Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Health Care

Health Care 2009

  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#41 Chakoteya

Chakoteya

    Playing Devil's Advocate

  • Islander
  • 3,035 posts

Posted 24 September 2009 - 10:40 AM

View PostRhea, on Sep 23 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

you aren't subsidizing other people - you're paying into the system for yourself, if you ever need it.

Sort of. But in reality whatever you pay in now goes straight out to current claimants. It's not as if there is a separate account just in your name that the money goes into as a contingency against your future needs. Yes, there's a 'tick' against your name to say you are a payer and therefore entitled to make claims, but the money you put in isn't waiting for you to draw on it. It's been used. This is why state healthcare has become such a black hole money pit over the last 50 or so years.
Andromeda, Star Trek (all shows) and Doctor Who franchise episode transcripts.


Just because I didn't post a reply doesn't mean I wasn't tempted to.

#42 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 24 September 2009 - 06:27 PM

View PostCardie, on Sep 23 2009, 09:16 PM, said:

That's "mitzvah." ;)

Cardie

Heh. I can spell but I can't type. :blush:
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#43 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 24 September 2009 - 06:31 PM

View PostChakoteya, on Sep 24 2009, 08:40 AM, said:

View PostRhea, on Sep 23 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

you aren't subsidizing other people - you're paying into the system for yourself, if you ever need it.

Sort of. But in reality whatever you pay in now goes straight out to current claimants. It's not as if there is a separate account just in your name that the money goes into as a contingency against your future needs. Yes, there's a 'tick' against your name to say you are a payer and therefore entitled to make claims, but the money you put in isn't waiting for you to draw on it. It's been used. This is why state healthcare has become such a black hole money pit over the last 50 or so years.

Social Security is a sort of yes and no. Yes, money is being paid out to other people. But they do track what you've paid in, and after a certain age you begin getting statements from Social Security showing what you've paid in and what your Social Security payments will look - assuming the money's still there, of course.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#44 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 24 September 2009 - 06:42 PM

View PostAnnibal, on Sep 23 2009, 10:08 PM, said:

^ Well, not really. I mean, my grandparents are still alive, but they all are pretty darn well off, and healthy. I'm pretty isolated to being acquainted with older people, and I can't lie to myself and say I really care all that much about them (sorry if that sounds callous, it's just...me. Age happens. I don't feel sorry for many people, or sympathize, or care). Back to me not feeling any obligation ;). I mean, I don't not care enough to STOP paying my taxes. But heck yeah I'm gonna complain about it. I feel highly suspicious of the programs--I really don't think I'll ever benefit from them.

You're very young. And the younger you are, the less likely you think you are to think you'll ever need that stuff. OTOH, I was only 23 when I got hit by a drunk driver on the Golden Gate Bridge - wrecked my spine, both shoulders and the biceps tendon in one arm. Obviously how healthy I was or my parents or grandparents were didn't factor in. I think when I was your age I thought I'd live forever too. Then life kicks you in the butt. And a settlement was reached when I was still in my 20's. Nobody realized that all the areas that were injured then would cause me problems for the rest of my life or start seriously falling apart after I hit 50. Oops, that means I'm old, huh? ;)
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#45 Annibal

Annibal
  • Islander
  • 3,036 posts

Posted 25 September 2009 - 12:12 AM

^Hey, I'm still gonna live forever. No bubble popping. I'm still holding out hope for that ever elusive elixer of life or fountani of youth or vampire husband. :)

Anyway, {{{{Rhea}}}}....living proof I need to live more before having solid opinions. Mine or very fluid! :)
"A song for a heart so big, god wouldn't let it live. May angels lead you in. Hear you me my friends.
On sleepless roads the sleepless go.
May angels lead you in."

Blue skies, Alex.


My Deviantart page!
My Films and Animations!

#46 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 25 September 2009 - 09:42 AM

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Annibal}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#47 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 25 September 2009 - 11:30 AM

View PostAnnibal, on Sep 24 2009, 10:12 PM, said:

Anyway, {{{{Rhea}}}}....living proof I need to live more before having solid opinions. Mine or very fluid! :)
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Annibal}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#48 Chakoteya

Chakoteya

    Playing Devil's Advocate

  • Islander
  • 3,035 posts

Posted 25 September 2009 - 12:37 PM

Life can throw you a curve ball at any time.

My father was good active 89 and looking after himself, right up until he had a silly little fall. Now he's spent the best part of the last three months in and out of hospital and care home in need of constant care. Thanks to the UK NHS, we haven't had to worry about the cost of the care or treatments, because he's never earned enough to buy his own house, let alone pay for private health insurance and the like.
Andromeda, Star Trek (all shows) and Doctor Who franchise episode transcripts.


Just because I didn't post a reply doesn't mean I wasn't tempted to.

#49 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 25 September 2009 - 03:49 PM

View PostChakoteya, on Sep 25 2009, 05:37 PM, said:

Life can throw you a curve ball at any time.

My father was good active 89 and looking after himself, right up until he had a silly little fall. Now he's spent the best part of the last three months in and out of hospital and care home in need of constant care. Thanks to the UK NHS, we haven't had to worry about the cost of the care or treatments, because he's never earned enough to buy his own house, let alone pay for private health insurance and the like.


Is "care home" a rehab facility or more a "nursing home?"  I ask because while our insurance policies often cover some kind of rehab facility after a hospital stay, they don't cover long-term nursing homes - those require a different kind of insurance.  Medicaid does cover nursing homes for those who have no assets but I'm not sure what quality they are and I'm afraid of finding out (I'll probably end up in one if I can't handle my house by myself).  Healthcare access is a disgrace in this country; care in old age is more so.
Cats will never be extinct!

#50 Chakoteya

Chakoteya

    Playing Devil's Advocate

  • Islander
  • 3,035 posts

Posted 27 September 2009 - 11:02 AM

It's not a full nursing home, it's a place where he has 24 hour aid on hand to walk, dress and so on if required. They're intended for older people who can't fully look after themselves on their own, but aren't in need of constant medical care. Think of it as a sort of long-stay hotel with your own room, meals provided in the dining room and occasional entertainment in the lounge. And if you're really lucky, visitors.
At present the cost is coming out of his life savings, but I'm hoping the county will be willing to assist before that money runs out. He can't live with any of the children because we all have staircases which he can't cope with, and frankly he doesn't want to anyway.
Andromeda, Star Trek (all shows) and Doctor Who franchise episode transcripts.


Just because I didn't post a reply doesn't mean I wasn't tempted to.

#51 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 27 September 2009 - 11:21 AM

Sounds like what we call "assisted living."
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#52 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 28 September 2009 - 09:06 PM

Thought I'd add this new report card:

http://news.yahoo.co...s_canada_health
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#53 Palisades

Palisades

    Northern Lights

  • Islander
  • 7,753 posts

Posted 29 September 2009 - 09:36 AM

Meanwhile, "In Canada, a move toward a private healthcare option" (L.A. Times):

Quote

Reporting from Vancouver, Canada -  When the pain in Christina Woodkey's legs became so severe that she could no long hike or cross-country ski, she went to her local health clinic. The Calgary, Canada, resident was told she'd need to see a hip specialist. Because the problem was not life-threatening, however, she'd have to wait about a year.

So wait she did.

In January, the hip doctor told her that a narrowing of the spine was compressing her nerves and causing the pain. She needed a back specialist. The appointment was set for Sept. 30. "When I was given that date, I asked when could I expect to have surgery," said Woodkey, 72. "They said it would be a year and a half after I had seen this doctor."

So this month, she drove across the border into Montana and got the $50,000 surgery done in two days.

"I don't have insurance. We're not allowed to have private health insurance in Canada," Woodkey said. "It's not going to be easy to come up with the money. But I'm happy to say the pain is almost all gone."

Graphic of wait times in Canada for various procedures
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#54 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 29 September 2009 - 11:24 AM

^ I don't know what she means when she says we're not allow private health insurance.... maybe they mean basic insurance? As I have had supplemental health insurance through work for things not covered by government health insurance.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#55 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 29 September 2009 - 07:22 PM

View PostPalisade, on Sep 29 2009, 07:36 AM, said:

Meanwhile, "In Canada, a move toward a private healthcare option" (L.A. Times):

Quote

Reporting from Vancouver, Canada -  When the pain in Christina Woodkey's legs became so severe that she could no long hike or cross-country ski, she went to her local health clinic. The Calgary, Canada, resident was told she'd need to see a hip specialist. Because the problem was not life-threatening, however, she'd have to wait about a year.

So wait she did.

In January, the hip doctor told her that a narrowing of the spine was compressing her nerves and causing the pain. She needed a back specialist. The appointment was set for Sept. 30. "When I was given that date, I asked when could I expect to have surgery," said Woodkey, 72. "They said it would be a year and a half after I had seen this doctor."

So this month, she drove across the border into Montana and got the $50,000 surgery done in two days.

"I don't have insurance. We're not allowed to have private health insurance in Canada," Woodkey said. "It's not going to be easy to come up with the money. But I'm happy to say the pain is almost all gone."

Graphic of wait times in Canada for various procedures

Must be nice to have $50,000 to blow on surgery instead of waiting.  :sarcasm:

I first saw the back surgeon in something like July or August the first time - I had to wait till June for my surgery.  It was 8 months the second time - and I was losing the function in my right leg. My orthopedic surgeon has a three-month backup for non-emergency appointments. So what? Unless you have an emergency problem, the worst thing you might have happen is pain. And I had a similar condition (stenosis) to the one listed above in addition to a number of other problems. I'm having a hard time working up sympathy. Hell, if she'd had a condition as serious as mine, she would have paid $180,000 for her quickie American surgery - I know, because I have both bills - the second was $160,000. The first was a 5-day stay, the second was three. Oh, yeah - and those were just the hospital bills. Never mind the docs, anethesiologist, etc. She must not have had all that much going on - truly. $50,000 for a back surgery in this country is hard to believe.

Edited by Rhea, 29 September 2009 - 07:24 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#56 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 29 September 2009 - 07:43 PM

View PostRhea, on Sep 29 2009, 05:22 PM, said:

Must be nice to have $50,000 to blow on surgery instead of waiting.  :sarcasm:

I first saw the back surgeon in something like July or August the first time - I had to wait till June for my surgery.  It was 8 months the second time - and I was losing the function in my right leg. My orthopedic surgeon has a three-month backup for non-emergency appointments. So what? Unless you have an emergency problem, the worst thing you might have happen is pain. And I had a similar condition (stenosis) to the one listed above in addition to a number of other problems. I'm having a hard time working up sympathy. Hell, if she'd had a condition as serious as mine, she would have paid $180,000 for her quickie American surgery - I know, because I have both bills - the second was $160,000. The first was a 5-day stay, the second was three. Oh, yeah - and those were just the hospital bills. Never mind the docs, anethesiologist, etc. She must not have had all that much going on - truly. $50,000 for a back surgery in this country is hard to believe.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Rhea}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#57 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 02 October 2009 - 06:31 PM

An interesting point the surgeon made at the time is that pain is not a criterion for back surgery - functionality, or rather the lack of it, is. I was in agony for 8 months before my second back surgery, but there wouldn't have been a second back surgery if my right leg hadn't started malfunctioning, indicating there was a much larger problem than pain (and there was - it just never showed up in the pre-surgery MRI or CAT scan).

My point really was that waiting for elective surgery, even if you're in pain, is not the end of the world, and it happens here as well as in Canada.

I have a friend who was scheduled for back surgery several months ago - the surgeon had an emergency and it had a domino effect - my friend's surgery got pushed back a month.

That's just part of the breaks when you're having elective surgery.

Edited by Rhea, 03 October 2009 - 07:43 AM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Health Care, 2009

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users