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Musings about this Health Care Bill backlash

Health Care ObamaCare 2010

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#21 Batrochides

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:54 PM

Do I advocate the use of violence in political discourse? No.

Do I condemn the actions of and deplore those who carry out or make threats of violence against legislators who supported the just-passed health care plan? Absolutely.

Keeping this in mind...and following the complaints about the erosion of civivility in politics from those of that side of the aisle...I say it's disingenous at best for the Democratic Party, particularly those of progressive identity, to raise that big of a ruckus considering that for the past forty-plus years influential members have praised the efforts that they deemed helped end the Vietman War, which often included violence against "the Establishment"; when street violence was part-and-parcel of the struggle that successfully blocked development by the University of California of the People's Park lot; when in the early seventies it was proof of your liberal credentials to support the Black Panther Party and give generously to the legal funds of those on trial for terrorist acts; when the action that now draws criticism from the left--shouting down speakers at public meetings, or getting the organizers to disinvite them--was born at U.C. Berkeley in the late 1970s.

As far as I'm concerned, those who sowed the wind can reap the whirlwind.

Batrochides

Edited by Batrochides, 28 March 2010 - 05:54 PM.


#22 Bad Wolf

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:57 PM

Specs the reason I put my counter in was to show that i'm conflicted about this.  This is why the thread title includes the word "musings" and why the first post says I'm more or less thinking out loud.
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#23 Spectacles

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 06:03 PM

Quote

Batrochides: As far as I'm concerned, those who sowed the wind can reap the whirlwind.

So because the actions are directed against Democrats, they're fine?  
Do you suppose that Congressman Weiner was blowing up science labs in the 60s? Maybe every single Democratic representative whose windows were smashed out this week was a Weatherman....

Speaking of disingenuous, it's disingenuous to pretend that this Democratic party has anything at all to do with the radical left of the 1960s--unless one fell asleep in 1975 and just woke up. A good portion of the Democratic party is now composed of Blue Dogs--conservatives. Meanwhile the GOP has drifted so far right that Barack Obama is governing like a moderate Republican of the 60s, and today's right thinks he's a radical commie.

The times, they have a-changed. Drastically.

And, maybe it's just me, but I didn't care for the violence of the radical left in the 1960s, and I don't care for the violence of the radical right today. I don't care for expressing one's political opinions through violence and bullying, period.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#24 JadziaDax

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 06:20 PM

View PostEclipse, on Mar 28 2010, 12:19 PM, said:

Unfortunately, the passage of this health care bill will directly affect me.
The company that I work for has already announced that it will be
canceling employees and retirees prescription benefits due to the
cancellation of the tax benefits that my company received for providing
workers and retirees with prescription drug coverage. The government
needs to cancel those tax benefits to help pay for this monstrously expensive
health care bill.
From what I understand, they will still get to have a tax write off from proving prescription benefits to retirees...what they cannot do, is write off as the money the government gives them.

Quote

For example, if a company spent $100 on benefits, including a $28 government subsidy, it could write off the full $100 on its taxes under the old rules. The new rules would allow the same company to write off only $72.
Source: yahoo.

Basically, these companies won't be able to claim the "free" money they got as a tax writeoff. They were essentially stealing money in the past. Now they can't. And they're choosing who whine and bitch about it because in the end it's all about the mighty dollar, and not doing the right thing, if we had Universal Healthcare, this wouldn't even be a problem.


View PostBad Wolf, on Mar 28 2010, 01:10 PM, said:

Have people REALLY gone off the deep end or is the media saying they have?  What violence is occurring?  Is it in the same universe let alone the same ball park as what happened when desegregation happened or Title VII passed or is it being made to seem a lot worse than it is by the media and by people buying into it?

I've seen a lot of comments lately that the Tea Party is being hijacked by the Militia Movement of the 80s/90s. It could be these former militia people who are using the Tea Party as a cover for being their old selves (note: I am too young to remember anything about the Militia Movement except for the Oklahoma City Bombing....this is just what other people are saying). It's just speculation from many people, but 99% of the Tea Party is doing their thing peacefully (it still is mostly the puppet of Fox News), it's just the wacka-doodles in it that are giving it a bad name. But then again, never underestimate the power of groupthink.....especially when said group is being hijacked by a wacka-doodle.

Edited by JadziaDax, 28 March 2010 - 06:25 PM.

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#25 Palisades

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 06:37 PM

View PostJadziaDax, on Mar 28 2010, 05:20 PM, said:

From what I understand, they will still get to have a tax write off from proving prescription benefits to retirees...what they cannot do, is write off as the money the government gives them.

Quote

For example, if a company spent $100 on benefits, including a $28 government subsidy, it could write off the full $100 on its taxes under the old rules. The new rules would allow the same company to write off only $72.
Source: yahoo.

Basically, these companies won't be able to claim the "free" money they got as a tax writeoff. They were essentially stealing money in the past. Now they can't. And they're choosing who whine and bitch about it because in the end it's all about the mighty dollar, and not doing the right thing, if we had Universal Healthcare, this wouldn't even be a problem.

There was no stealing involved. The government was subsidizing part of the companies' cost of insuring their retirees to keep Medicare Part D from being overwhelmed. You can argue the companies shouldn't have been allowed to write off the subsidy, but it was a legal tax deduction and it made them more willing to insure their retirees and keep them out of Medicare Part D.

Also:

Quote

Consumers Energy, a Michigan gas and electric company with 2.9 million customers, said it will not take a big first-quarter charge because, like most utility companies, it can try to recover the added costs from its customers through rate hikes.
Wonderful.

Edited by Palisade, 28 March 2010 - 07:09 PM.

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