

#21
Posted 10 March 2010 - 07:25 PM
That's not to say that any of that is what's going on with scientology. I just wanted to clarify my own position on the subject of "truth."
QT
Een Draght Mackt Maght
#22
Posted 10 March 2010 - 07:40 PM
Quote
#23
Posted 10 March 2010 - 07:49 PM
"James Carville emerges from the conflagration riding a burning alligator . . ."
#24
Posted 10 March 2010 - 08:10 PM
QueenTiye, on Mar 10 2010, 02:34 PM, said:
None of that means that the original data isn't a house of cards. And, unlike Christianity, Scientology is persecuting its OWN members. Not the heretics - the actual practitioners. So, no, I would have to disagree that there are any similarities between it and early religious faiths. As Jesus said, you can judge a tree by its fruits.
QT
Exactly. And a lot of people swept up into Scientology were hooked on the promise of removing obstacles that stood in the way of being a sort of "pure soul". That our souls are defiled and damaged by different things in life experiences, all of which could be removed, healed, etc. by using the technology of the Church, and what would be left would be a pure soul. Many sought/seek to find that, and in that regard it is a religion. But again, it is spiritual to the degree that the individual him or herself wants it to be. The Church itself does not have one religious tenet that we'd recognize as such.
The catch has been of course, that no one ever reaches "it". That magic place promised. New levels emerge as people attain the [previous] highest level. So, the money pit is never ending. The Church convinces you you are miserable, and you can become happy if you join.
It's the same old con, people want something, whatever it is you want, the Church can provide. Want to be a cleared soul? They can do it. Want to be rich and famous? They can do it. Want to he happy? Oh they can definitely do that. All you have to do is follow the yellow brick road, only the road never goes anywhere.
That's not to say, there aren't some moments of apparent gain, but I honestly think that those gains would have come along to those people regardless. Some people live examined lives. They discover, learn, grow all on their own. Those people would also grow using the Hubbard stuff. Like I said, it wasn't that new. He culled it from other places and as a philosophy was jerry-rigged from other philosophies.
For those that don't have gains, the Church says it is the individual's fault--not the Church's. They are out-ethics, and in order to get fixed enough so you can then gain from the original processes, you get sent to Ethics for handling, and that costs too. LOL I swear there is no end to how these guys have covered their asses. So, the parishioners pay for the lack of gains, and they are convinced it is their own fault. It cracks me up every time I try and explain this to anyone. It's the ultimate catch-22.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:
Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html
#25
Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:14 PM
#26
Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:34 PM
http://www.americanr...urvey-aris.org/
Scientology has claimed up to 8 million members at various times. In 2008, according to ARIS, which is an annual survey done in junuction with Trinity College, 339,000 people self-identified as Christian Scientists.
The research is done by the ISSSC:
Quote
Their methodology:
Quote
It's really fascinating. For instance, the two most dramatic jumps are Muslims, who jumped from 527,000 in 1990 to 1,349,000 in 2008 and interestingly enough, Buddhists, who jumped from 404,000 in 1990 to 1,189,000 in 2008 (go, Buddhists! You don't see fanatical Buddhist fundmantalists

Edited by Rhea, 10 March 2010 - 09:37 PM.
- Robert A. Heinlein
When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH
Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen. - RAH
#27
Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:41 PM
Rhea, on Mar 10 2010, 09:34 PM, said:
http://www.americanr...urvey-aris.org/
Scientology has claimed up to 8 million members at various times. In 2008, according to ARIS, which is an annual survey done in junuction with Trinity College, 339,000 people self-identified as Christian Scientists.
Christian Science isn't Scientology--they're completely different sets of beliefs.
"James Carville emerges from the conflagration riding a burning alligator . . ."
#28
Posted 10 March 2010 - 10:28 PM
Nick, on Mar 10 2010, 06:41 PM, said:
Rhea, on Mar 10 2010, 09:34 PM, said:
http://www.americanr...urvey-aris.org/
Scientology has claimed up to 8 million members at various times. In 2008, according to ARIS, which is an annual survey done in junuction with Trinity College, 339,000 people self-identified as Christian Scientists.
Christian Science isn't Scientology--they're completely different sets of beliefs.
You're right. My bad.

Nobody seems to have self-identified as Scientologists, because if you look at this list:
http://www.americanr...l/religion.html
It was under "other religions/faiths" as a possible answer for the surveyors to record, but apparently the number of people who self-identified as Scientologists is stastically insignificant, which is really peculiar. Maybe Scientologists don't think of it as a religious faith?
I read the full report a while ago - it's actually really interesting, as much for the increase in people who self-identify as Evangelicals, which went way up and the "nones," which doubled IIRC.
I was considering this as the most comprehensive survey because it's actually added to the U.S. Census Report (which is a whole other conversation about why the Census, which is not allowed to ask questions about religion, has incorporated this into their report. Talk about an end run around the rules).
The Wikipedia info explains it using another survey, which also didn't record many people self-identifying as Scientologists:
http://en.wikipedia....ship_statistics
Quote
Scientologists tend to disparage general religious surveys on the grounds that many members maintaining cultural and social ties to other religious groups will, when asked their religion, answer with their traditional and more socially acceptable affiliation. On the other hand, religious scholar J. Gordon Melton has said that the church's estimates of its membership numbers are significantly exaggerated.[82]
Edited by Rhea, 10 March 2010 - 10:33 PM.
- Robert A. Heinlein
When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH
Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen. - RAH
#29
Posted 10 March 2010 - 10:46 PM
Enkephalen, on Mar 10 2010, 08:14 PM, said:
So it wouldn't surprise me at all if the real membership figures were much lower than what the group regularly reports.
Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Religion, Scientology, 2010
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