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Six Republican Ideas in the Health Care Bill

Health Care 2010 Republican ideas

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#41 Balderdash

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:10 AM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 10 2010, 03:50 AM, said:

View Postobisidianstorm13, on Feb 10 2010, 01:53 AM, said:

I would like to take this time to point out that Obama is ONE guy.  He can't MAKE legislation.  He can propose it and someone ELSE can bring it before Congress, he can even address Congress.  He can Veto bills which is the crux of the Presidential office.  That's it.  So I don't buy that "he isn't doing anything" line.  I just really have a problem with the idea that he is making all of these horrible decisions all by himself because he's not.  I'm sure there are other things going on with other people.  Again, should he fire some of his staff?  Probably.  Should do less talking and more walking... absolutely.  But he can only walk so far before our Checks and Balances system gets in the way.(Note:  I'm not saying this is a bad thing; I think Checks and Balances is GOOD) I just feel like people lose sight of these things.

I mean did people really think that Obama was going to be able to pass the Health Care Bill that easily, when Hillary tried and FAILED miserably.  He's gotten a lot farther than she did.

Perhaps I am not being clear on what I'm trying to say.  I agree that he is one guy, but he projects himself as being the one who does make the legislation.  He makes demands of what bills he wants on his desk to sign and when.  Like the HC bill.  He gave a deadline to Congress to have it ready for him before Christmas.  He threatened the Supreme Court not to over-turn McCain-Feingold and failed at getting his way on that as well.  There's a difference between motiviating and pushing.  And Obama not only pushes, but throws his weight around to the point where he things he can control everything from the Oval Office.  Look at his approach towards financial institutions, businesses, manufacturers, and the private sector as a whole.  Control, control, control.  That is not how things should be done.  They should be done how you just described, but it's not.  He IS making these decisions himself, and he's got the support of Pelosi and Reid kissing his feet.  And in regards to the HC bill, Obama and the Dems got a lot further than Hillary ever did.  It had a good chance of passing.

If anyone doesn't know about the pressure Obama put on the SC, here's a link to the entire article which is interesting in of itself
:

http://www.foxnews.c...test=latestnews

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Obama then ends with a warning, saying that he will go to Congress to craft a "forceful response to this decision."

That sounds like a threat. And every American should be worried when the president of the United States starts threatening the Supreme Court.

Regardless of whether anyone here supports or is against the verdict, my point is I don't like the way he approaches things, and I don't see much respect given to other branches of government or even to businesses for that matter.


Jack, you're complaining about the President doing his job.  Every President tries to get his parties agenda met, that's part of his job.  He's supposed to be throwing his weight around.  And please try to find somewhere other than Fox to get your news and or opinion.  I'm snowed in here and while I have electricity I'm going to try and find you some conservative sites that may not lie to you as much as Fox does.  I can assure you that the Founding Fathers would probably not be pleased with the decision by the SC.  Lets worry about the real people's free speech and stop giving an entity (corporations) the same rights that we have.  We are the people of "For the people and by The People" not a corporation.

I'm trying to talk to you and I hope that you will try and listen without getting mad at me.  I don't agree with you but that's ok, you rarely agree with me.

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



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#42 Omega

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:33 AM

If you want good news, watch NewsHour, or download the podcasts.  Great stuff.

#43 G1223

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:40 AM

Or Blues Clues since both have a clear idea of peoples wants and needs.
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#44 Vapor Trails

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 10:29 AM

:headshake:

You know what?

I don't trust the Dems OR the Republicans to come through with any damned "health care" for the populace, whatever that is. I'll believe there is a reasonable FINAL version WHEN I SEE IT. Until then, everything else is smoke and mirrors.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: politicians-ALL OF THEM: DEMS AND REPUBLICANS ALIKE-I don't give a flying f**k WHO they are-are out FOR THEMSELVES, FIRST AND FOREMOST. Helping the population is SECONDARY-and ONLY if it means politicians keeping their cushy jobs. :glare:

The way some people latch onto a political party as if they were the answer to EVERYTHING is downright PATHETIC. :angry:

No wonder some folks get sick of OT. :barf: :yucky:

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#45 obsidianstorm13

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 10:39 AM

G:  I would rather watch Blues Clues 24/7 than have to watch 1 nanosecond of Fox news.  I would rather eat fried worms, sleep on a bed of needles etc.  If Fox news floats yer boat then more power to you but after having been subjected to multiple weeks of it, I will never willing watch it again.  At least Blue's Clues is somewhat educational if not fun to watch.
Beats Teletubbies any day. :D
Capt:  Maybe Obama does get pushy.  Maybe he shouldn't be.  Maybe he feels that he has to be to get things done.  <shrugs>  I will say asking Congress to have a finished bill on his desk by a certain time doesn't seem outlandish to me.  Deadlines are a good thing.  Why should Congress be treated differently than any other job.  Everyone has deadlines and things that need to be done; priorities if you will.  Congress gets PAID to look at bills and pass them and get them to the President, right?  I want them to do a good job, but I also want them to do it in a timely fashion.  I don't want them pussyfooting around.  Time is Money people.  Again, financial stuff isn't my forte... I don't know much about economics and fixing the economy, it's true.  I DO know that we tried not having the government involved in business affairs... that's how monopolies occurred in the 20's.  It's part of the reason why the Great Depression happened.  Complete deregulation IMO is not really a good idea simply because of those "few bad apples" ya know the ones who ruin it for everyone.  I don't think complete government control is good either.  I'd like to see something in the middle if at all possible.

#46 obsidianstorm13

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 10:51 AM

Analog Kid:  I hear the frustration but politics is one of those topics that gets people all sorts of riled.   I don't mind the strong political opinions; I find it interesting to hear all of the different ideas.  As long as no one preaches to me or gets mad that I won't change my opinions unless I THINK I should then I'm good.  

No offence to you; I really hope there is a decent politician somewhere.  Someone who does really want to fix their country for the better; who does put the needs of the people above the party line or their own personal needs/wants.  That's the optimist in me talking though.  

I think if people really want the Health care bill that badly... someone will organize a march and get down to Washington and refuse to leave until Congress gives in.  Let the real voice of ALL the people be heard.

#47 Vapor Trails

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 11:09 AM

View Postobisidianstorm13, on Feb 10 2010, 10:51 AM, said:

Analog Kid:  I hear the frustration but politics is one of those topics that gets people all sorts of riled.   I don't mind the strong political opinions; I find it interesting to hear all of the different ideas.  As long as no one preaches to me or gets mad that I won't change my opinions unless I THINK I should then I'm good.  

No offence to you; I really hope there is a decent politician somewhere.  Someone who does really want to fix their country for the better; who does put the needs of the people above the party line or their own personal needs/wants. That's the optimist in me talking though.  

I think if people really want the Health care bill that badly... someone will organize a march and get down to Washington and refuse to leave until Congress gives in.  Let the real voice of ALL the people be heard.

This thread, posts 9 & 10.

I must be honest-it is D-A-M-N-E-D hard for me to be an optimist these days. I've been through and seen WAY too much crap-particularly in the past 2 years. :( People have failed me TOO many times. :(
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#48 G1223

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 11:46 AM

View Postobisidianstorm13, on Feb 10 2010, 10:39 AM, said:

G:  I would rather watch Blues Clues 24/7 than have to watch 1 nanosecond of Fox news.  I would rather eat fried worms, sleep on a bed of needles etc.  If Fox news floats yer boat then more power to you but after having been subjected to multiple weeks of it, I will never willing watch it again.  At least Blue's Clues is somewhat educational if not fun to watch.


You like being spoon fed only one side of the story or one parties dogma? Oh wait that is true You avoid Fox News. I cannot think of a conservative I ever saw on CNN? I know that Propaganda Broadcast Services will trot out Pat Bucahann. They use him as a token Conservative and then lable him as a copy of why all Republicans are racists.

Watch O' Reily he has people on who are liberals who give the other sides views. And they are not tokens they are not muzzeled.

Simply put you do not watch it becaus eyou want to be told only what the liberals want you to hear.
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#49 Omega

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 11:52 AM

I don't watch it because it's crappy news.  News is not having two people who disagree yell at each other and talk over each other for two minutes, failing to provide any useful information at all.  That's a crappy daytime talk show that happens to be about current events.  Again, NewsHour.

#50 Vapor Trails

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 12:04 PM

View PostOmega, on Feb 10 2010, 11:52 AM, said:

I don't watch it because it's crappy news.  News is not having two people who disagree yell at each other and talk over each other for two minutes, failing to provide any useful information at all.  That's a crappy daytime talk show that happens to be about current events.  Again, NewsHour.

I listen to NPR every day. :cool:
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#51 Nick

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 12:31 PM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 8 2010, 11:51 PM, said:

1. "Let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines."

I've been a huge supporter of this from day 1.  This alone will reduce HC costs.  How?  Competition.  When you have competing companies, they lower their rates to be more appealing to people looking for policies.  Look at auto insurance. Works well.  And people have choices.  Win-win for consumers.

But by the same token, look at credit card companies.  This is one idea that sounds decent on the surface, but I don't think it's much of a choice between Blue Cross of Alabama and Blue Cross of Florida.  My fear is we'll wind up in the same boat we are w/ the credit card companies and they'll all incorporate in the states with the most lax consumer protections and screw us even more.

Quote

2.  "Allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do." This is the very purpose of the exchanges, as defined in Section 1312.

A sound option for those willing to participate.

I agree this is a sound option, and it's addressed in the Democratic plan.

Quote

3.  "Give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs." Section 1302 of the Senate bill does this directly.
"End junk lawsuits."

This is a frequent talking point from the Republicans . . . tort reform, tort reform, tort reform.  The problem with this is that so-called "junk lawsuits" make up a tiny fraction of health-care costs, and legitimate malpractice happens.  I'd rather let the courts decide whether a lawsuit is valid or frivolous.

Quote

4.  The tax break for employer-sponsored insurance.

This would help ease expense burdens on business and give them a chance to grow and prosper.  The healthier the business, the healthier the economy.

There are already tax breaks for employer provided insurance.  Do we need more?  Tax breaks are nice and all, but I don't support ANY tax breaks without a commiserate reduction in spending.  A huge chunk of the current deficit was caused by lopsided tax cuts--lowering taxes without cutting spending.

Quote

5.  And finally, we shouldn't forget the compromises that have been the most painful for Democrats, and the most substantive. This is a private-market plan.

Agreed.

Controlling things with an iron fist does not solve anything.  In fact, government run HC will not make it more affordable for many people.  The best solutions are often the most simple.  This "grand plan" of taking over hc because Big Brother knows better is a recipe for disaster.  And instead of a 2,000+ page bill most have no idea what the content is, we have one that would be a few pages long that is to the point and effective.  Not to mention all 5 proposals can be effective almost immediately instead of 4-5 years from now.  Less pages also means the bill is more green.  That last sentence was a joke.

The private market isn't working.  I'm willing to yield on getting a robust public option, but if we're leaving it in the private industry's court, then I want to see anti-trust exemptions removed.  Private Insurance companies are exempt from price fixing regulations.  Why compete when you can collude?  That isn't capitalism.

My ideal solution would be a very short and sweet bill--open up Medicare or Tri-Care to the general public & let people buy in to it.

#52 obsidianstorm13

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 12:50 PM

G:  I don't watch CNN.. I have always preferred my own local News channel:  I thought Channel two in Buffalo did a very decent job at reporting and remaining neutral.  If I want more national news I will glance NBC:  The Today Show (My mother is good friends with the late Tim Russert's sister.) I thought Today did an excellent job covering really good current affairs and such, although I wouldn't rely on them for politics.  Mostly I rely on print for political news.  I have also watched C-Span and wanted to shoot myself after a senator used wikipedia for primary source for his argument.  Other than that, the BBC does a good job as well.

#53 Captain Jack

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 01:13 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 10 2010, 05:40 AM, said:

Or Blues Clues since both have a clear idea of peoples wants and needs.

I LOVE Blues Clues!  ;)
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#54 Dev F

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 01:30 PM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 9 2010, 11:13 PM, said:

Believe me, they've been resisting the Republican ideas from the get-go.  They thought they could ram-rod THEIR HC bill down American's throats
Again, you're totally missing the substance of QT's original post, which was that six major Republican ideas are represented in the Senate's version of the health care bill. You already posted a response in which you talked about how great you thought these ideas were, so I'd think you'd be gratified by the fact that the Senate bill incorporated them, instead of acting like it's some dyed-in-the-wool liberal vision of health care reform.

#55 Captain Jack

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 02:55 PM

View PostBalderdash, on Feb 10 2010, 05:10 AM, said:

Jack, you're complaining about the President doing his job.  Every President tries to get his parties agenda met, that's part of his job.  He's supposed to be throwing his weight around.  And please try to find somewhere other than Fox to get your news and or opinion.  I'm snowed in here and while I have electricity I'm going to try and find you some conservative sites that may not lie to you as much as Fox does.  I can assure you that the Founding Fathers would probably not be pleased with the decision by the SC.  Lets worry about the real people's free speech and stop giving an entity (corporations) the same rights that we have.  We are the people of "For the people and by The People" not a corporation.

I'm trying to talk to you and I hope that you will try and listen without getting mad at me.  I don't agree with you but that's ok, you rarely agree with me.

I agree with what you're saying.  However, I feel he is throwing his weight around in a way that is more like demands, and it doesn't work this way.  You have to work with Congress, not order them around.  You don't get things done by making demands and setting deadlines that are not reasonable or feasable.  And I get my news for Yahoo, MSNBC, and various other sources, BTW.  I think we talked about that before in the past. ;)  I don't just go to "conservative" sites.  I'm sorry you're snowed in.  Winter has been rather brutal this year for the east coast and midwest areas.  And I agree with you on the free speech part.  But Obama failed to be effective in this because he approached it wrong.  You don't make threats to other people and within your own government body as POTUS.  He needs to understand that SC doesn't take orders from him like a king to his subjects.  And you can't go around threatening to "punish" them for it either.  That's how you make more enemies than friends.  And when I say "you", I don't mean you personally. :)  He's doing a great job getting a lot of folks angry with him because of it.
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#56 Captain Jack

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 02:58 PM

View PostDev F, on Feb 10 2010, 10:30 AM, said:

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 9 2010, 11:13 PM, said:

Believe me, they've been resisting the Republican ideas from the get-go.  They thought they could ram-rod THEIR HC bill down American's throats
Again, you're totally missing the substance of QT's original post, which was that six major Republican ideas are represented in the Senate's version of the health care bill. You already posted a response in which you talked about how great you thought these ideas were, so I'd think you'd be gratified by the fact that the Senate bill incorporated them, instead of acting like it's some dyed-in-the-wool liberal vision of health care reform.

I think QT can speak for herself.  Thank you.  And the fact is, Democrats HAVE resisted Republican ideas from the get go.  The House's version is void of anyy Republican proposals.  And the Senate version goes far beyond what Republicans want to see in the HC bill.  So, yeah, still very much resistant to look at the more simplistic and clear cut Republican approach to HC reform.
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#57 G1223

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 03:04 PM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 10 2010, 02:55 PM, said:

I agree with what you're saying.  However, I feel he is throwing his weight around in a way that is more like demands, and it doesn't work this way.  You have to work with Congress, not order them around.  You don't get things done by making demands and setting deadlines that are not reasonable or feasable.  And I get my news for Yahoo, MSNBC, and various other sources, BTW.  I think we talked about that before in the past. ;)  I don't just go to "conservative" sites.  I'm sorry you're snowed in.  Winter has been rather brutal this year for the east coast and midwest areas.  And I agree with you on the free speech part.  But Obama failed to be effective in this because he approached it wrong.  You don't make threats to other people and within your own government body as POTUS.  He needs to understand that SC doesn't take orders from him like a king to his subjects.  And you can't go around threatening to "punish" them for it either.  That's how you make more enemies than friends.  And when I say "you", I don't mean you personally. :)  He's doing a great job getting a lot of folks angry with him because of it.

Yes they are demands he is the Black President. Anything he wants should be given to him. All this petty deal making is taking away from his reign as King. I mean President.
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TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#58 Dev F

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 03:07 PM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 10 2010, 01:58 PM, said:

And the Senate version goes far beyond what Republicans want to see in the HC bill.  So, yeah, still very much resistant to look at the more simplistic and clear cut Republican approach to HC reform.
Of course the Senate bill goes beyond what the Republicans want. It also has to incorporate the things that the Democrats want, right?

Do you want the Democrats to compromise with the Republicans, or do you want them to give up all their own ideas and just do things the Republicans' way?

#59 Captain Jack

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 03:10 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 10 2010, 12:04 PM, said:

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 10 2010, 02:55 PM, said:

I agree with what you're saying.  However, I feel he is throwing his weight around in a way that is more like demands, and it doesn't work this way.  You have to work with Congress, not order them around.  You don't get things done by making demands and setting deadlines that are not reasonable or feasable.  And I get my news for Yahoo, MSNBC, and various other sources, BTW.  I think we talked about that before in the past. ;)  I don't just go to "conservative" sites.  I'm sorry you're snowed in.  Winter has been rather brutal this year for the east coast and midwest areas.  And I agree with you on the free speech part.  But Obama failed to be effective in this because he approached it wrong.  You don't make threats to other people and within your own government body as POTUS.  He needs to understand that SC doesn't take orders from him like a king to his subjects.  And you can't go around threatening to "punish" them for it either.  That's how you make more enemies than friends.  And when I say "you", I don't mean you personally. :)  He's doing a great job getting a lot of folks angry with him because of it.

Yes they are demands he is the Black President. Anything he wants should be given to him. All this petty deal making is taking away from his reign as King. I mean President.

More like he is the "Chosen One".  Bill Clinton was the first "black President", some would say.  I really don't factor in race, or color, I just want a person to do he/her job.  And I am very critical with politicians whose jobs are to serve the people and LISTEN to the people.  And with the way he orders others around him, and threatens companies and such, he does seem to act more like a king than a PotUS.
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#60 Captain Jack

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 03:13 PM

View PostDev F, on Feb 10 2010, 12:07 PM, said:

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 10 2010, 01:58 PM, said:

And the Senate version goes far beyond what Republicans want to see in the HC bill.  So, yeah, still very much resistant to look at the more simplistic and clear cut Republican approach to HC reform.
Of course the Senate bill goes beyond what the Republicans want. It also has to incorporate the things that the Democrats want, right?

Yeah, which is over 2,000 pages of it. ;)

Quote

Do you want the Democrats to compromise with the Republicans, or do you want them to give up all their own ideas and just do things the Republicans' way?

I want them to compromise with Republicans and not create bills the size of encyclopedias behind locked doors keeping Republicans in the dark until the darn thing has been written and shoved in their faces.  There has been no collaboration.  Pelosi and her cronies penned it on their own, as did Reid without Republican input.  Republicans had to fight to get some of their ideas in there.  But it is far from compromise.  It's democrat domination.
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