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Health care reform: myths vs. facts

Health Care 2009

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#1 Spectacles

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:09 AM

I'm looking for solid, factual info on health care reform--which is hard to find in all the flames on the Internet. I came across this straightforward list of myths and fact-checks and thought some of you may be interested in it:

http://blogs.webmd.c...s-vs-facts.html
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#2 GoldenCoal

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 12:00 PM

Thank you. It really has been hard to get hard facts about what this reform is actually going to do, and the article pointed out why: no one actually knows yet. It's sort of frustrating. But I do think I know a little more about the reform than I did yesterday now.

#3 Nonny

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:24 PM

Here's one of the myths in action:    :angry:

Politics In The Doctor's Office?

Quote

Shirley Rish of Mesa, Ariz., met with an orthopedic specialist earlier this month hoping for relief from some pain in her wrist. Instead, she received an unwanted dose of politics.

"Well, we're in a box, because I can't give you a cortisone shot, because of the valley fever," the specialist said, according to Rish, who had recently recovered from valley fever. "Your valley fever doctor would not be happy with me. But we're lucky we're not in the Obama box, because if we were, I couldn't treat you because you're over 70."

"I could not believe my ears," Rish said in an interview with the Huffington Post. She took what the doctor said to be a version of the false "death panel" propaganda spread by health care opponents. She told him she disagreed. "I'm 74, but I'm not stupid," she said.

The orthopedist, Dr. Ralph V. Wilson, did not return calls left with his assistant....
And in a clinical setting, no less.    :angry:
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#4 Spectacles

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:37 PM

^That's disgustingly unprofessional--and unethical.

His patient, however, is a pip. ;). This is what you call a strongly-worded letter :

Quote

"I am extremely well informed, and I know that you are one of those peddling lies that are preventing much needed health care reform," the letter said. "I believe that your comment was intended to intimidate and frighten an elderly patient. I don't doubt that you make that kind of comment to all of your elderly patients. Your comment was unethical and immoral. Those opposing health care reform are motivated by greed, ignorance, or stupidity. I have to assume that in your case, it's not ignorance or stupidity.

"I was terribly upset when I left your office. Please stop perpetuating those kinds of lies."

Strong words, but true. Only I think she may be being too generous by assuming that he's acting out of greed instead of stupidity or ignorance. Doctors can be misinformed ideologues just as readily as anyone else. There are a few in Congress.

But just as it's wrong when a teacher attempts to indoctrinate her students with her own politics, it's wrong when doctors (etc.) do it, too. And it can be quite a rude shock to them when their clients don't allow them to extend their authority to political matters.

Sometimes, I wish we'd return to the days when it was considered impolite to discuss politics and religion with people outside our closest circles. Certainly, this b.s. had no place in a doctor's office.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#5 Spectacles

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:40 PM

View PostGoldenCoal, on Aug 27 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

Thank you. It really has been hard to get hard facts about what this reform is actually going to do, and the article pointed out why: no one actually knows yet. It's sort of frustrating. But I do think I know a little more about the reform than I did yesterday now.

I'm glad you found it useful. I appreciated the links to more info in the piece, too.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#6 Nonny

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 09:21 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Aug 27 2009, 06:37 PM, said:

^That's disgustingly unprofessional--and unethical.
Yes it is.    :thumbdown:  

Quote

His patient, however, is a pip. ;).
Yes she is.    :thumbs-up:

Quote

This is what you call a strongly-worded letter :
Yes it is.    :welldone:
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#7 Cait

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 11:28 AM

View PostSpectacles, on Aug 27 2009, 09:09 AM, said:

I'm looking for solid, factual info on health care reform--which is hard to find in all the flames on the Internet. I came across this straightforward list of myths and fact-checks and thought some of you may be interested in it:

http://blogs.webmd.c...s-vs-facts.html

Thanks Specs, it was interesting, although I pretty much was already clear on all the "myths".

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#8 Nonny

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 09:04 PM

I thought I was saturated with disgust for the health care reform lies out there, but then I read this:  

Huckabee: Kennedy Would Have Been Urged To Die Earlier Under ObamaCare

Mike Huckabee, that noted bearer of false witness, used his radio show to bash health care with a new low blow:

Quote

that, under President Obama's health care plan, Kennedy would have been told to "go home to take pain pills and die" during his last year of life.

"[I]t was President Obama himself who suggested that seniors who don't have as long to live might want to consider just taking a pain pill instead of getting an expensive operation to cure them," said Huckabee. "Yet when Sen. Kennedy was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer at 77, did he give up on life and go home to take pain pills and die? Of course not. He freely did what most of us would do. He choose an expensive operation and painful follow up treatments. He saw his work as vitally important and so he fought for every minute he could stay on this earth doing it. He would be a very fortunate man if his heroic last few months were what future generations remember him most for."
Two thoughts here, that his last few months will not be what Ted Kennedy will be remembered most for, and that Mike Huckabee seems loth to meet his maker.  Heck, I could hardly blame him.     :sarcasm:

Continuing:

Quote

As it happens, Huckabee made his remarks shortly after he derided Democrats for using Kennedy's death to make the pitch that "Congress must hurry and pass the health care reform bill and do it in his memory,"

"That not only defies good taste," said Huckabee, "it defies logic."
Apparently Mike Huckabee has no idea at all of what good taste and logic are all about.  

:headshake:
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#9 Rhea

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 09:49 PM

I do not understand how conservatives like Huckabee can just plain stand up and lie. It's revolting. The usual obfuscation and rhetoric on both sides is bad enough, but lying through your teeth is something else altogether. Good Lord.

I like to imagine Teddy Kennedy haunting Huckabee.

Edited by Rhea, 28 August 2009 - 09:49 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#10 Nonny

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 10:21 PM

View PostRhea, on Aug 28 2009, 07:49 PM, said:

I do not understand how conservatives like Huckabee can just plain stand up and lie. It's revolting. The usual obfuscation and rhetoric on both sides is bad enough, but lying through your teeth is something else altogether. Good Lord.
To me, it's proof positive that they don't actually believe in their god, just use him to scare other folks.   :suspect:

Quote

I like to imagine Teddy Kennedy haunting Huckabee.
:lol:   With his brothers and a few of their friends, like MLK.
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#11 Rhea

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 12:14 AM

The funny thing about all of this is that the so-called "death panel" would actually be incredibly helpful and practical. Allowing doctors to work with patients on end-of-life issues would be a boon for people that are terminally ill and the elderly. I've heard the argument that people go to lawyers for this information (or should) but the truth is that most people aren't going to, and working it through with a doctor as part of the larger issue of care makes more sense to me.

I had several very lengthy surgeries in the last few years and while I certainly didn't expect to die in surgery, I did sign the new equivalent of a living will (now called an "advance health care directive") and a medical power of attorney beforehand. I only know about the existence of both of these things because a family member in Texas, elderly and irretrievably wheelchair-ridden and senile, was kept alive for six month on a ventilator because there was no written document stating her wishes - the whole family was in agreement that she would NOT have wanted it, but she had no written directives. If this hadn't happened to us, I would still be completely ignorant. Believe me, every single member of my family has filled out the same set of paperwork. That's not going to happen - never. again.

I'm thrilled to see that hospitals are beginning to ask people when they have surgery or something similar if they want to sign an advance health care directive. It's a positive step, but it also leaves explaining the meaning of the document in the hands of well-intentioned but untrained clerical staff.

Many people don't know about these documents. It would be a blessing for people to be able to state their wishes ahead of time and take the burden of such hard decision-making off of their families. And that's your "death panel."

Edited by Rhea, 29 August 2009 - 12:15 AM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH



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