Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

This says it all (Could get HOT)

English as official language Culture Immigrants Islam

  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 05:49 AM

A friend of mine sent this to me in a email, and asked that I pass it on, so I decided to pass it on here as well.

Here it is:

Quote

This says it all....and I agree

 
Will we still be the Country of choice and still be America if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in America because it is the Country of Choice???????? Think about it........

All I have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS? I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break. Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday?? We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.

This says it all!
Note: As of yesterday newspaper here in the State of Florida this issue had not been decided but please read on! After hearing that the state of Florida changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered this is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a Tampa newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.
I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every! citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

If you agree -- pass this along; if you don't agree -- delete it!

AMEN
I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends (and enemies) it will also, sooner or later get back to the complainers, lets all try, please

I hadn't heard about Florida reversing it's decision and allowing the Muslim convert to have her driver's license picture taken complete with her veil on. When I get back from vacation I'll have to search and see if that's true. I seriously hope it isn't though.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#2 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,299 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 06:03 AM

There was extensive discussion on the topic before you returned to the community, LoTS.

That said - I disagree with most of the editorial.

Yes - this is America, and YES, people should learn English, since it is the primary language spoken.  BUT...the United States does NOT have an official language - and creating one in this country would pose significant challenges that need to be addressed appropriately so that we don't start becoming UN-American in our efforts to be American. Until we DO have an official language, and until the proper mechanisms protecting our fundamental rights are in place supporting the establishment of an official language - this article is nothing but hostility toward immigrants.  And THIS, from a nation made up entirely OF immigrants - be we first second or 7th generation.

In God We Trust is NOT a Christian motto - it is a motto of deists who believed fundamentally that God was worth believing in, no matter what your creed.

Finally - the issue of the Muslim woman taking her drivers id without unveiling is a challenging one (which, again - has been discussed here... does someone have the link?).  BUT - this article goes beyond that - it expresses a hostility for her right to be veiled (not just for the picture id, but period - attacking her culture as unAmerican.)  So I'd like to consider all the other cultures that are different from the majority American culture.

For instance - how about the Mormons who practice polygamy, sometimes in defiance of the law (no, I know not all Mormons do.  But SOME do.)?  Or the Amish, who won't accept the modern conveniences?  Or is the distinction only that this woman comes from a culture that happens to have people in it that are hostile to America?  Are we judging her because of her culture?

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#3 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,299 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 06:13 AM

Here's the link.

http://www.exisle.ne...=35

BTW - last couple of posts on the subject state that the woman lost the suit.

QT

Edited by QueenTiye, 26 July 2003 - 06:16 AM.

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#4 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 06:25 AM

Looks like you and I are going to disagree here then, QT.

I remembered the thread discussing the Muslim woman's case, a case she lost. I didn't hear about Flordia reversing it's decision...but that's an entirely different thread in and of itself.

As for the rest of the editorial....Yes, it is a bit harsh, I'll give you that.

But since when did it become America's duty to bend over backwards, and adapt to imigrants cultures? If they are coming here, they must be coming here for a reason. Better life, new hope, ect. Yes, they should keep their cultural history, but that doesn't mean that the rest of America should!

As it stands now. Mexicians can come to America, get all sort of loans to open a business, stay in this country a couple years tax free. And just when they would have to pay taxes, leave...then come back and not have to pay taxes.

This is not fair to Americans who live in this country, pay taxes, and would like to start a business themselves. Imigrants, for whatever reason, seem to be able to get loans, tax free, much easier then Americans.

And now, in CA. You have officials wanting to give valid driver licenses to illegal immigrants! :eek2:  What ever happened to crime doesn't pay? These people are here illegally, and instead of sending them packing, the elected officals want to give them VALID driver's licenses.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#5 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,299 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 06:45 AM

^^ What does living tax free have to do with culture?  What does supporting illegal practices have to do with culture, language or religious freedom?

The examples you give have in common with the issue at hand only ONE thing - an attitude toward immigrants. I agree that immigrants should pay taxes same as everyone else if they earn a living here (same as everyone else).  I disagree with giving driving priviledges to people not authorized to be in the country (unless the idea is to register them, and give them 30 day (or some other extremely short period) passes to straighten out their immigration status - in which case it COULD be a good idea - both to register their presence, and allow them the mobility to properly justify their presence here - since there might be some good reason why they illegally crossed the border.).  I don't agree with the hostile to immigrant idea that everyone should speak only english when we haven't actually instituted any such law that says that, nor figured out a way to accomplish it reasonably. (How much time do they have to learn English if they are here LEGALLY? Or is knowing English going to become a requirement for admission into the country?  Just askin')  

I also don't agree that multiculturalism has no place in American society.  I think that is a ludicrous proposition.  There is some kind of natural flux - adaptability that says that immigrants learn how Americans do things and INCORPORATE it into their own culture so that they can exist here - but slamming multiculturalism is not acceptable in my view.  Should we banish all the chinatowns and little italies in the country?  Kick the Native Americans off the reservations?  Turn on the electricity on the Amish?  How about the southern whites who feel that they have a specific culture that they are trying to reclaim and redeem from the legacy of slavery?  Their culture is American, but they argue that it is distinctively and sufficiently different to deserve to have its full range of expression.  

Just because we get frustrated with abuses of our country's openess doesn't mean that we should shut it down.  Lets not forget how much we have and appreciate because of the very openness we decry in a very specific area.

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#6 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 07:48 AM

Lots, we are ALL products of immigrant families in this country. This has never been a country that was exclusively Christian, or exclusive to any nationality. By the time the Declaration of Independence was signed and the original 13 colonies founded, there were already immigrants here from a number of nations, many of them victims of religious persection.  We have a whole host of ethnic subcultures that have survived for generations, and a host of religious practices as well. THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS, THEY ARE AMERICANS, AND HAVE BEEN FOR GENERATIONS.

This is not a homogenous country - we aren't from the same original ethnic or religous backgrounds. I'm sorry that people like you feel threatened by that, but those are the breaks.  We don't call it "winter break" to keep from offending immigrants - we do it to be INCLUSIVE. It takes nothing away from us whatsoever, and includes those people whose religion doesn't celebrate Christmas - and there are millions of Americans who aren't Christian and THEY AREN'T IMMIGRANTS, dammit.

Frankly, I'm beginning to think that the people who keep screaming about anyone who isn't WASPY moving somewhere else ought to do it themselves - because trying to  make America an in-club of WASPS isn't possible, isn't gonna happen, and IT'S UNAMERICAN.

And as for California, that problem is unsolvable. Nobody wants to or can afford to spend the kind of money it would take to deport literally millions of illegal immigrants, so we're going for the next-best solution. Let 'em hold down jobs and pay taxes like the rest of us.

Edited by Rhea, 26 July 2003 - 07:54 AM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#7 Han

Han

    When all else fails, use fire.

  • Islander
  • 483 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 08:40 AM

Here's a solution: Move to Canada, The Multiculture-Celebrating-Hugging Americans. We have all your rights and we're not so fanatical about upholding Uncle Sam, the Star Spangled Banner and "In God We Trust".  :cool: Immigrants welcome! We take pride in our ethnic heritages and celebrate our differences. Canada's culture is not found in one particular culture, but in the best of many cultures combined. So, if you're tired of Americans, come be a Canadian! If you can stand the winters and Ann Murray, you're prime Canadian material. We've also got beer.  ;)


--
Han
"I am Canadian!!"

Edited by Hankuang, 26 July 2003 - 08:41 AM.

Han

#8 Cardie

Cardie

    I'm a very *good* tailor

  • Administrator
  • 22,600 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 10:34 AM

The attitudes expressed by this man are called "nativist," and every generation of immigrants to this country that has been here long enough to have grandchildren produces a number of individuals who bitch and moan about the inferior culture and moral turpitude of whomever constitutes the next wave of immigrants. There may well have been people who felt just this way about your ancestors LotS; I know there were plenty of people who felt that way about mine.

The fact is, American culture is constantly evolving and changing because of the contributions of those new to our shores. It's no wonder American popular culture dominates the world--it's the sum product of the whole world.

As for the language issue, non-English speakers at most last for the original immigrants. There's no way a child could be born and grow up here without acquiring English, even if another language is poken exclusively at home. I remember being in the grocery store once, and a Chinese couple with a toddler were all conversing to each other in Chinese. Then the eight-year-old son came up to them, lugging a gallon of orange juice and one of milk. He threw them into the cart and said in perfect southern-accented English, "Geez, Dad, these things are heavy."

And no one's rights to wish each other Merry Christmas, assuming they celebrate Christmas, are being taken away by public adoption of terms like "winter break" or "season's greetings." The issue is whether the public, secular business of our country should favor one faith or one culture over another. The Founders did not think it should. I would remind those who are so outraged because their religious holiday is not promoted by the state that the only religious holiday that is also a Federal holiday is Christmas. No other religion's adherents automatically get off work or let out of school on their holiest day.

The US doesn't have either an official language or a state religion, even if some members of the cultural majority would like to pretend that it does or complain that it should.

"Send these, the homeless, tempest tos't to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door"--You're damn right, Emma Lazarus.

Cardie
Nothing succeeds like excess.

#9 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,299 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 10:38 AM

Very excellent post, Cardie!

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#10 aphrael

aphrael
  • Islander
  • 282 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 11:05 AM

I feel sorry for the author.  Seems  to have missed the point of being "American".   We are all immigrant, with the exception of American Indians(but even they came from somewhere  else).     What makes this country great is the diversity.  

Its a shame the author is so upset about foreign languages, considering we are the only developed country that doesn't required kids to learn another language.  Knowing another language opens your world up to  vast opportunities.  

:pout:

:elf:

#11 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 01:49 PM

Go, Cardie!  :p  :p

As usual, Cardie said more calmly what I was heading for in the heat of the moment. That's why I keep her around.  ;)
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#12 Delvo

Delvo
  • Islander
  • 9,273 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 03:13 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jul 25 2003, 12:39 PM, said:

Will we still be the Country of choice and still be America if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in America because it is the Country of Choice???????? Think about it........
OK, first misstep right there. None of the stuff the author complains about is actually being forced on us by the foreigners. It's an American internal political issue being pushed by people who claim to be advocates for the immigrants. But, aside from placing the blame in the wrong place, the author is right: there are real problems with trying to make the American government and people work so hard to keep th eimmigration from feeling like an immigration to the immigrants.

Quote

All I have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS?
How about after you show which ones are being infringed? The real problems the author seems to be reacting to are a different kind, not the infringement of rights.

Quote

I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break.
Not true. But the change, although not being forced on anyone, is rather silly.

Quote

Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday?
Let's rephrase that: Isn't it amazing how the Medieval Christian church, when having a hard time convincing Pagans to convert and give up their established culture, just happened to find out that Jesus was born during the Pagan's favorite and biggest (i.e. least likely to be given up) festival right at the peak of the season that that festival is all about, despite that not being the season when Rome collected its taxes?

Quote

We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.
True.

Quote

the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.
They were already doing that. There's no connection with that attack.

Quote

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
Some of the other people who've responded in this thread don't seem to have read this paragraph, since they're arguing against an isolationist stereotype that this paragraph disproves.

Quote

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
True and a good point. And those who keep trying to find ways to force English-speaking America to make life easy on immigrants on this issue are actually putting the immigrants at a disadvantage by decreasing their incentive to learn English, which would be better for them anyway.

Quote

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.
Not true at all. List the big names on the DoI and in the debates over the Constitution and the AoC, and you'll be naming fewer Christians than non-Christians. Some were atheists, and some were theists and deists, who either did or did not really "trust in God" or worship/fear it but merely believed that there was a creator. Several even deeply hated Christianity, and all feared it or the idea of a government incorporating it. For that matter, individual freedom, the real central principle they wanted their government to honor, is not a Christian idea. Christianity's having gotten its grimy paws into government in various ways after this country's founding is an abomination against the nature and tenets of the founding.

Quote

If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
Like I said before, a misidientification of who the author's talking to; (s)he said it's the immigrants, but this is clearly actually talking to people who are offended by God. (And not really accurate anyway.)

Quote

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.
Same as above.

Quote

once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
Put aside for a moment the fact that the author has stupidly conflated this with immigration, and this is an interesting comment all by itself, if you suppose it's addressed to ANYbody who bashes the USA while living here. Suggesting that they leave isn't intolerance or hatred or a desire to purify the country; it's exposing the badmouthers' hypocrisy.

Edited by Delvo, 26 July 2003 - 03:16 PM.


#13 Delvo

Delvo
  • Islander
  • 9,273 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 03:28 PM

QueenTiye, on Jul 25 2003, 12:53 PM, said:

In God We Trust is NOT a Christian motto - it is a motto of deists who believed fundamentally that God was worth believing in, no matter what your creed.
...which still makes it un-American. It goes AGAINST what this country is really about, and what the majority believe in now. It only got put on the money because there was once a majority (Christian, Jew, Muslim, Deist) who wanted it there, regardless of how solidly opposed to American principles (or offensive to other Americans) it really was.

#14 Delvo

Delvo
  • Islander
  • 9,273 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 03:30 PM

Rhea, on Jul 25 2003, 02:38 PM, said:

I'm beginning to think that the people who keep screaming about anyone who isn't WASPY moving somewhere else ought to do it themselves - because trying to  make America an in-club of WASPS isn't possible, isn't gonna happen, and IT'S UNAMERICAN.
What about people who scream about what should be done about other people whom they accuse of screaming things they didn't scream?

#15 Delvo

Delvo
  • Islander
  • 9,273 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 03:32 PM

Rhea, on Jul 25 2003, 02:38 PM, said:

I'm beginning to think that the people who keep screaming about anyone who isn't WASPY moving somewhere else ought to do it themselves - because trying to  make America an in-club of WASPS isn't possible, isn't gonna happen, and IT'S UNAMERICAN.
What about people who scream (or talk/type) about what should be done about other people whom they accuse of screaming things they didn't scream (or even say/type)?

#16 Guest-2112st-Guest

Guest-2112st-Guest
  • Guest

Posted 26 July 2003 - 03:34 PM

Hankuang, on Jul 25 2003, 09:30 PM, said:

Here's a solution: Move to Canada, The Multiculture-Celebrating-Hugging Americans. We have all your rights and we're not so fanatical about upholding Uncle Sam, the Star Spangled Banner and "In God We Trust".  :cool: Immigrants welcome! We take pride in our ethnic heritages and celebrate our differences. Canada's culture is not found in one particular culture, but in the best of many cultures combined. So, if you're tired of Americans, come be a Canadian! If you can stand the winters and Ann Murray, you're prime Canadian material. We've also got beer.  ;)


--
Han
"I am Canadian!!"
Well, my favorite group is the rock band Rush. I guess that's a good start, ey??

:cool:

Um-what's a "toook"??

:blink:

#17 Delvo

Delvo
  • Islander
  • 9,273 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 03:37 PM

Hankuang, on Jul 25 2003, 03:30 PM, said:

We take pride in our ethnic heritages and celebrate our differences. Canada's culture is not found in one particular culture, but in the best of many cultures combined.
It's utterly bizarre that I've heard this from several Canadians before, also making this same lame comparison with this false image of the USA. It's just plain not true of Canada any more than it is of this country. For that matter, whatever racial problems this country has, at least the sub-races within any broad race aren't at each other anymore... whereas the Canadians I've met had to move because either an English name guaranteed they'd never get anywhere in a French area, or the other way around. Enlightended everbody's-welcome society compared to those conformity-forcing prejudiced xenophobic Americans, indeed. :sarcasm:

#18 eryn

eryn

    So, a baby seal walks into a club...

  • Islander
  • 1,638 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 03:43 PM

Vapor Trails, on Jul 25 2003, 10:24 PM, said:

Um-what's a "toook"??

:blink:
A toque is a hat. ;)

Its a Canadian thing.  :cool:

mystic
If you watch the news and don't like it, then this is your counter program to the news.
Jon Stewart

My Flickr

#19 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,299 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 04:22 PM

Delvo, on Jul 26 2003, 12:03 AM, said:

Quote

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
Some of the other people who've responded in this thread don't seem to have read this paragraph, since they're arguing against an isolationist stereotype that this paragraph disproves.
I think the problem is that there IS some hostility toward immigrants that this article seems to have unveiled.  Even your first response had to correct the misperception that foreigners are doing something bad to US - as opposed to our perhaps misguided policies.  That misperception quickly turns to hostility.

In LoTS response to me - he equated America's willingness to be open to other cultures with tax breaks.  I fail to see the connection between the two things - other than further misperception of blame as belonging to the immigrants rather than to our politicians.

Oh... and THANK you about the Canadian thing...  you beat me to a response on that.

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#20 chicouTYR

chicouTYR

    Marcheuse de la Montagne

  • Islander
  • 228 posts

Posted 26 July 2003 - 04:32 PM

Chicou waves from French Québec!

It's not "toque"! It's "tuque" here! :p
Cheap French/English translator here...



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: English as official language, Culture, Immigrants, Islam

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users