Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Obama OK with ditching public option

Health Care Public Option 2009

  • Please log in to reply
127 replies to this topic

#41 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 06:11 PM

Quote

I understand that you are in a difficult situation. I have family in a similar position. Your points are perfectly valid. However, stating an argument in a combative fashion does help the presentation of your case, nor does it further the general discussion.

You're right, my apologies to palisade. It wasn't really meant to be personal but it came out that way. It just reflects my frustration that many with insurance seem to not give two sh*ts about all the people with no coverage. Your sentiments echoed theirs (but yours didn't carry that dismissive "screw em" tone I've all too often heard). I work in manufacturing (as did my husband until the floor fell out in everything in this state) he's currently looking for work as are 100,000s of others here in Michigan. In recent years more and more manufacturing companies are cutting back or cutting out insurance completely. In the last 8 years we went from both of us having insurance through our employers to neither one of us having coverage. Even when I had coverage though, I was all for some kind of coverage for all Americans. We can pay for healthcare upfront or we can continue to pay for it at the back door (at nose bleed prices) when the uninsured end up in the ER. Either way we're paying. Personally, as long as our politicians are bought and paid for by big insurance and big pharma, there will never be any meaningful healthcare reform in this country. The first step to reform is streamlining forms (universal forms used by ALL providers). Second a cap on profits...I know how many feel about that but frankly health for profit is repugnant to me in the first place but if we are going to have that type of insurance system, we need some kinda cap on how much these insurers rake in for themselves and some common decency in what is allowed (end pre existing condition clauses that deny so many people coverage). Thirdly, we need to stop bending over for be Pharma. There is no Earthly reason why the US should foot the bill for R&D, plus pay nosebleed drug prices on top of that while the rest of the world reaps the benefits and has caps on there drug pricing.

Again Palisade, I AM sorry for coming off snarky. Sometimes you don't realise the level of stress you're carrying and how it manifests itself.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#42 Palisades

Palisades

    Northern Lights

  • Islander
  • 7,753 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 07:50 PM

View PostGambler, on Aug 17 2009, 04:07 PM, said:

It is my opinion that it sounded as if you were bragging.....i.e., I've got MY health insurance.

Just what it sounded like to me.

I wasn't bragging. I couldn't very well say I'm glad the public option is off the table without giving a reason why. I'm open to helping others, but not in a way that may endanger my health insurance. The co-ops proposed as an alternative to the public option sound like a good compromise to me so long as they're able to get the same prices that a major insurance company gets. Personally, I think that it should be public knowledge what medical providers are charging each insurance company and that a medical provider should bill each insurance company the same amount for performing a given procedure. (That is, for example, if John Doe gets rushed to a hospital, that hospital should charge the same amount for his heart surgery regardless of which health insurance company he has.)

Edited by Palisade, 17 August 2009 - 08:14 PM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#43 Palisades

Palisades

    Northern Lights

  • Islander
  • 7,753 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 07:57 PM

View PostLin731, on Aug 17 2009, 05:11 PM, said:

Again Palisade, I AM sorry for coming off snarky. Sometimes you don't realise the level of stress you're carrying and how it manifests itself.

It's all right. You're hardly the first around here to impugn my motivations. I know what this forum is like and wouldn't post if I wasn't willing to take the abuse.
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#44 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:35 PM

View PostGambler, on Aug 17 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

View PostPalisade, on Aug 17 2009, 02:10 PM, said:

View PostLin731, on Aug 17 2009, 02:23 PM, said:

Quote

I'm glad my health insurance is safe and that we can be sure we won't have a public option that engages in cost-shifting.

It truly warms the cockles of my heart to know that YOUR insurance is safe, while I work fulltime without any coverage at all while also paying into coverage for other peoples kids (while my own kids have nothing), the elderly and the poor (poorer than me) and benefits for those useless sobs in DC. Afterall America was built on the concept of "Screw you, I got mine". BTW...insurance copays and premiuims are projected to continue their upward climb, while companies continue to downgrade or eliminate coverage altogether. So enjoy your coverage while it lasts.

What the heck? I've done absolutely nothing to you.

Surely, you can understand why I wouldn't want to support a health-care 'reform' plan that would possibly result in employers pushing their employees into the 'public option' -- a 'public option' whose supporters in Congress won't commit to taking for themselves if the legislation gets passed. If they won't eat their own cooking, why would I want to get forced into it?


It is my opinion that it sounded as if you were bragging.....i.e., I've got MY health insurance.

Just what it sounded like to me.
It sounded to me like he was happy with his current coverage, just like 68% of American voters. The question is, why does it make people angry that EVERYONE isn't as miserable as they are? It's like superliberals believe everything negative in the world is representative of "reality", and anyone actually enjoying life is merely contributing to the general despair. We're all obligated to shoulder equal helpings of suffering, or at the very least...try not to look like we're having a good time. :(
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#45 Gambler

Gambler
  • Islander
  • 239 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:46 PM

View Postscherzo, on Aug 17 2009, 06:35 PM, said:

View PostGambler, on Aug 17 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

View PostPalisade, on Aug 17 2009, 02:10 PM, said:

View PostLin731, on Aug 17 2009, 02:23 PM, said:

Quote

I'm glad my health insurance is safe and that we can be sure we won't have a public option that engages in cost-shifting.

It truly warms the cockles of my heart to know that YOUR insurance is safe, while I work fulltime without any coverage at all while also paying into coverage for other peoples kids (while my own kids have nothing), the elderly and the poor (poorer than me) and benefits for those useless sobs in DC. Afterall America was built on the concept of "Screw you, I got mine". BTW...insurance copays and premiuims are projected to continue their upward climb, while companies continue to downgrade or eliminate coverage altogether. So enjoy your coverage while it lasts.

What the heck? I've done absolutely nothing to you.

Surely, you can understand why I wouldn't want to support a health-care 'reform' plan that would possibly result in employers pushing their employees into the 'public option' -- a 'public option' whose supporters in Congress won't commit to taking for themselves if the legislation gets passed. If they won't eat their own cooking, why would I want to get forced into it?


It is my opinion that it sounded as if you were bragging.....i.e., I've got MY health insurance.

Just what it sounded like to me.
It sounded to me like he was happy with his current coverage, just like 68% of American voters. The question is, why does it make people angry that EVERYONE isn't as miserable as they are? It's like superliberals believe everything negative in the world is representative of "reality", and anyone actually enjoying life is merely contributing to the general despair. We're all obligated to shoulder equal helpings of suffering, or at the very least...try not to look like we're having a good time. :(


I was stating my opinion.  

I would like to know where you got the percentage fromas mentioned in your sentence:''It sounded to me like he was happy with his current coverage, just like 68% of American voters."  (Just because I'd like to know where you got your info.)

Also, Who is a 'superliberal'?  And just what is a 'superliberal'?

#46 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:53 PM

View PostGambler, on Aug 17 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on Aug 17 2009, 06:35 PM, said:

View PostGambler, on Aug 17 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

View PostPalisade, on Aug 17 2009, 02:10 PM, said:

View PostLin731, on Aug 17 2009, 02:23 PM, said:

Quote

I'm glad my health insurance is safe and that we can be sure we won't have a public option that engages in cost-shifting.

It truly warms the cockles of my heart to know that YOUR insurance is safe, while I work fulltime without any coverage at all while also paying into coverage for other peoples kids (while my own kids have nothing), the elderly and the poor (poorer than me) and benefits for those useless sobs in DC. Afterall America was built on the concept of "Screw you, I got mine". BTW...insurance copays and premiuims are projected to continue their upward climb, while companies continue to downgrade or eliminate coverage altogether. So enjoy your coverage while it lasts.

What the heck? I've done absolutely nothing to you.

Surely, you can understand why I wouldn't want to support a health-care 'reform' plan that would possibly result in employers pushing their employees into the 'public option' -- a 'public option' whose supporters in Congress won't commit to taking for themselves if the legislation gets passed. If they won't eat their own cooking, why would I want to get forced into it?


It is my opinion that it sounded as if you were bragging.....i.e., I've got MY health insurance.

Just what it sounded like to me.
It sounded to me like he was happy with his current coverage, just like 68% of American voters. The question is, why does it make people angry that EVERYONE isn't as miserable as they are? It's like superliberals believe everything negative in the world is representative of "reality", and anyone actually enjoying life is merely contributing to the general despair. We're all obligated to shoulder equal helpings of suffering, or at the very least...try not to look like we're having a good time. :(


I was stating my opinion.  

I would like to know where you got the percentage fromas mentioned in your sentence:''It sounded to me like he was happy with his current coverage, just like 68% of American voters."  (Just because I'd like to know where you got your info.)
Rasmussen poll
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#47 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:19 PM

Ya know what, I'm happy with my coverage too.  But if something happens and I'm unemployed before the end of November 2010 and Medicare (if it's still there), I won't have coverage.  No insurance company would accept me.  All the people happy with their insurance are making a lot of noise because they don't want anything to change it for them and seems like most don't much care what happens to the rest of the country.  It won't happen in my lifetime - I had hope but the way things are going, politics is winning -  but we will join civilized countries and make health care available to all of our citizens.
Cats will never be extinct!

#48 Omega

Omega

    Maktel shcree lotak meta setak Oz!

  • Moderator
  • 4,028 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:28 PM

View Postscherzo, on Aug 18 2009, 01:35 AM, said:

It sounded to me like he was happy with his current coverage, just like 68% of American voters. The question is, why does it make people angry that EVERYONE isn't as miserable as they are? It's like superliberals believe everything negative in the world is representative of "reality", and anyone actually enjoying life is merely contributing to the general despair. We're all obligated to shoulder equal helpings of suffering, or at the very least...try not to look like we're having a good time. :(

I'd like to point out here that this post could easily be read to be talking about Lin731.  If this was its intent, ascribing unpleasant motivations to actions for which she has already apologized is not polite and should be avoided.  If the post was not intended to describe Lin731, then I would once again suggest that insults or disparaging remarks about vaguely defined groups be avoided, to prevent such confusion.

#49 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,130 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:29 PM

View Postscherzo, on Aug 17 2009, 09:53 PM, said:


That's an op-ed.  Which is fine, but please don't call it a poll.

#50 Gambler

Gambler
  • Islander
  • 239 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:33 PM

View Postscherzo, on Aug 17 2009, 06:53 PM, said:

View PostGambler, on Aug 17 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on Aug 17 2009, 06:35 PM, said:

View PostGambler, on Aug 17 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

View PostPalisade, on Aug 17 2009, 02:10 PM, said:

View PostLin731, on Aug 17 2009, 02:23 PM, said:

Quote

I'm glad my health insurance is safe and that we can be sure we won't have a public option that engages in cost-shifting.

It truly warms the cockles of my heart to know that YOUR insurance is safe, while I work fulltime without any coverage at all while also paying into coverage for other peoples kids (while my own kids have nothing), the elderly and the poor (poorer than me) and benefits for those useless sobs in DC. Afterall America was built on the concept of "Screw you, I got mine". BTW...insurance copays and premiuims are projected to continue their upward climb, while companies continue to downgrade or eliminate coverage altogether. So enjoy your coverage while it lasts.

What the heck? I've done absolutely nothing to you.

Surely, you can understand why I wouldn't want to support a health-care 'reform' plan that would possibly result in employers pushing their employees into the 'public option' -- a 'public option' whose supporters in Congress won't commit to taking for themselves if the legislation gets passed. If they won't eat their own cooking, why would I want to get forced into it?


It is my opinion that it sounded as if you were bragging.....i.e., I've got MY health insurance.

Just what it sounded like to me.
It sounded to me like he was happy with his current coverage, just like 68% of American voters. The question is, why does it make people angry that EVERYONE isn't as miserable as they are? It's like superliberals believe everything negative in the world is representative of "reality", and anyone actually enjoying life is merely contributing to the general despair. We're all obligated to shoulder equal helpings of suffering, or at the very least...try not to look like we're having a good time. :(


I was stating my opinion.  

I would like to know where you got the percentage fromas mentioned in your sentence:''It sounded to me like he was happy with his current coverage, just like 68% of American voters."  (Just because I'd like to know where you got your info.)
Rasmussen poll



Thank you for your reply.

So the article says 68% of the 1,000 voters they asked were happy with their coverage.  Hmmm......interesting.



You didn't answer my other question, though.  It was from something you wrote in your original reply.....And that is the term 'Superliberal'.

WHO is a superliberal, and WHAT does it mean to be one?(I ask becuase I am trying to understand your intended meaning(s)).

#51 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:33 PM

View PostNick, on Aug 17 2009, 10:29 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on Aug 17 2009, 09:53 PM, said:


That's an op-ed.  Which is fine, but please don't call it a poll.
An Op-Ed by Scott Rasmussen...pollster. He links to the polling data at the end of the article.
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#52 Palisades

Palisades

    Northern Lights

  • Islander
  • 7,753 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:39 PM

Sheesh, I got PMed by someone upset because she thought I had brushed off Lin's apology. I wrote my response the way I did because I tend not to get all mushy and touch-feely -- and because I wasn't particularly bothered by the supposedly offending post so there's very little to apologize for.

Next is the staff going to arrange some sort of group hug?

Edited 'cause I apparently can't type

Edited by Palisade, 17 August 2009 - 10:06 PM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#53 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,130 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:42 PM

View Postscherzo, on Aug 17 2009, 10:33 PM, said:

An Op-Ed by Scott Rasmussen...pollster. He links to the polling data at the end of the article.

Which I do not refute.

Op ed != poll.

#54 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:47 PM

View PostOmega, on Aug 17 2009, 10:28 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on Aug 18 2009, 01:35 AM, said:

It sounded to me like he was happy with his current coverage, just like 68% of American voters. The question is, why does it make people angry that EVERYONE isn't as miserable as they are? It's like superliberals believe everything negative in the world is representative of "reality", and anyone actually enjoying life is merely contributing to the general despair. We're all obligated to shoulder equal helpings of suffering, or at the very least...try not to look like we're having a good time. :(

I'd like to point out here that this post could easily be read to be talking about Lin731.  If this was its intent, ascribing unpleasant motivations to actions for which she has already apologized is not polite and should be avoided.  If the post was not intended to describe Lin731, then I would once again suggest that insults or disparaging remarks about vaguely defined groups be avoided, to prevent such confusion.
It's an observation about very specific behavior. It refers to anyone handicapped by the described attitude. If the shoe doesn't fit, continuing marching happily barefoot.

But as long as we're giving out tips: Implications that posts are "calling out" other unnamed posters, should be avoided. Just thought you should know.
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#55 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:51 PM

View PostNick, on Aug 17 2009, 10:42 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on Aug 17 2009, 10:33 PM, said:

An Op-Ed by Scott Rasmussen...pollster. He links to the polling data at the end of the article.

Which I do not refute.

Op ed != poll.
:dontgetit:
Let's start from the beginning.

Gambler asked where I got the information.

I said "Rasmussen poll"...and provided a link to an article which discusses the numbers.

Where exactly are you losing us?

Edited by scherzo, 17 August 2009 - 09:52 PM.

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#56 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,130 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:56 PM

Then I ask you, who are the "angry" "suberliberals" you refer to?   And what specific behavior are you referring to?

#57 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,130 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:00 PM

View Postscherzo, on Aug 17 2009, 10:51 PM, said:

Let's start from the beginning.

Gambler asked where I got the information.

I said "Rasmussen poll"...and provided a link to an article which discusses the numbers.

Where exactly are you losing us?

I'm following you fine, you just linked to an op-ed but labeled it a poll.  Had I called an annotated Olbermann rant a poll, I'd expect to be called out as well.

#58 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:08 PM

View PostGambler, on Aug 17 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

Also, Who is a 'superliberal'?  And just what is a 'superliberal'?

Posted Image

:angel:
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#59 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:09 PM

View PostNick, on Aug 17 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on Aug 17 2009, 10:51 PM, said:

Let's start from the beginning.

Gambler asked where I got the information.

I said "Rasmussen poll"...and provided a link to an article which discusses the numbers.

Where exactly are you losing us?

I'm following you fine, you just linked to an op-ed but labeled it a poll.
:lol:
Uh yeah...an Op-Ed...written by a pollster...discussing his poll findings...with links to the polls. And "Rasmussen poll" is the direct answer to a direct question.

This the best ya got? :huh2:
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#60 Gambler

Gambler
  • Islander
  • 239 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:09 PM

View PostGhost Rider, on Aug 17 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

View PostGambler, on Aug 17 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

Also, Who is a 'superliberal'?  And just what is a 'superliberal'?

Posted Image

:angel:


:lol:



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Health Care, Public Option, 2009

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users