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Dems Mull Dropping Medicare Expansion

Medicare Expansion 2009

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#41 Balderdash

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 10:22 AM

View PostNittany Lioness, on Dec 17 2009, 07:10 AM, said:

Reid is threatening to get this to vote on Christmas Eve.  What a coward.  He knows this is unpalatable to the american public and so has to sneak this monstrosity through while the nation's attention is focused on family.
It'll be - stop the debate, vote, ... pass the gravy!  The democrats in charge are ramrodding this country into a socialistic disaster.  They are out of control.

Socialist disaster?!?!  Where?  How?  Stop with the Republican scare tactics, there are people in this very thread that need this "Socialist Disaster."  My god, we're getting nothing, no public option, no being able to buy into Medicare, WTF is Socialist?  Explain!

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#42 Nick

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:50 AM

View PostNittany Lioness, on Dec 17 2009, 09:10 AM, said:

Reid is threatening to get this to vote on Christmas Eve.  What a coward.  He knows this is unpalatable to the american public and so has to sneak this monstrosity through while the nation's attention is focused on family.
It'll be - stop the debate, vote, ... pass the gravy!  The democrats in charge are ramrodding this country into a socialistic disaster.  They are out of control.

*If only* this was socialist healthcare.

The closest thing to socialism I see is barely-hidden corporate welfare for the already cash-flush insurance industry.

You speak of fears over government-run health insurance, but again I say (longingly) *If only!*

What we have instead is an insurance-company-run government.

Edited by Nick, 17 December 2009 - 11:52 AM.


#43 NeuralClone

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:02 PM

View PostPalisade, on Dec 16 2009, 11:17 PM, said:

^ All the Republicans in the Senate (with the possible exception of Olympia Snowe) will vote against it so to guarantee 60 votes, every Democrat + Lieberman (an independent) has to vote for it.
Olympia Snowe may not be well-liked by the Republican Party because she speaks her mind and is an independent thinker (amusingly, she doesn't care what the GOP thinks of her). But she isn't stupid. And it'd be stupid if she signed this embarrassment of a healthcare bill. I don't think many Mainers would approve of her voting for this. I don't know this for a fact since I thought we'd pass the gay marriage law. And look how that turned out. But if there's one thing she knows well, it's Maine and what we find important.

View PostNick, on Dec 17 2009, 11:50 AM, said:

What we have instead is an insurance-company-run government.
Yup. And that's much, MUCH worse.

Edited by NeuralClone, 17 December 2009 - 01:03 PM.

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#44 Godeskian

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:15 PM

Themis, like LoP I'll keep you in my thoughts.

As for the rest of it, maybe the US would be better off with socialised healthcare. Frankly, the system you have at the moment is a joke unless you;re wealthy or employed

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#45 Palisades

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:22 PM

^ Sorry, I don't trust Congress nearly enough for that.
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#46 NeuralClone

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:27 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Dec 17 2009, 01:15 PM, said:

Themis, like LoP I'll keep you in my thoughts.

As for the rest of it, maybe the US would be better off with socialised healthcare. Frankly, the system you have at the moment is a joke unless you;re wealthy or employed
But...that's socialist! We can't take ideas from other systems or ideologies. Our government and our people need to be slaves to big corporations. It's the American way! :sarcasm:

I completely agree. Our current system is a joke. Personally, I think we need to take a good hard look at Japan's healthcare system.

Edited by NeuralClone, 17 December 2009 - 01:29 PM.

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#47 Rhea

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:42 PM

^I find that amusing since the people who've screwed up this bill are the Republicans, first of all, who'd rather die rather than vote for anything proposed by the Dems - they don't want Obama to get credit for anything if they can help it. I blame most of all the moderates like Liebermann and Snow who've held the vote in their hands and who've gladly helped denude it of any meaningful attributes.

Starting again from scratch won't help because the same people who torpedoed it the first time will be able, willing, and ready to castrate it a second time.

Most of all I blame the people who act like fearmongers every time the single payer option in on the table. Socialism! The elderly will die! b*llsh*t! (oh, wait, that's me :p)

My brother has moved to Canada and is eagerly awaiting the time when they can become part of the Canadian single payer system because he's sick of ours (and he's a Republican). That tells me that many Americans on both sides of the aisle want meaningful health coverage - it's their stupidass congressmen and senators playing their pissing contests that have screwed up one of the most badly needed
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#48 Nick

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 03:27 PM

It's more than that.  The Republicans are against anything passing, that's a given, but it's entirely within the whole of the Democratic Caucus's power to pass whatever legislation they want.

The problem folks are the bought and paid for Democratic Senators (and Lieberman).  Lieberman is of course a complete and total douche, but that's to be expected of him.

The real damage was done this summer by Max Baucus in committee, imo.

But it ain't over yet.  We might wind up being surprised.

Edited by Nick, 17 December 2009 - 03:27 PM.


#49 Themis

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:47 PM

View PostNick, on Dec 17 2009, 08:27 PM, said:

But it ain't over yet.  We might wind up being surprised.

Only if there's a health care Santa...  More's the pity.
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#50 Rhea

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:49 PM

^ :D There's an image I need to get out of my head.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
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#51 Palisades

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:58 PM

Nick said:

But it ain't over yet. We might wind up being surprised.

AFAIK, there are still 40 Republicans in the Senate. So barring reconciliation -- which Reid thus far seems unwilling to use and which is intended as a last resort for getting budgets through the Senate, the health care bill is dead if either Olympia Snowe or Lieberman decide that filibustering the bill is better than letting this horrible piece of legislation pass.

From what I've read, the thing going on with all the Republican amendments is they're trying to get a couple moderate Democrats / Blue Dogs to change sides to provide extra insurance (in case Lieberman or Snowe don't join the filibuster) and to provide some extra political cover.

Edit: fixed error pointed out by Gambler

Edited by Palisade, 18 December 2009 - 12:24 AM.

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#52 Gambler

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 09:40 PM

View PostPalisade, on Dec 17 2009, 05:58 PM, said:

Nick said:

But it ain't over yet. We might wind up being surprised.

AFAIK, there are still 60 Republicans in the Senate*. So barring reconciliation -- which Reid thus far seems unwilling to use and which is intended as a last resort for getting budgets through the Senate, the health care bill is dead if either Olympia Snowe or Lieberman decide that filibustering the bill is better than letting this horrible piece of legislation pass.

From what I've read, the thing going on with all the Republican amendments is they're trying to get a couple moderate Democrats / Blue Dogs to change sides to provide extra insurance (in case Lieberman or Snowe don't join the filibuster) and to provide some extra political cover.

*Bolding by Gambler.


Actually, there are 40 Republican Senators.

#53 Palisades

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 12:25 AM

^ Thanks. I've fixed the original post.

Edit: Also, it would take both Olympia Snowe AND Lieberman filibustering to kill the bill.

Edited by Palisade, 20 December 2009 - 12:25 AM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#54 Captain Jack

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 03:59 AM

Here is a link to a comparison between the House and Senate versions:

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/93274
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