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Dems Mull Dropping Medicare Expansion

Medicare Expansion 2009

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#21 Palisades

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:43 AM

The two earlier links I posted make it pretty clear the Medicare buy-in was gasping its last on its deathbed before Lieberman put it out of its misery. The budget numbers wouldn't have worked, and liberal Democrats were shooting themselves in the foot by chortling with glee about how it was a giant step closer to single-payer healthcare, and "Never mind the camel’s nose, we’ve got his head and neck in the tent."

Edited by Palisade, 16 December 2009 - 10:44 AM.

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#22 BklnScott

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:57 AM

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The budget numbers wouldn't have worked

But the scoring isn't even out yet, is it?  Certainly, Lieberman -- who as others have noted was once a strong advocate for the Medicare buy-in option -- didn't wait to hear what the CBO said.  (And he claims to have just "forgotten" that he advocated the Medicare buy-in just 2 months ago.)

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#23 Palisades

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:00 AM

^ It's not too hard to do a back-of-the-envelope estimate without waiting for the CBO.
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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#24 Palisades

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:13 AM

Actually, I must have gotten my links mixed up: the two I posted argued the Medicare buy-in was dead regardless of what the CBO said. So the number I was thinking must have come from elsewhere.

Edited by Palisade, 16 December 2009 - 11:23 AM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#25 Palisades

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:11 PM

FireDogLake argues, "the Senate bill is designed to make your health insurance worse."
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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#26 Lin731

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 09:33 PM

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FireDogLake argues, "the Senate bill is designed to make your health insurance worse."

Really? Worse than having none? For the millions of American (working Americans no less) without ANY coverage, how exactly COULD it make things worse? We have more and more Americans every year losing their healthcare coverage and it seems the Republican answer is to block ANY attempt at providing it. I hear all this crap about the government being less efficient than private insurance providers but that simple is NOT true. Private insurance providers have ALOT more waste than medicare has. At the end of the day I think it's pathetic that this country can't put party politics and special interest lobbying aside to actually do something for the people they represent. Personally, I think our tax money should STOP paying for their healthcare coverage until they get off their asses and do their jobs and HELP the people they allegedly represent. Why should I pay for their coverage while I have none?
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#27 Palisades

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 09:41 PM

^ You're quite welcome to argue your point with FireDogLake in their comments section.

They're writing post after post against this thing!
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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#28 Lin731

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:35 PM

My argument is with the concept that doing nothing is a good solution. Personally I don't care about firedog or all the sky-is-falling stuff that comes up everytime we try and reform healthcare. As far as I'm concerned insurance companies are as corrupt as they could possibly be. They have a vested interest in NOT paying for care whenever they can get away with it. The system is a mishmash of thousands of providers with their own billing and coding and an army of pencil pushers playing the "How do I have to bill it to THIS provider to get them to pay" and an army on the other side playing "how many times can we refuse to pay under the guise of improper billing codes" before the biller gives up. The system is a joke. You want to cut a ton of waste, force them ALL to use standardised forms with the same billing codes...period. Want to cut cost, cap drug prices. Stop paying the R&D AND then getting gouged to make up for what the drug companies can't charge the rest of the developed world that has already capped drug costs. There is no excuse for allowing these industries to continue to run amuck at our expense.
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#29 Enkephalen

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:01 PM

Lin 731 said:

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We have more and more Americans every year losing their healthcare coverage and it seems the Republican answer is to block ANY attempt at providing it.

I thought the Democrats had the majority in congress.  How can the minority Republicans block anything other than to argue against it.  They weren't in on the negotiations were they?  I thought the Democrats had all the votes they needed without the Republicans.

I admit, I am confused. . .I don't do politics very well.

Edited by Enkephalen, 16 December 2009 - 11:02 PM.

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#30 Palisades

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:08 PM

^  Moderate Democrats / Blue Dogs aren't so pleased with what the Pelosi faction wants.
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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#31 Enkephalen

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:14 PM

^^But those groups are Democrats -- where does blaming the Republicans come into the picture as blocking the healthcare plan?
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#32 Palisades

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:17 PM

^ All the Republicans in the Senate (with the possible exception of Olympia Snowe) will vote against it so to guarantee 60 votes, every Democrat + Lieberman (an independent) has to vote for it.

Edited by Palisade, 16 December 2009 - 11:22 PM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#33 Lin731

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:24 PM

Yep you need the blue dogs, which are kinda Republican lite but the fact that the Republican response has been to rachet up rhetoric about socialism and all these chicken little sceneros. I haven't seen any real effort on their part to compromise and those two factors just scream obstructionist politics. "No" is not a policy or a plan and by and large mostly what I hear is all the things they won't support and very little else. eah the blue dogs are an issue but they aren't an entire party. It seems that all but Snowe are unwilling to really do much more thanfearmonger at every turn. Oh and of course Lieberman. He ought to just drop any pretense and just run as a Republican.
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#34 Nick

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:31 PM

View PostLin731, on Dec 16 2009, 10:35 PM, said:

My argument is with the concept that doing nothing is a good solution.

Nobody's arguing that doing nothing is a good solution, just that the bill in its present form has become even worse.  I think taking out the mandate is the easiest target at this point in time to make it a vaguely acceptable starting point to be built on later.  I'm not so naive to think we've got to get everything we want RIGHT NOW or it's no good to us.  Hal Sparks of all people made a great comment this morning--we're being baby shakers.  "WHY AREN'T YOU WALKING YET!?!?!?!?!?"

But that said, I don't expect a perfect bill, I never did.  I just want one that isn't a complete wet-kiss to the insurance industry.  Shovelling taxpayer dollars into private insurance companies' coffers both indirectly through the mandate and directly through premium subsidies isn't going to improve anything.  The only way to get monopolies to lower their prices are via government restrictions and by forcing them to compete.  What's left in the bill in its present form that does either of those?

Until I see something that does, I don't want this bill & we need to keep fighting until we have something in place that actually addresses healthcare costs.

#35 Nick

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:32 PM

View PostLin731, on Dec 16 2009, 11:24 PM, said:

Oh and of course Lieberman. He ought to just drop any pretense and just run as a Republican.

Assuming he even runs for reelection, I'm certain he will.

#36 Themis

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:34 PM

View PostEnkephalen, on Dec 17 2009, 04:14 AM, said:

^^But those groups are Democrats -- where does blaming the Republicans come into the picture as blocking the healthcare plan?


Because the Republicans won't vote for it, almost "just because."  If a few Democrats also balk, there goes the majority.  (Palisade beat me to it.)

I'm with Lin - don't allow any tax money to pay for insurance for elected officials.  Though since so many of them are rolling in money, it probably wouldn't matter.  Having just lost my job, and because it was with a company of under 20 people, I can only do COBRA for 3 months, then I'm thrown on the trash heap with all the other Americans with no coverage because I'm uninsurable.  I only have to stay relatively healthy for 9 months of no insurance, probably taking half my meds because I won't be able to afford them, then I'm on Medicare - if I live that long.  My British friends gripe sometimes about National Health but they've basically had good service and they find it hard to believe the mess that is US health care...
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#37 Vapor Trails

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 12:37 AM

View PostThemis, on Dec 16 2009, 11:34 PM, said:

Having just lost my job, and because it was with a company of under 20 people, I can only do COBRA for 3 months, then I'm thrown on the trash heap with all the other Americans with no coverage because I'm uninsurable.  I only have to stay relatively healthy for 9 months of no insurance, probably taking half my meds because I won't be able to afford them, then I'm on Medicare - if I live that long.  My British friends gripe sometimes about National Health but they've basically had good service and they find it hard to believe the mess that is US health care...


{{{{{{{{{{{{Themis}}}}}}}}}}}}


I'm TERRIBLY sorry to hear this. :( I hope things work out for you. :(
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#38 Lover of Purple

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 05:56 AM

View PostThemis, on Dec 16 2009, 08:34 PM, said:

View PostEnkephalen, on Dec 17 2009, 04:14 AM, said:

^^But those groups are Democrats -- where does blaming the Republicans come into the picture as blocking the healthcare plan?


Because the Republicans won't vote for it, almost "just because."  If a few Democrats also balk, there goes the majority.  (Palisade beat me to it.)

I'm with Lin - don't allow any tax money to pay for insurance for elected officials.  Though since so many of them are rolling in money, it probably wouldn't matter.  Having just lost my job, and because it was with a company of under 20 people, I can only do COBRA for 3 months, then I'm thrown on the trash heap with all the other Americans with no coverage because I'm uninsurable.  I only have to stay relatively healthy for 9 months of no insurance, probably taking half my meds because I won't be able to afford them, then I'm on Medicare - if I live that long.  My British friends gripe sometimes about National Health but they've basically had good service and they find it hard to believe the mess that is US health care...


Themis, go to pointsofcare.com and sign up for their free prescription discount card. I don't have insurance either since I was downsized in February 2008 and I am on heart medication. The card has saved me a fortune and most pharmacies take it.

LoP

#39 Themis

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:29 AM

View PostLover of Purple, on Dec 17 2009, 10:56 AM, said:

View PostThemis, on Dec 16 2009, 08:34 PM, said:

View PostEnkephalen, on Dec 17 2009, 04:14 AM, said:

^^But those groups are Democrats -- where does blaming the Republicans come into the picture as blocking the healthcare plan?


Because the Republicans won't vote for it, almost "just because."  If a few Democrats also balk, there goes the majority.  (Palisade beat me to it.)

I'm with Lin - don't allow any tax money to pay for insurance for elected officials.  Though since so many of them are rolling in money, it probably wouldn't matter.  Having just lost my job, and because it was with a company of under 20 people, I can only do COBRA for 3 months, then I'm thrown on the trash heap with all the other Americans with no coverage because I'm uninsurable.  I only have to stay relatively healthy for 9 months of no insurance, probably taking half my meds because I won't be able to afford them, then I'm on Medicare - if I live that long.  My British friends gripe sometimes about National Health but they've basically had good service and they find it hard to believe the mess that is US health care...


Themis, go to pointsofcare.com and sign up for their free prescription discount card. I don't have insurance either since I was downsized in February 2008 and I am on heart medication. The card has saved me a fortune and most pharmacies take it.

LoP

Thanks!!!  I can do Cobra for 3 months (only $168 - I can actually afford it) but the first of March I'm headed straight there for April!  The state insurance rep also told me to start contacting them the first of March to see what's available - right now the Tennessee plans for the uninsured aren't accepting new people...
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#40 Nittany Lioness

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 09:10 AM

Reid is threatening to get this to vote on Christmas Eve.  What a coward.  He knows this is unpalatable to the american public and so has to sneak this monstrosity through while the nation's attention is focused on family.
It'll be - stop the debate, vote, ... pass the gravy!  The democrats in charge are ramrodding this country into a socialistic disaster.  They are out of control.

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