Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Dems Mull Dropping Medicare Expansion

Medicare Expansion 2009

  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#1 Shalamar

Shalamar

    Last Star to the Left and Straight on till Morning

  • Forever Missed
  • 17,644 posts

Posted 14 December 2009 - 09:19 PM

Well they killed off the Public Option so as to be able to get support for expanding Medicare in it's place. Now they are looking at doing away with the Medicare expansion JUST to get the whole thing passed by the the first of the year.

This isn't health care reform, it's lets help the insurance companies!

And it's going to happen just because our elected representative want something with the title of HealthCare Reform on it passed - they'll screw us and don't give a damn - They have their own healthcare system, and so they aren't the ones that will be hurting.

Bah humbug and a Pox on the Democrats and Obama. Damn sellouts, asnd weanies in the pockets of the insurance companies!

and this right here is the most blatant hypocracy :

Quote

"Democrats aren't going to let the American people down,"
- you guys and gals already have!

Link

Quote

The end game at hand, Senate Democrats appeared ready to jettison a proposed Medicare expansion from historic health care legislation Monday in hopes of assuring Christmas-week passage of the bill to extend coverage to tens of millions. "Democrats aren't going to let the American people down," Majority Leader Harry Reid said after a closed-door meeting called to discuss last-minute trade-offs in the legislation that President Barack Obama has made a top priority. "I'm confident that by next week, we will be on our way toward final passage."

Liberals sought the Medicare expansion as a last-minute substitute for a full-blown, government-run insurance program that moderates earlier insisted be jettisoned. But it drew strong opposition from Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., and quieter concerns from a dozen Democrats — all of whose votes are essential for Democrats to overcome implacable Republican opposition.

"Put me down tonight as encouraged about the direction these talks are going," Lieberman said less than 24 hours after he rattled Democrats with his threat to join side with Republican opponents unless he got his way.

Reid did not say flatly that Democrats had decided to drop the proposal for uninsured Americans as young as 55 to purchase coverage under Medicare. But several senators said it appeared inevitable, and liberals sounded resigned to it. "I want to see health care reform," Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, said.

Edited by Shalamar, 14 December 2009 - 09:22 PM.

The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

Posted Image

#2 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 14 December 2009 - 09:24 PM

:eh:

Ever skeptical, I don't necessarily believe a bull is a bull-even if you show me the manbits. Are they the real deal?  :suspect:

That's how I feel about this whole health-care thing. And, as usual, only the strong (those with the Big Money™ ) survive. The poor unwashed heathen are better off dying, so they aren't a drain on the rest of society. And I'm sure there are MANY people who believe just that. They are just too cowardly to come out and say it.

To sum up...same as it ever was.

:eh:
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#3 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 14 December 2009 - 09:51 PM

Well Lieberman is, in someone else's very apt words, a douchebag
Posted Image

#4 Palisades

Palisades

    Northern Lights

  • Islander
  • 7,753 posts

Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:06 PM

The Medicare Buy-In Is Dead--The Liberals Are Now the Swing Votes in Health Care (Dec. 11)

Liberal Demands Over Giving Up the Public Option Threaten Health Care Deals (Dec. 8)
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#5 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:49 PM

shal said:

Well they killed off the Public Option so as to be able to get support for expanding Medicare in it's place. Now they are looking at doing away with the Medicare expansion JUST to get the whole thing passed by the the first of the year.

This isn't health care reform, it's lets help the insurance companies!

And it's going to happen just because our elected representative want something with the title of HealthCare Reform on it passed - they'll screw us and don't give a damn - They have their own healthcare system, and so they aren't the ones that will be hurting.

Bah humbug and a Pox on the Democrats and Obama. Damn sellouts, asnd weanies in the pockets of the insurance companies!

In the main, I agree with that, Shal, but I do think there are important reforms in the bill, even without the public option or the expansion of medicare.  There's the ban on dropping people because of pre-existing conditions, for one.  That's super important.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#6 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,130 posts

Posted 14 December 2009 - 11:05 PM

Wow . . . Lieberman is really taking his vendetta against the progressives to the extreme.  He even PROPOSED the Medicare extension.  He's just trying to punk Senate Dem leadership.  I don't think he'll ever support the bill.

#7 Captain Jack

Captain Jack

    Where's the rum?

  • Islander
  • 14,914 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 03:53 AM

This so-called health care plan is going to be nothing but a disaster.  If you thought that standing in line in the DMV, getting VA care, dealing with the US postal service, and filling out paper work on an FHA loan was bad, better hold on to your butts, 'cause the health care Titanic is heading for the mother of all ice-bergs.  Oh, please, if you disagree fee free to reply.  I know some of you here will be itching to.  I can wait a few months after the plan goes in effect (if it does), and say "I told you so" when I see threads popping up of how f***ed up your visits and plans are.  Maybe then people will learn that big bureaucratic governments can't run jack squat.  In the mean time, I'll just find a safe place to stand while that big building called reality check comes crashing down on those who think I'm wrong.

"Npw serving B9374. at window number 5..."


ETA: Oh wait, my bad.  I said I can wait a few months.  Make that a few years as the next four years we'll be paying taxes and get nothing in return.  Better yet, who thinks the money received will be spent away and the program will be seriously under-funded and delayed?  Look at the problems with social security.

Edited by Captain Jack, 15 December 2009 - 03:57 AM.

Posted Image
689 Reasons to Defeat Barack Obama in 2012:

https://www.national...at-barack-obama

#8 Balderdash

Balderdash
  • Islander
  • 5,729 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 08:03 AM

The Dems?!?!?!?!  How about the do nothing, block EVERYTHING Republicans?  My god people, if it were up to Dems everyone would be covered.  How about "The People" shut that ass Leiberman up and let him know that from now on we do the deciding and he can go work directly with the Insurance companies.  Call your damned Reps and bitch at them not a message board that can't do a damned thing for you.  Here is a link with other links to just about anyone in Government that you could want to talk to.  

http://www.usa.gov/C...t/Elected.shtml

Have at it.

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



"Being gay is not a Western invention, it is a human reality"  by HRC


#9 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 10:50 AM

captain jack said:

This so-called health care plan is going to be nothing but a disaster. If you thought that standing in line in the DMV, getting VA care, dealing with the US postal service, and filling out paper work on an FHA loan was bad, better hold on to your butts, 'cause the health care Titanic is heading for the mother of all ice-bergs. Oh, please, if you disagree fee free to reply. I know some of you here will be itching to. I can wait a few months after the plan goes in effect (if it does), and say "I told you so" when I see threads popping up of how f***ed up your visits and plans are.

What about the plan makes you think that your existing health insurance will suddenly go DMV?  I think this is a canard floated by people who don't actually know what's in the bill.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#10 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,130 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 11:28 AM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Dec 15 2009, 03:53 AM, said:

If you thought that standing in line in the DMV, getting VA care, dealing with the US postal service, and filling out paper work on an FHA loan was bad

Actually I'm pretty pleased with the DMV.  I've only had to go in person perhaps three times in my entire life so far.  The first was to get my learner's permit, the second time was to take the test for my license, and the third time was when I moved to Florida and needed to get a Florida license (just a photo and a signature).  In each case, the wait was reasonable and I was on my way in short order.  For more routine stuff, they provide everything I've needed online and just mailed me my new license, license plate, registration, etc.

I've never gotten VA care, as I'm not a veteran (are you?), but I was a military brat and had a lot of care at the Naval hospitals (heck, I was BORN in one!) and I've always received consistently stellar care.  Most of my life has been on government-provided TriCare for military families, and it's only in recent years I've been on private insurance--which is MUCH more expensive w/ regards to out of pocket costs.  My broken ankle a few years back caused me over $500 out of pocket, and I've got what's supposed to be REALLY GOOD private insurance.  If I could go back to TriCare and the Naval Hospitals, I would.  In a heartbeat.

I'm similarly pleased with the USPS.  I order lots of stuff online, and I select USPS whenever it's an option.  UPS and Fedex are fine, but they're more expensive.  While I was in school, I'd make regular trips to the post office to sell my books online and ship them out.  If you're comfortable using the automatic scale, it's easy as pie to weigh the package, put in your money, and slap on the stamp it prints out.

I've occasionally had to go up to the counter when the machine was offline--or the post office didn't have an automatic machine, and it was quick and efficient.  And despite the constant rate increases, the post office remains cheaper than UPS and FedEx and they still manage to break even budget wise.

I have no expereince with FHA loans, however.  I have yet to purchase my own home, but I'll let you know how that goes.

This bill no longer has anything to do with Government-run health insurance (oh, if only).  But the agencies you mentioned as supposedly bad examples . . . really aren't at all in my experience.  And I've had a sh*t ton more trouble dealing w/ my private insurance provider than all of those supposedly poorly-run-agencies combined.

#11 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 12:37 PM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Dec 15 2009, 12:53 AM, said:

This so-called health care plan is going to be nothing but a disaster.  If you thought that standing in line in the DMV, getting VA care, dealing with the US postal service, and filling out paper work on an FHA loan was bad, better hold on to your butts, 'cause the health care Titanic is heading for the mother of all ice-bergs.  Oh, please, if you disagree fee free to reply.  I know some of you here will be itching to.
I'd just love to hear some of your war stories about the VA.  Make sure they're personal.
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#12 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 12:44 PM

View PostShalamar, on Dec 14 2009, 06:19 PM, said:

Bah humbug and a Pox on the Democrats and Obama. Damn sellouts, asnd weanies in the pockets of the insurance companies!

This is how I know that you know that the Dems aren't the problem:

Quote

implacable Republican opposition.
and:

Quote

"Put me down tonight as encouraged about the direction these talks are going," Lieberman said less than 24 hours after he rattled Democrats with his threat to join side with Republican opponents unless he got his way.
All quoted from the same  post.
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#13 Shalamar

Shalamar

    Last Star to the Left and Straight on till Morning

  • Forever Missed
  • 17,644 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 04:27 PM

Look, as far as I am concerned both sides are the problem -  any elected official currently in Washington D.C. is the Damn Problem- lets hang all the politicians and maybe the next batch will have a learning experience -

But the Dems are the ones parading around saying they're going to "get it done right" for Americans- and thats b*llsh*t- they are just as deep in Insurance's and other Special Intrest's pockets as all the other politicians.
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

Posted Image

#14 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,130 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 04:33 PM

View PostShalamar, on Dec 15 2009, 04:27 PM, said:

Look, as far as I am concerned both sides are the problem -  any elected official currently in Washington D.C. is the Damn Problem- lets hang all the politicians and maybe the next batch will have a learning experience -

But the Dems are the ones parading around saying they're going to "get it done right" for Americans- and thats b*llsh*t- they are just as deep in Insurance's and other Special Intrest's pockets as all the other politicians.

Won't argue with you there.

#15 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 04:34 PM

View PostShalamar, on Dec 15 2009, 01:27 PM, said:

Look, as far as I am concerned both sides are the problem -  any elected official currently in Washington D.C. is the Damn Problem- lets hang all the politicians and maybe the next batch will have a learning experience -
I'm not much for lynch mobs, no matter which side they're after.
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#16 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 07:15 PM

^  I'd settle for unseating.
Posted Image

#17 Captain Jack

Captain Jack

    Where's the rum?

  • Islander
  • 14,914 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 06:35 AM

View PostBklnScott, on Dec 15 2009, 07:50 AM, said:

captain jack said:

This so-called health care plan is going to be nothing but a disaster. If you thought that standing in line in the DMV, getting VA care, dealing with the US postal service, and filling out paper work on an FHA loan was bad, better hold on to your butts, 'cause the health care Titanic is heading for the mother of all ice-bergs. Oh, please, if you disagree fee free to reply. I know some of you here will be itching to. I can wait a few months after the plan goes in effect (if it does), and say "I told you so" when I see threads popping up of how f***ed up your visits and plans are.

What about the plan makes you think that your existing health insurance will suddenly go DMV?  I think this is a canard floated by people who don't actually know what's in the bill.

The government can not run anything efficiently and without going over-budget, not even themselves.  And you want them to run health care?  1/6th of the nation's economy?

View PostNonny, on Dec 15 2009, 09:37 AM, said:

View PostCaptain Jack, on Dec 15 2009, 12:53 AM, said:

This so-called health care plan is going to be nothing but a disaster.  If you thought that standing in line in the DMV, getting VA care, dealing with the US postal service, and filling out paper work on an FHA loan was bad, better hold on to your butts, 'cause the health care Titanic is heading for the mother of all ice-bergs.  Oh, please, if you disagree fee free to reply.  I know some of you here will be itching to.
I'd just love to hear some of your war stories about the VA.  Make sure they're personal.

I would, and believe me, they are deeply personal.  More than you can imagine.  But I don't know you from squat to really confide in such matters with you.  All I will say here is that veterans deserve a hell of a lot better care than what they are getting now.  Don't get personal with me.

View PostShalamar, on Dec 15 2009, 01:27 PM, said:

Look, as far as I am concerned both sides are the problem -  any elected official currently in Washington D.C. is the Damn Problem- lets hang all the politicians and maybe the next batch will have a learning experience -

But the Dems are the ones parading around saying they're going to "get it done right" for Americans- and thats b*llsh*t- they are just as deep in Insurance's and other Special Interest's pockets as all the other politicians.

A very fair post, probably the most fair I've seen from anyone in a long time.  True, both sides are at fault, but the Dems are shoving this down America's throat at warp speed.  Many of them haven't read the 2,000+ page bill themselves.  That's far from encouraging.  They're pushing this to get done by Christmas Eve, and that's ridiculous.  This is major, and must be handled with extreme care and given a lot of serious thought and planning.  What's with the race?   The Dem's and the President are pressuring everyone who wants to think this through to just agree and that's it.  And I find that cavalier attitude very disturbing.  

What's even more disturbing is a good number of Obama's staff had ties with Goldman Sachs and other banking companies.  Who is really profiting here.  What's even worse than that is the fact that no one is going to get "affordable" healthcare.  We may very well be paying more for it.  That defeats the whole purpose of it.  Not to mention MAKING Americans pay for it is un-Constitutional.  Expect to see a ton more taxes tacked on and a lot less in your paychecks.  Nice work.  Enjoy your happy road to hell for those who support this bill.

At least some Republicans and Democrats have some brains and see the train-wreck that lies ahead.  Oh wait, we can't admit that they're right, they're the "bad guys". :sarcasm:

Edited by Captain Jack, 16 December 2009 - 06:36 AM.

Posted Image
689 Reasons to Defeat Barack Obama in 2012:

https://www.national...at-barack-obama

#18 Balderdash

Balderdash
  • Islander
  • 5,729 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:52 AM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Dec 16 2009, 04:35 AM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on Dec 15 2009, 07:50 AM, said:

captain jack said:

This so-called health care plan is going to be nothing but a disaster. If you thought that standing in line in the DMV, getting VA care, dealing with the US postal service, and filling out paper work on an FHA loan was bad, better hold on to your butts, 'cause the health care Titanic is heading for the mother of all ice-bergs. Oh, please, if you disagree fee free to reply. I know some of you here will be itching to. I can wait a few months after the plan goes in effect (if it does), and say "I told you so" when I see threads popping up of how f***ed up your visits and plans are.

What about the plan makes you think that your existing health insurance will suddenly go DMV?  I think this is a canard floated by people who don't actually know what's in the bill.

The government can not run anything efficiently and without going over-budget, not even themselves.  And you want them to run health care?  1/6th of the nation's economy?

View PostNonny, on Dec 15 2009, 09:37 AM, said:

View PostCaptain Jack, on Dec 15 2009, 12:53 AM, said:

This so-called health care plan is going to be nothing but a disaster.  If you thought that standing in line in the DMV, getting VA care, dealing with the US postal service, and filling out paper work on an FHA loan was bad, better hold on to your butts, 'cause the health care Titanic is heading for the mother of all ice-bergs.  Oh, please, if you disagree fee free to reply.  I know some of you here will be itching to.
I'd just love to hear some of your war stories about the VA.  Make sure they're personal.

I would, and believe me, they are deeply personal.  More than you can imagine.  But I don't know you from squat to really confide in such matters with you.  All I will say here is that veterans deserve a hell of a lot better care than what they are getting now.  Don't get personal with me.

View PostShalamar, on Dec 15 2009, 01:27 PM, said:

Look, as far as I am concerned both sides are the problem -  any elected official currently in Washington D.C. is the Damn Problem- lets hang all the politicians and maybe the next batch will have a learning experience -

But the Dems are the ones parading around saying they're going to "get it done right" for Americans- and thats b*llsh*t- they are just as deep in Insurance's and other Special Interest's pockets as all the other politicians.

A very fair post, probably the most fair I've seen from anyone in a long time.  True, both sides are at fault, but the Dems are shoving this down America's throat at warp speed.  Many of them haven't read the 2,000+ page bill themselves.  That's far from encouraging.  They're pushing this to get done by Christmas Eve, and that's ridiculous.  This is major, and must be handled with extreme care and given a lot of serious thought and planning.  What's with the race?   The Dem's and the President are pressuring everyone who wants to think this through to just agree and that's it.  And I find that cavalier attitude very disturbing.  

What's even more disturbing is a good number of Obama's staff had ties with Goldman Sachs and other banking companies.  Who is really profiting here.  What's even worse than that is the fact that no one is going to get "affordable" healthcare.  We may very well be paying more for it.  That defeats the whole purpose of it.  Not to mention MAKING Americans pay for it is un-Constitutional.  Expect to see a ton more taxes tacked on and a lot less in your paychecks.  Nice work.  Enjoy your happy road to hell for those who support this bill.

At least some Republicans and Democrats have some brains and see the train-wreck that lies ahead.  Oh wait, we can't admit that they're right, they're the "bad guys". :sarcasm:


Are you just making that stuff up as you go?  Even if we don't get any kind of public option we're going to get cheaper, for us, healthcare, we're going to get the ability to get healthcare even if we have a pre-existing condition.

Quote

Not to mention MAKING Americans pay for it is un-Constitutional.

What the hell are you talking about?  And you're wrong about the taxes too.  Where do you get this stuff?  And no, I don't support this bill.

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



"Being gay is not a Western invention, it is a human reality"  by HRC


#19 Balderdash

Balderdash
  • Islander
  • 5,729 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:55 AM

View PostShalamar, on Dec 15 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

Look, as far as I am concerned both sides are the problem -  any elected official currently in Washington D.C. is the Damn Problem- lets hang all the politicians and maybe the next batch will have a learning experience -

But the Dems are the ones parading around saying they're going to "get it done right" for Americans- and thats b*llsh*t- they are just as deep in Insurance's and other Special Intrest's pockets as all the other politicians.

Both sides are the problem but it gets tiring watching the Dems take all the heat when the Republicans have nothing for you, nothing, no healthcare reform at all.  Like I said, maybe if we, all of us , get up off our complaining asses and take those complaints to our Reps maybe that would mean more to them than what the Insurance industry pays them.

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



"Being gay is not a Western invention, it is a human reality"  by HRC


#20 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:00 AM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Dec 16 2009, 06:35 AM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on Dec 15 2009, 07:50 AM, said:

captain jack said:

This so-called health care plan is going to be nothing but a disaster. If you thought that standing in line in the DMV, getting VA care, dealing with the US postal service, and filling out paper work on an FHA loan was bad, better hold on to your butts, 'cause the health care Titanic is heading for the mother of all ice-bergs. Oh, please, if you disagree fee free to reply. I know some of you here will be itching to. I can wait a few months after the plan goes in effect (if it does), and say "I told you so" when I see threads popping up of how f***ed up your visits and plans are.

What about the plan makes you think that your existing health insurance will suddenly go DMV?  I think this is a canard floated by people who don't actually know what's in the bill.

The government can not run anything efficiently and without going over-budget, not even themselves.  And you want them to run health care?  1/6th of the nation's economy?

I asked you what about the plan makes you think your existing health insurance will suddenly go DMV (and, as Nick points out, that's old school DMV, not current DMV, which is run pretty efficiently).  Again, I asked because it's been my experience that this canard of rationed healthcare and endless queuing for heart surgery, et al, tends to be floated solely by reactionaries who odn't actually know what's in the bill.  Your response--which does nothing more than restate the initial assertion--does nothing to shake me from this conviction.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Medicare, Expansion, 2009

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users