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Six Republican Ideas in the Health Care Bill

Health Care 2010 Republican ideas

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#21 G1223

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 01:56 PM

View PostLover of Purple, on Feb 9 2010, 01:22 PM, said:

Be carefull G, constantly posting your hatrid of the President in so many threads could be seen as spamming. Just a friendly alert.

I don't hate the President, I just disagree with most of his policies but he still is the President. To state otherwise is to disrespect the office and I will not do that. So he is my President even though I didn't vote for him, until the next election anyway and then we will see. ;)

LoP


Translation I must say Ogodma is great?  I guess free speech is for Liberals and not for others.

Welcome to Animal Farm and all hail LOP replacing Napoleon as all are equal some are more so than others.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

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If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

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#22 Gambler

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 01:58 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 9 2010, 10:56 AM, said:

View PostLover of Purple, on Feb 9 2010, 01:22 PM, said:

Be carefull G, constantly posting your hatrid of the President in so many threads could be seen as spamming. Just a friendly alert.

I don't hate the President, I just disagree with most of his policies but he still is the President. To state otherwise is to disrespect the office and I will not do that. So he is my President even though I didn't vote for him, until the next election anyway and then we will see. ;)

LoP


Translation I must say Ogodma is great?  I guess free speech is for Liberals and not for others.

Welcome to Animal Farm and all hail LOP replacing Napoleon as all are equal some are more so than others.

OFFS!

#23 Balderdash

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:03 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 9 2010, 11:56 AM, said:

View PostLover of Purple, on Feb 9 2010, 01:22 PM, said:

Be carefull G, constantly posting your hatrid of the President in so many threads could be seen as spamming. Just a friendly alert.

I don't hate the President, I just disagree with most of his policies but he still is the President. To state otherwise is to disrespect the office and I will not do that. So he is my President even though I didn't vote for him, until the next election anyway and then we will see. ;)

LoP


Translation I must say Ogodma is great?  I guess free speech is for Liberals and not for others.

Welcome to Animal Farm and all hail LOP replacing Napoleon as all are equal some are more so than others.


Your "translator" is clearly broken.  :dontgetit:

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



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#24 Lover of Purple

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:06 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 9 2010, 10:56 AM, said:

View PostLover of Purple, on Feb 9 2010, 01:22 PM, said:

Be carefull G, constantly posting your hatrid of the President in so many threads could be seen as spamming. Just a friendly alert.

I don't hate the President, I just disagree with most of his policies but he still is the President. To state otherwise is to disrespect the office and I will not do that. So he is my President even though I didn't vote for him, until the next election anyway and then we will see. ;)

LoP


Translation I must say Ogodma is great?  I guess free speech is for Liberals and not for others.

Welcome to Animal Farm and all hail LOP replacing Napoleon as all are equal some are more so than others.


Come off it G, you know better than that. I never said you had to say Obama is great, I just reminded you that your posting the same thing in almost any thread that speaks of the President COULD be seen as spamming. But ignore a friendly warning, mouth off and draw a warning. See if I care any more.

Napoleon? So now you even hate me? Good grief man, look at how your actions have become so much like what you claim others are doing! The saying goes: Be carefull of your hate or you will become that which you despise.

LoP

#25 G1223

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:07 PM

I am sorry my friend but this comes from being told I must accept that snake oil salesman for what others want him to be.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

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#26 Raeven

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:08 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 9 2010, 06:56 PM, said:

View PostLover of Purple, on Feb 9 2010, 01:22 PM, said:

Be carefull G, constantly posting your hatrid of the President in so many threads could be seen as spamming. Just a friendly alert.

I don't hate the President, I just disagree with most of his policies but he still is the President. To state otherwise is to disrespect the office and I will not do that. So he is my President even though I didn't vote for him, until the next election anyway and then we will see. ;)

LoP


Translation I must say Ogodma is great?  I guess free speech is for Liberals and not for others.

Welcome to Animal Farm and all hail LOP replacing Napoleon as all are equal some are more so than others.

That is not what LoP is saying and if you had read his post you would see that.

#27 Lover of Purple

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:19 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 9 2010, 11:07 AM, said:

I am sorry my friend but this comes from being told I must accept that snake oil salesman for what others want him to be.


Oh, come on G! I happen to respect the office more than I will dislike the person doing the job. I never said you had to respect the office or the person. My only remark to you was to try and help you avoid a possible spamming warning and you dump on me. Does your hatrid run so deep that you see this kind of stuff everywhere?

Besides G the way you try and get you points across only causes the people you want to reach turn off their ability to listen clearly (maybe that is what you want, I don't know). Besides, all of the snarkiness will not change who the President is or what he does. I expect this November and 2012 will do that.

I don't even know why I am trying any more. Politics gives me a headache anyway.

LoP

#28 G1223

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:38 PM

I am being told by Omega I must accept this great leader as my Preisdent.  So I am goign to do that so you will have no more spam issues.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#29 Dev F

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:43 PM

Ah, typical OT. QueenTiye's good-faith attempt to start a genuine political discussion ("Hey, what do you make of the fact that the current version of the Senate health care bill seems to incorporate six important Republican ideas?") is totally derailed by incoherent posturing that actively ignores the substance of the original question ("How dare that bastard Obama not incorporate these wonderful Republican ideas into his evil socialist health care bill! And also Obama is not my president!").

No amount of moderation can save this place if folks insist on talking past each other instead of actually listening to what their fellow posters are saying.

#30 Lover of Purple

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:47 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 9 2010, 11:38 AM, said:

I am being told by Omega I must accept this great leader as my Preisdent.  So I am goign to do that so you will have no more spam issues.


Come on G, that is not what I meant and you know it. Now you are trying to twist what I posted around to "prove" youself. And how did Omega say you MUST accept Obama as your president? He explained his view and he feels strongly about his view as you do about yours, but I see no such "you must accept what I believe" from him. I said I do only because of the office, you can feel different. My remark was, again, only to make you aware of posting over and over again how you hate Obama COULD be seen as spam and basically to be carefull. See, I know your tact on this, you hope to make remarks as you post how you have to say Obama is (you president/great.you pick the remark) and then point out how LoP forced you with threats os a spam warning. Let this post show, I DID NO SUCH THING.

Accept the President or don't, I don't care it is your right.

LoP

#31 SparkyCola

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 03:54 PM

This thread has gone totally off the rails. I'd like to get it back on track- so here's a cool-it to remind everyone that it's best to walk away from a thread and post later if you feel angry or frustrated. All posts from henceforth need to be civil and respectful. Ideally they should be calm, collected, and thought through to at least some extent. Helpful to the thread as a whole. I know we can do this...

/images/Stop.png

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Issued by Sparky

Back to the topic at hand...

Quote

# And finally, we shouldn't forget the compromises that have been the most painful for Democrats, and the most substantive. This is a private-market plan.

Could someone explain this in a touch more depth? Doesn't this kind of undermine the point of the whole thing in the first place? :eh:

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#32 Balderdash

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 03:59 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on Feb 9 2010, 01:54 PM, said:

This thread has gone totally off the rails. I'd like to get it back on track- so here's a cool-it to remind everyone that it's best to walk away from a thread and post later if you feel angry or frustrated. All posts from henceforth need to be civil and respectful. Ideally they should be calm, collected, and thought through to at least some extent. Helpful to the thread as a whole. I know we can do this...

/images/Stop.png

Sparky


Issued by Cool thyselves

Back to the topic at hand...

Quote

# And finally, we shouldn't forget the compromises that have been the most painful for Democrats, and the most substantive. This is a private-market plan.

Could someone explain this in a touch more depth? Doesn't this kind of undermine the point of the whole thing in the first place? :eh:

Sparky

That's why actual liberals are pretty pissed off at what has emerged.  There are some good things though and I think that we should start with that and hopefully a better plan will come out of all of this.  Hope so anyway.

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#33 Lin731

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 05:34 PM

Quote

Could someone explain this in a touch more depth? Doesn't this kind of undermine the point of the whole thing in the first place?  

Sparky

The arguement was that offering a government option for healthcare would undermine private insurance companies and thereby erode company sponsored healthcare (aka...why should we offer it when we can dump it and let the government pick our employees up).

The other side of the arguement is that this "For profit" approach to healthcare leaves millions (and growing yearly) numbers of American's without healthcare coverage of any sort and creates zero incentive for insurance companies to improve their coverage policies and pricing. Hope that helps.
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#34 Cait

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:29 PM

View PostOmega, on Feb 9 2010, 06:06 AM, said:

Okay.  I'm tired of this.


You're not the only one.  Those of us in the middle and who actually identify as Independents are also called "Liberals" in the negative way-not the good way.  An active segment on the board dismisses your claim listens. You're either wailing like a banshee against Obama or you're the enemy.

Hell, LoP, who self-describes himself as a Conservative is often lobed into the "evil liberal" category, because he isn't a loud conservative.  Many, and I od mean many here on EI are fiscal conservatives, anti-gun control, pro life, and believe in some entitlement programs.  But, we're not moderates.  We're not Independents, we're part of the problem.

It's always surprising to me, considering how important Independents and Moderates are to each election, that we're considered with such disdain.   News flash for all the Liberals and Conservatives who think calling us names is the right thing to do--Try winning an election without us.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
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#35 Cait

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:36 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 9 2010, 10:56 AM, said:

View PostLover of Purple, on Feb 9 2010, 01:22 PM, said:

Be carefull G, constantly posting your hatrid of the President in so many threads could be seen as spamming. Just a friendly alert.

I don't hate the President, I just disagree with most of his policies but he still is the President. To state otherwise is to disrespect the office and I will not do that. So he is my President even though I didn't vote for him, until the next election anyway and then we will see. ;)

LoP


Translation I must say Ogodma is great?  I guess free speech is for Liberals and not for others.

Welcome to Animal Farm and all hail LOP replacing Napoleon as all are equal some are more so than others.


Oops, I didn't see the "Cool it"  Sorry.

Edited by Certifiably Cait, 09 February 2010 - 06:40 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#36 Vapor Trails

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:18 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on Feb 9 2010, 03:54 PM, said:

This thread has gone totally off the rails. I'd like to get it back on track- so here's a cool-it to remind everyone that it's best to walk away from a thread and post later if you feel angry or frustrated. All posts from henceforth need to be civil and respectful. Ideally they should be calm, collected, and thought through to at least some extent. Helpful to the thread as a whole. I know we can do this...

:howling: :headshake:

"We"? Who is this "we" you speak of? That's a serious question. Some people are capable of disagreeing strongly, while at least taking time to consider how the opposing party views things. And in the end, there is still a measure of respect between bot parties.

And there are those that just can't do it-no matter HOW many times they are called on it. A leopard can't change its spots.

That's why I've given up all pretense of friendliness and civility with these particular folks. It's best to cut them off completely. Hence-the ignore button. And the few people I have on ignore/PM block will stay there until the sun becomes a black cinder.

It's just not worth it. Life is too short.
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#37 Captain Jack

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 12:13 AM

View PostG1223, on Feb 9 2010, 01:37 AM, said:

Well consider how they helped that banking crisis along. Makes you wonder were they looking to carry out a plan or was simple greed. My first idea is jump at greed. Because it explains a lot and explains why some of them did it but look at the people a lot of folks in the administration took inspiration from. People who want to TAKE from the rich and give it to the poor. I mean not what I think they want but what they say. Van Jones who was suppose to be  another of these Czars. Gave a speech where he talks openly about taking from those that have the means and giving to those who do not.

There is a lot of thought behind this. And I can say I think America is starting to wake up.

But back to the banking mess. Look at who was on the Congressional Banking Commitee. Chris Dodd who got direct loan from Lending Tree but nothing wrong there. He just "Happened" to get a LOWER rate than others. Dodd was one who pushed hard to have the Banking Restrictions removed by Clinton.

But to hear the Dems in the Congress and the White House it was Bush who did all this. Mr. Dodd would never have supported anything like this. ANd yet it was Bush who asked for a closer eye to be taken with FreddyMac and Fannie May. And Dodd who said none was needed.

How much are we STILL pumping into those bottomless holes?

It was also under Clinton that the banks were de-regulated.


View PostOmega, on Feb 9 2010, 05:12 AM, said:

View PostG1223, on Feb 9 2010, 04:32 AM, said:

Yet your President has said Republicans do not offer anything.

The Democrats have apparently accepted all the Republicans' proposals, the Republicans seemingly have no more ideas, and yet obstruct anyway.  So why is that not a fair statement?

Believe me, they've been resisting the Republican ideas from the get-go.  They thought they could ram-rod THEIR HC bill down American's throats, but found out that even with bribing Louisiana and Nebraska, that their bill was not going to come to fruition the way they wanted it to be.  Now, it is damage control. They feel that they have to do something to get some kind of HC plan passed.  And they reluctantly are taking notice that a lot of people are not exactly fans of the 2,000+ page bill Reid shoved through the Senate.  So, right now, they've got nothing.  That is, except for what the Republicans have been trying to put forth for consideration from the beginning, but was ignored by Democrats.  They refused to even believe those proposals existed and tried to make the Republicans look like nothing more than a bunch on do-nothing no-sayers and enemies of the American people.  They're not.  And those proposals prove that.  Now, they're finally looking at them I suppose (if they're serious about them that is), because they have very little to work with right now, and November elections are coming.


View PostOmega, on Feb 9 2010, 08:33 AM, said:

I disagreed with Bush's policies, and I disagree with Obama's policies.  We can disagree on policy without ceasing to be Americans.  But you can't reject the President and remain in favor of national unity.

I am the same way as you.  I have disagreed with both Obama and Bush on a number of occaisions.  We can disagree about policy without ceasing to be Americans.  But you CAN reject the President and remain in favor of national unity when you feel that the President is a danger to that unity.  Bush divided the nation in the end.  And Obama, through smooth talking found a way to get people on his side.  But now, when words he spoke require action, we are getting completely different results.  He can not do what he says he will do, or he has changed what he will do from what he said he will do, or he wasn't truthful of what he said he was going to do.  Which ones of those apply depend on what the subject matter is.  In terms of HC, I think most of the nation (including republicans) feels that HC needs to be fixed.  But what we have been seeing in Congress in the last few months was not what people thought was going to happen.  So now, Obama has re-divided people, and it is worse now than before.  People are not happy with how huge government reach has become.  Threatening banks, taking over car companies, wanting to control 1/6th of the nation's economy, playing games with taxes.  He says he won't raise taxes, but at the same time, he wants to let the tax cuts under Bush expire.  He'll raise taxes on companies, who will simply pass the expense to consumers.  This is not a good formula, and it is just the tip of the iceberg.

Quote

My side is that of a unified America.  If that's not your side, fine.  But if all your intention is to be divisive and hurt this country just to make a point, then you are not any sort of hero, and you are doing no sort of good.

I think we all want a unifed America.  I know it doesn't seem like it at times because we're all so passionate.  But we do care about the country, whether we agree or disagree on how to do things.  It's not G's intention or mine to be "divisive".  That was done by politicians who are NOT doing their jobs representing the people and working FOR the people.  They're working for themselves for their own benifit, and doing it with a smile on their faces, saying they are here for us, but giving a big fat middle finger to us citizens when the camera's aren't rolling.

Sometimes when you feel that things are so bad, and you want to show people what you think is going on, you have to play the "villain".  By that, I mean, you have to tell people what they don't want to hear (because they want to believe that things WILL be better and that they didn't vote for the wrong person) because they have to break free from their ideals and come back to reality and face the situation head on.  Hope that makes sense.  You have to hold EVERY politician accountable.  Whether you like that politician or not, you have to keep an eye on them and make sure they do what you voted them into office to do.  No favorites, or excuses.

View PostLover of Purple, on Feb 9 2010, 10:22 AM, said:

Be carefull G, constantly posting your hatrid of the President in so many threads could be seen as spamming. Just a friendly alert.

I don't hate the President, I just disagree with most of his policies but he still is the President. To state otherwise is to disrespect the office and I will not do that. So he is my President even though I didn't vote for him, until the next election anyway and then we will see. ;)

LoP

Not to mention, this IS the internet.  Big Brother does stroll around, even to little boards like EI.  Be careful how you post about politial figures.

I don't hate the President either.  Like you, I disagree with most of his policies.  If one is not happy with the job the President is doing, and he/she ignores the people, then next election, we elect someone else.  Right now, he's not off to a good start.
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#38 obsidianstorm13

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 04:53 AM

I would like to take this time to point out that Obama is ONE guy.  He can't MAKE legislation.  He can propose it and someone ELSE can bring it before Congress, he can even address Congress.  He can Veto bills which is the crux of the Presidential office.  That's it.  So I don't buy that "he isn't doing anything" line.  I just really have a problem with the idea that he is making all of these horrible decisions all by himself because he's not.  I'm sure there are other things going on with other people.  Again, should he fire some of his staff?  Probably.  Should do less talking and more walking... absolutely.  But he can only walk so far before our Checks and Balances system gets in the way.(Note:  I'm not saying this is a bad thing; I think Checks and Balances is GOOD) I just feel like people lose sight of these things.

I mean did people really think that Obama was going to be able to pass the Health Care Bill that easily, when Hillary tried and FAILED miserably.  He's gotten a lot farther than she did.

#39 Captain Jack

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 05:50 AM

View Postobisidianstorm13, on Feb 10 2010, 01:53 AM, said:

I would like to take this time to point out that Obama is ONE guy.  He can't MAKE legislation.  He can propose it and someone ELSE can bring it before Congress, he can even address Congress.  He can Veto bills which is the crux of the Presidential office.  That's it.  So I don't buy that "he isn't doing anything" line.  I just really have a problem with the idea that he is making all of these horrible decisions all by himself because he's not.  I'm sure there are other things going on with other people.  Again, should he fire some of his staff?  Probably.  Should do less talking and more walking... absolutely.  But he can only walk so far before our Checks and Balances system gets in the way.(Note:  I'm not saying this is a bad thing; I think Checks and Balances is GOOD) I just feel like people lose sight of these things.

I mean did people really think that Obama was going to be able to pass the Health Care Bill that easily, when Hillary tried and FAILED miserably.  He's gotten a lot farther than she did.

Perhaps I am not being clear on what I'm trying to say.  I agree that he is one guy, but he projects himself as being the one who does make the legislation.  He makes demands of what bills he wants on his desk to sign and when.  Like the HC bill.  He gave a deadline to Congress to have it ready for him before Christmas.  He threatened the Supreme Court not to over-turn McCain-Feingold and failed at getting his way on that as well.  There's a difference between motiviating and pushing.  And Obama not only pushes, but throws his weight around to the point where he things he can control everything from the Oval Office.  Look at his approach towards financial institutions, businesses, manufacturers, and the private sector as a whole.  Control, control, control.  That is not how things should be done.  They should be done how you just described, but it's not.  He IS making these decisions himself, and he's got the support of Pelosi and Reid kissing his feet.  And in regards to the HC bill, Obama and the Dems got a lot further than Hillary ever did.  It had a good chance of passing.

If anyone doesn't know about the pressure Obama put on the SC, here's a link to the entire article which is interesting in of itself
:

http://www.foxnews.c...test=latestnews

Quote

Obama then ends with a warning, saying that he will go to Congress to craft a “forceful response to this decision.”

That sounds like a threat. And every American should be worried when the president of the United States starts threatening the Supreme Court.

Regardless of whether anyone here supports or is against the verdict, my point is I don't like the way he approaches things, and I don't see much respect given to other branches of government or even to businesses for that matter.
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#40 G1223

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 07:16 AM

I keep thinking that Obomb is simply needing taken to task by the USSC. It needs tell congress that the Card Check Law violates the Right of Privacy which Roe V Wade made into existance.



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