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Six Republican Ideas in the Health Care Bill

Health Care 2010 Republican ideas

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#61 Lin731

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 03:56 PM

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I want them to compromise with Republicans and not create bills the size of encyclopedias behind locked doors keeping Republicans in the dark until the darn thing has been written and shoved in their faces. There has been no collaboration. Pelosi and her cronies penned it on their own, as did Reid without Republican input. Republicans had to fight to get some of their ideas in there. But it is far from compromise. It's democrat domination

They've tried to compromise and as QT pointed out, for all the ruckus that Republican suggestions were ignored, they weren't. Kindly show me the reams of Republican legislation that WASN'T a phonebook thick. Legislation (unfortunate as it is) tends to be 100's and sometimes thousands of pages long. When talking about something as complex as healthcare legislation, you expected it to be what? 100 pages? It appears republican legislators aren't interested in healthcare reform but seem more intent on killing any attempt at it. Compromise can't simply be caving in to Republican demands and I honestly haven't seen any give on the issue from that side at all. Personally we might as well shelve the notion because nothing that passes in this environment will be worth a tinkers damn, it was already compromised to death in hopes of pulling in some republican support (which still didn't happen and never will).

CaptainJack, what "input/compromise" are the Republicans looking for now? It seems to me that the gist of their idea of "compromise" is that they dictate the entire bill and anything less is "locking them out of the process" Here's an even better question, what compromises are they willing to make to benefit the millions of Americans with no healthcare coverage?
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#62 G1223

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 04:20 PM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 10 2010, 03:10 PM, said:

More like he is the "Chosen One".  Bill Clinton was the first "black President", some would say.  I really don't factor in race, or color, I just want a person to do he/her job.  And I am very critical with politicians whose jobs are to serve the people and LISTEN to the people.  And with the way he orders others around him, and threatens companies and such, he does seem to act more like a king than a PotUS.

Ah so you can almost forget that Obama is black. Is it because when he speaks he does not sound ethnic enough to tell or that he is not as dark skinned as say Harry Reid would expect of a black man.
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#63 QueenTiye

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 04:33 PM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 10 2010, 02:58 PM, said:

View PostDev F, on Feb 10 2010, 10:30 AM, said:

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 9 2010, 11:13 PM, said:

Believe me, they've been resisting the Republican ideas from the get-go.  They thought they could ram-rod THEIR HC bill down American's throats
Again, you're totally missing the substance of QT's original post, which was that six major Republican ideas are represented in the Senate's version of the health care bill. You already posted a response in which you talked about how great you thought these ideas were, so I'd think you'd be gratified by the fact that the Senate bill incorporated them, instead of acting like it's some dyed-in-the-wool liberal vision of health care reform.

I think QT can speak for herself.  Thank you.  And the fact is, Democrats HAVE resisted Republican ideas from the get go.  The House's version is void of anyy Republican proposals.  And the Senate version goes far beyond what Republicans want to see in the HC bill.  So, yeah, still very much resistant to look at the more simplistic and clear cut Republican approach to HC reform.


I can.  And, my point is - in our system of government, there's no such thing as a piece of legislation without compromise.  The bill that is the likeliest to become law if any of the bills do, contains 6 very key republican ideas.  And they are based (as the President has said) on Republicans bringing them forward.  AND, as the President said, some of the republican ideas were not ones he felt would work as written, but with tweaks, they could be made to work.  Similarly, some of the democratic ideas were put forward, and rejected, or tweaked.  

The outrage over health care reform is boiled down to the following:

1. The democrats aren't listening to republicans (false)
2. The republican ideas are being ignored (false)
3.  The bill goes farther than republicans want it to. (OF COURSE!)

If indeed republicans feel that democratic ideas are so anathema that they would rather kill any thing at all than to let any of those ideas get passed into law, then what's the point of trying to compromise? There can be no compromise, if the only compromise is "my way or the highway."  And in our government, "my way or the highway" usually means the highway wins.  

I'm independent, and I'm done talking about any of this. Period. I'm all done. But I will say this. It seems shameful to me that we are so easily divided, and so quick to make things all about republican/democrat, liberal/conservative, me/you, instead of seeing where OUR best interests lie.  So long as politicians can score points by dividing us, it seems that they will keep doing so.  But shame on us for letting them.

QT

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#64 G1223

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 04:47 PM

Well let's see how do you offer compromises when the door is locked? Or when discussion is had you stifle debate with guy with a stopwatch rather than let people discuss the issue.
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If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

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#65 Balderdash

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 04:58 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on Feb 10 2010, 02:33 PM, said:

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 10 2010, 02:58 PM, said:

View PostDev F, on Feb 10 2010, 10:30 AM, said:

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 9 2010, 11:13 PM, said:

Believe me, they've been resisting the Republican ideas from the get-go.  They thought they could ram-rod THEIR HC bill down American's throats
Again, you're totally missing the substance of QT's original post, which was that six major Republican ideas are represented in the Senate's version of the health care bill. You already posted a response in which you talked about how great you thought these ideas were, so I'd think you'd be gratified by the fact that the Senate bill incorporated them, instead of acting like it's some dyed-in-the-wool liberal vision of health care reform.

I think QT can speak for herself.  Thank you.  And the fact is, Democrats HAVE resisted Republican ideas from the get go.  The House's version is void of anyy Republican proposals.  And the Senate version goes far beyond what Republicans want to see in the HC bill.  So, yeah, still very much resistant to look at the more simplistic and clear cut Republican approach to HC reform.


I can.  And, my point is - in our system of government, there's no such thing as a piece of legislation without compromise.  The bill that is the likeliest to become law if any of the bills do, contains 6 very key republican ideas.  And they are based (as the President has said) on Republicans bringing them forward.  AND, as the President said, some of the republican ideas were not ones he felt would work as written, but with tweaks, they could be made to work.  Similarly, some of the democratic ideas were put forward, and rejected, or tweaked.  

The outrage over health care reform is boiled down to the following:

1. The democrats aren't listening to republicans (false)
2. The republican ideas are being ignored (false)
3.  The bill goes farther than republicans want it to. (OF COURSE!)

If indeed republicans feel that democratic ideas are so anathema that they would rather kill any thing at all than to let any of those ideas get passed into law, then what's the point of trying to compromise? There can be no compromise, if the only compromise is "my way or the highway."  And in our government, "my way or the highway" usually means the highway wins.  

I'm independent, and I'm done talking about any of this. Period. I'm all done. But I will say this. It seems shameful to me that we are so easily divided, and so quick to make things all about republican/democrat, liberal/conservative, me/you, instead of seeing where OUR best interests lie.  So long as politicians can score points by dividing us, it seems that they will keep doing so.  But shame on us for letting them.

QT

Right on, all of it but especially your last paragraph.

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#66 G1223

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 07:48 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on Feb 10 2010, 04:33 PM, said:

I'm independent, and I'm done talking about any of this. Period. I'm all done. But I will say this. It seems shameful to me that we are so easily divided, and so quick to make things all about republican/democrat, liberal/conservative, me/you, instead of seeing where OUR best interests lie.  So long as politicians can score points by dividing us, it seems that they will keep doing so.  But shame on us for letting them.

QT


Sorry but when one side has all the toys and refuses to share. People do not get to play with them. This was not the republicans locking doors and keeping democrats out. Your President had meetings with key democrats and never invited republican laeders to talk about the issue. He did not need to he had a super majority.  It was just that some in his party saw the town hall meetings other ran into and knew it would spell their end of public office to go along with the President and his plans.

Ask Sen. Nelson how one gets service in places to eat in his hometown? I am not certain he can tell you. It seems after taking the bribe to vote the way he did he was booed out a pizza parlor he was known to visit before he was a Senator. And if you look at the polls he is being shown the door.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#67 Cait

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:25 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 10 2010, 04:48 PM, said:

Sorry but when one side has all the toys and refuses to share. People do not get to play with them. This was not the republicans locking doors and keeping democrats out.

Maybe if Republicans had taken better care of the "toys" when it was their turn to watch the shop, we'd all feel better about sharing them now.  Did you ever think of that?  Democrats didn't sweep into office because Obama could smile and use a teleprompter.   They came into office because the GOP had done a bad job.  


And Democrats will exit power for the same reason Republicans did--they screwed up.  Political parties are more than bastion's of ideologies.  They are supposed to govern.  Remember that when you begin pointing a finger-  Every sweep of one party into or out of office amounted to someone, some where, doing a BAD job.

I don't see any leadership so far coming from the GOP.  All I see is waiting around for Obama to screw the pooch.  Which as it turns out isn't a bad idea, but it doesn't show that the GOP has learned any lessons about how they screwed up and broke all our toys.  It only shows that they had a good strategy to get back in office.

Edited by Certifiably Cait, 10 February 2010 - 08:27 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#68 Lin731

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:29 PM

Quote

Sorry but when one side has all the toys and refuses to share. People do not get to play with them. This was not the republicans locking doors and keeping democrats out. Your President had meetings with key democrats and never invited republican laeders to talk about the issue. He did not need to he had a super majority. It was just that some in his party saw the town hall meetings other ran into and knew it would spell their end of public office to go along with the President and his plans.

Did you actually read all of QT post or mine? They did incorporate Republican ideas and still no support and still the claims of being shut out of the process when they weren't shut out of it. Their input by and large has been to keep moving the marker for when they'll support anything or simply calling to scrap reform all together. They had The House, The Senate and The White House for how many years of the Bush administration and did NOTHING to advance healthcare reform and the reason seems pretty clear, they don't really WANT reform.

As to your reference to "toys"...Isn't that a large part of the problem in this country? Parties and their supporters treating the welfare of our country as some damned game to be won at all costs instead of working together for the common good of ALL it's citizens? Were you complaining about not sharing the "toys" when the Republicans had them all or just when they STOPPED having them all? For my part, I'm sick of both parties and the partisan game playing and their focus on pandering for reelection instead of doing their jobs.
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#69 Vapor Trails

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:47 PM

View PostCertifiably Cait, on Feb 10 2010, 08:25 PM, said:

Maybe if Republicans had taken better care of the "toys" when it was their turn to watch the shop, we'd all feel better about sharing them now.  Did you ever think of that?  Democrats didn't sweep into office because Obama could smile and use a teleprompter.   They came into office because the GOP had done a bad job.  

And Democrats will exit power for the same reason Republicans did--they screwed up. Political parties are more than bastion's of ideologies.  They are supposed to govern.  Remember that when you begin pointing a finger-  Every sweep of one party into or out of office amounted to someone, some where, doing a BAD job.

Posted Image

"ILLOGICAL!! ILLOGICAL!! BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES CANNOT BE FAULTY!! ONE IS  FAULTY AND THE OTHER IS NOT!! ONE IS FAULTY AND THE OTHER IS NOT!! ILLOGICAL!! ILLOGICAL!! ONLY MALFUNCTIONING BIOLOGICAL INFESTATIONS CAN COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES CAN BE FAULTY!! NOMAD IS PERFECT!! NOMADE WILL STERILIZE!! STERILIZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! BZZZZZZZZZT-BBBBBBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!"

:vulcan:

Edited by Analog Kid, 10 February 2010 - 08:52 PM.

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#70 Themis

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 09:27 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:    

Both parties deserve to be sterilized...

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#71 Cait

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 09:30 PM

View PostAnalog Kid, on Feb 10 2010, 05:47 PM, said:

View PostCertifiably Cait, on Feb 10 2010, 08:25 PM, said:

Maybe if Republicans had taken better care of the "toys" when it was their turn to watch the shop, we'd all feel better about sharing them now.  Did you ever think of that?  Democrats didn't sweep into office because Obama could smile and use a teleprompter.   They came into office because the GOP had done a bad job.  

And Democrats will exit power for the same reason Republicans did--they screwed up. Political parties are more than bastion's of ideologies.  They are supposed to govern.  Remember that when you begin pointing a finger-  Every sweep of one party into or out of office amounted to someone, some where, doing a BAD job.

Posted Image

"ILLOGICAL!! ILLOGICAL!! BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES CANNOT BE FAULTY!! ONE IS  FAULTY AND THE OTHER IS NOT!! ONE IS FAULTY AND THE OTHER IS NOT!! ILLOGICAL!! ILLOGICAL!! ONLY MALFUNCTIONING BIOLOGICAL INFESTATIONS CAN COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES CAN BE FAULTY!! NOMAD IS PERFECT!! NOMADE WILL STERILIZE!! STERILIZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! STER-IL-IZE!! BZZZZZZZZZT-BBBBBBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!"

:vulcan:


OK, that made my day, actually my year in OT.  Perfect you pot stirrer...:p

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#72 Vapor Trails

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 09:55 PM

View PostCertifiably Cait, on Feb 10 2010, 09:30 PM, said:

OK, that made my day, actually my year in OT.  Perfect you pot stirrer...:p

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:angel_not:
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#73 Rhea

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 10:12 PM

View PostCaptain Jack, on Feb 8 2010, 08:51 PM, said:

1. "Let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines."

I've been a huge supporter of this from day 1.  This alone will reduce HC costs.  How?  Competition.  When you have competing companies, they lower their rates to be more appealing to people looking for policies.  Look at auto insurance. Works well.  And people have choices.  Win-win for consumers.

2.  "Allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do." This is the very purpose of the exchanges, as defined in Section 1312.

A sound option for those willing to participate.

3.  "Give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs." Section 1302 of the Senate bill does this directly.
"End junk lawsuits."

So long as it allows for other insurance companies from other states to compete.

4.  The tax break for employer-sponsored insurance.

This would help ease expense burdens on business and give them a chance to grow and prosper.  The healthier the business, the healthier the economy.

5.  And finally, we shouldn't forget the compromises that have been the most painful for Democrats, and the most substantive. This is a private-market plan.

Agreed.

We finally agree on something. Try not to faint. :p
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#74 Vapor Trails

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 10:17 PM

View PostRhea, on Feb 10 2010, 10:12 PM, said:

We finally agree on something. Try not to faint. :p

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Edited by Analog Kid, 10 February 2010 - 10:27 PM.

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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait



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