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Healthcare Reform

Health Care Reform 2009

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#41 Shalamar

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 08:47 PM

I think part of the problem is that no one knows which of the various health plans being bandied about is going to be the final version. Uncertainty stresses people out and stress makes people react fearfully, especially when they don't trust those writing the plan up.

I really wish they would get thier act together and lay out one health plan for us to look at and debate.

I woulfd very much like to see ...what are they calling it...a public plan option. Though I can understand the worry that coporations would then dump their health provisions. I say simply make it illegal for them to do that. But that is probably too simplistic
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#42 Balderdash

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:31 PM

View PostShalamar, on Aug 12 2009, 06:47 PM, said:

I think part of the problem is that no one knows which of the various health plans being bandied about is going to be the final version. Uncertainty stresses people out and stress makes people react fearfully, especially when they don't trust those writing the plan up.

I really wish they would get thier act together and lay out one health plan for us to look at and debate.

I woulfd very much like to see ...what are they calling it...a public plan option. Though I can understand the worry that coporations would then dump their health provisions. I say simply make it illegal for them to do that. But that is probably too simplistic


In my opinion we need a public option.  The real problem is that whatever happens the Insurance and Pharma industries are not going to like it.  You've got people at townhall meetings talking about socialism like were all going to be hiding under our desks again waitng for a mushroom cloud (like those desks would do anything anyway).  Public option does not equal socialism.

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#43 Shalamar

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 04:30 PM

I agree if it is an Option, one of a range of otpions that are composed of public and private sector. I think that competetion is ultimately healthier for businesses than monopoly ( I know that sounds strange, but it forces them to work the flab off and improve their corporate cardiovascular health  - and I really do believe that it is the flab that is doing more to jack up health care prices than most anything else.

We need to firgure out how to take every thing equally. The cost to the consumer ( John Q Public need to be reasonable, but hospitals, doctors, nurses, lab techs etc and et al they need to be paid not only in a timely fashion time but enough, and we need to make sure that those who make the drugs make enough ( the pharmacy industry has a right to a profit ), and who do the research and development make enough to continue doing that research and development )

Ballance all of that out I think needs more time than seemes to be taken.

We all booed and hissed at how fast the government dumped TARP on us, and yet some seem to not realise that this is as every bit complex ( if not more so ) than that.

I'd rather us not rush in and flub it in the mere desire to be doing something, or securing a presidential legacy.
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#44 Nick

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 05:14 PM

View PostShalamar, on Aug 12 2009, 09:47 PM, said:

I woulfd very much like to see ...what are they calling it...a public plan option. Though I can understand the worry that coporations would then dump their health provisions. I say simply make it illegal for them to do that. But that is probably too simplistic

That's the purpose behind the fines for companies that don't provide healthcare.  If they just dump everyone, everyone will be forced off the private options and into the public plan.  This would result in defacto single-payer (which I'm in support of) but it would ultimately kill private insurers.

#45 Shalamar

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 07:05 PM

I'm not necesssarily in favor of a single payer option, I think that the government is involved enough in our lives - and will be no better than the insurance companies. Just because it is the government doesn't mean it will be effecient, fair, or timely. In fact it is almost guaranteed not to be.

I am not a fan of the Nanny State concept.

I don't trust the government either to level, or collect fines, in an equitable and timely manner either - I'd more like to see something like this:

Jane has coverage for her, her hubby, and their two kids, through the company she works for. She pays X per month and the company pays Y per month. She has Plan C .

Now the company decides to end their benefit of health insurance - they need to be required / mandated to pay Jane at least 75% of what they were paying the insurance company. Now Jane can shop around and get her own insurance - but if she chooses the public option she has to pay for that insurance the total of what  Plan C cost - BUT she gets the same or equivallent coverage as she had under plan C.

Yeah I know, complicated, complicated, and may end up costing her more.

I think that the insurance companies have a right to make a profit, but I think that if they got rid of the flab they still could.

I also think that the public Option should not be that much cheaper than private insurance, but that the government instead ought to heavily subsidize coverage for the truly needy. And I do not consider someone making 200- 300% of the poverty level truly needy.
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#46 Nittany Lioness

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 06:11 AM

quote:
"and will be no better than the insurance companies. Just because it is the government doesn't mean it will be effecient, fair, or timely. In fact it is almost guaranteed not to be."

President Obama agress with you!  He likened the new scenerio with how much better UPS and Fed Ex are from the governmental contracted Postal Service!

Look - we're not going to be that great - you'll have options, America!   :wow:

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#47 Balderdash

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 07:03 AM

View PostShalamar, on Aug 13 2009, 05:05 PM, said:

I'm not necesssarily in favor of a single payer option, I think that the government is involved enough in our lives - and will be no better than the insurance companies. Just because it is the government doesn't mean it will be effecient, fair, or timely. In fact it is almost guaranteed not to be.

I am not a fan of the Nanny State concept.

I don't trust the government either to level, or collect fines, in an equitable and timely manner either - I'd more like to see something like this:

Jane has coverage for her, her hubby, and their two kids, through the company she works for. She pays X per month and the company pays Y per month. She has Plan C .

Now the company decides to end their benefit of health insurance - they need to be required / mandated to pay Jane at least 75% of what they were paying the insurance company. Now Jane can shop around and get her own insurance - but if she chooses the public option she has to pay for that insurance the total of what Plan C cost - BUT she gets the same or equivallent coverage as she had under plan C.

Yeah I know, complicated, complicated, and may end up costing her more.

I think that the insurance companies have a right to make a profit, but I think that if they got rid of the flab they still could.

I also think that the public Option should not be that much cheaper than private insurance, but that the government instead ought to heavily subsidize coverage for the truly needy. And I do not consider someone making 200- 300% of the poverty level truly needy.

:wacko:

I don't think that there is a plan like the one that you put forward.  It looks like with your plan it doesn't matter if it costs more as long as there is no Nanny state?  Too confusing and I don't get it.

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#48 Nick

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 10:51 AM

The thing is . . . VA benefits, Medicare, Tri-Care (the insurance program for military families) and other government provided healthcare plans work pretty darn well.  Medicare-D has some problems, as I feel it was designed deliberately to break Medicare.  The problem with your idea Shal, is that what companies pay for employee health insurance is well below "full menu price" of the same plan if you were on your own.  And full menu price to insure an otherwise healthy individual is around $600/mo.  Couples and families are looking at $1,500 or more.  Something's horribly wrong when health insurance costs more than a mortgage.

The public option would set up a non-profit insurance company that anyone can sign up for.  Premiums will be determined by the same actuaries who work across the industry as it exists, but without all the middle men and CEOs making $100,000 an hour.  So it'll probably be cheaper.  And the private insurers will have to reign in their own costs and actually compete in a free market without their artificial monopolies/oligarchies.  And they'll still make a killing on supplemental insurance plans, just like they do with Medicare.

I can't find the exact figure, but something like 40% of insured Americans are on a government healthcare plan of some sort *right now*.

#49 Nonny

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 01:07 PM

View PostNittany Lioness, on Aug 14 2009, 04:11 AM, said:

Look - we're not going to be that great - you'll have options, America!   :wow:
Since I actually listened to him, I didn't hear that at all.     :blink:
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#50 Nonny

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 01:13 PM

View PostNick, on Aug 16 2009, 08:51 AM, said:

The thing is . . . VA benefits, Medicare, Tri-Care (the insurance program for military families) and other government provided healthcare plans work pretty darn well.
That's why I headed to Senator Feinstein's San Diego office Thursday.  It was a last minute decision, but I went to make my wishes be known about not messing with VA health care.  I have the name and number of somebody in her DC office to call tomorrow.
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot



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