aarp.o.../m7_nothing.pdf  Interesting reading.

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#39 Nittany Lioness

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:36 PM

Well, well, well.  Obama states that AARP is on board with him and "endorses" the bill.  The head of the group says - not so fast. : :bigsmile:  "We have repeatedly told the president we are not endorsing this."  :D

I don't know which is more nauseating, Obama's claim or the AARP seemingly talking out of both sides of their mouth.
They're coming out with 3 more ads.  I'd ask for a Pepto-Bismol, but I'd have to wait in line and get counseling from a panel before I'm allowed to decide to treat myself any further.   :tomato:
:p

Edited by Nittany Lioness, 12 August 2009 - 05:38 PM.

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#40 Nonny

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:40 PM

I'm heading to a senatorial office tomorrow to take part in a health care meeting.
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