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First openly gay bishop

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#61 Drew

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:41 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 6 2003, 03:37 PM, said:

For my part I wish that people would not start accusing people of being part of a hive mind simply because they don't agree with them.  It is not productive or constructive and it's more than annoying.
My apologies. I was speaking generally of the automatic assumption that this was a Good Thing™, not of anyone in particular, though I can see how it might have come across that way.  :cool:

Edited by Drew, 06 August 2003 - 03:41 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#62 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:43 PM

^

Thank you Drew.

Apology accepted. :cool:
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#63 Drew

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:43 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 6 2003, 03:39 PM, said:

You are comparing IDENTITY with ACTS in this post.

This is inconsistent with your many posts in which you have distinguished between homosexuality and the act of gay sex.
Am I missing something? I don't see what you're trying to point out.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#64 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:47 PM

Homosexuality is a matter of sexual identity.

You were comparing RACIAL identity, not with sexual identity, but with the act of homosexual sex.

All though it actually doesn't make a difference to this discussion because I disagree with you either way, this is inconsistent with your many previous posts where you draw a distinction between sexual identity and sexual acts (I don't agree with the distinction btw).
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#65 Drew

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:47 PM

ArmourMe, on Aug 6 2003, 03:37 PM, said:

BEING queer is NOT about DOING any act or not doing any act.  It is as much about identity as race, and as involuntary.  If being queer or straight was a choice, you could choose to have sexual feelings for men with a simple decision.
If it could be proven without a doubt that homosexual urges are genetically determined, you might have a point. However, race is definitely genetically determined. No question there. And as such, it can't be considered equal to sexual identity.

Quote

If this Bishop is allowed marital relations under his creed, he is, if he's NOT allowed any marital relations, if his creed expectes celibacy.....IS HE ANY LESS GAY?  Of course not.

Actually, if he declared himself gay and celibate, I don't think I'd have any objections.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#66 Drew

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:49 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 6 2003, 03:47 PM, said:

Homosexuality is a matter of sexual identity.

You were comparing RACIAL identity, not with sexual identity, but with the act of homosexual sex.
No, I said they DIDN'T compare. Barring an active homosexual (by which I assume they mean that he DOES the DEED with some sort of regularity) from the priesthood is not the same thing as barring a black man from a white country club.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#67 Josh

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:55 PM

Quote

If it could be proven without a doubt that homosexual urges are genetically determined, you might have a point. However, race is definitely genetically determined. No question there. And as such, it can't be considered equal to sexual identity.

Only the people who are gay can tell you that they didn't choose it... and of course, you wouldn't believe them anyway because that would mean accepting that GOD created them which would of course mean that the scriptures could actually be WRONG! NO, THAT CAN'T BE POSSIBLE!

I look forward to the day when it is proven that being gay has genetic roots. A lot of people will be eating crow.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#68 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:59 PM

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Josh}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

:love:
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#69 ArmourMe

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:15 PM

:D  Unfortunately once queerness/straightness is proven genetic.....someone will start developing tests to do to babies in utero....gene therapy to "cure" those of us already "afflicted"  GAK :D

Its awfully easy to determine whether its inherant or not - straight people out there!  Try to become queer!  Just see if you start to like it!  Its all just a decision after all!   Or IS it?  :devil:  :angel:  :p


{{{{{{{{{{{{{Josh}}}}}}}}}}}}


All joking aside, I'm going to bow out for now - I'm {}this close to hitting the irate point. I'm so freakin' glad I live in a city where queer people are seen as one more wonderous variety of all the wonderous varieties...by most.

#70 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:17 PM

^

BRAVISSIMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{AM}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

You rock!

Lil
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#71 ArmourMe

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:20 PM

{{{{{{{{{{{SMOOOOOOCH}}}}}}}}}}  Lil!!!!

(I promise it won't turn ya Bi   :devil:  :ninja:  :p  :hehe:

#72 Drew

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:21 PM

I'll just say this. "Diversity," "tolerance," and "acceptance" are not one-way streets.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#73 Josh

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:22 PM

(((((((((Lil and AM)))))))))))

I promise I won't turn either of you gay. I might be a "supposed" genetic "defect", but aren't I just an ENDEARING one? :p
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#74 Drew

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:25 PM

Ooo. You all so bravely shouted me down! Congratulate yourselves while I scurry back into my closet.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#75 ArmourMe

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:25 PM

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!   Josh yer just too sweet  :)   It'd be hard to make me gay, admittedly not impossible.....it'd just involve surgery!   But queer I be!!!!!!

{{{{{{{{{{{Joshy}}}}}}}}}  & a smooch for you, too!   :love:  :hehe:  :angel:

#76 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:27 PM

Drew do you remember kimmer's thread about hot topics, where you said this?

Quote

Sometimes there aren't two equal-but-opposite sides to an issue, and I'm not going to show a bit of respect for an opinion that supports something morally repugnant.

I suspect that this issue, homosexuality (by which I mean both the identity and the act), is one of those issues for both of us and we are on opposite sides of it.

I don't want you to feel bullied or ganged up on, but you need to recognize that there are going to be times when people are going to be on opposite sides of an issue that is *just that important* to them.

Lil

Edited by Una Salus Lillius, 06 August 2003 - 04:35 PM.

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#77 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:34 PM

Drew, on Aug 6 2003, 02:25 PM, said:

Ooo. You all so bravely shouted me down! Congratulate yourselves while I scurry back into my closet.
oh I hadn't seen this post when I made my last post or I would probably not have been as diplomatic as I was.

I will say this:  I often find myself feeling beleagured in threads like the one I started about the Bible where everyone's first instinct was to jump on me and accuse me of some kind of agenda.  

I suppose I could have complained about being shouted down and then run off to pout.

Then again, if I'd done that, the thread would not have turned into one of the most civil, educational, and stimulating discussions of a hot topic that I've ever seen on line.

Just a thought.

Lil
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#78 Drew

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:35 PM

But I think some people jumped into this thread looking for a fight. That's enough to get me to walk away.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#79 Bad Wolf

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:41 PM

I can't speak for anyone but me but I know I jumped into this thread to express approval of the Episcopalian Church's decision and then to comment on someone's (it may have been Lao) statement about sexual identity v. sexual act.

You then started in with the "this is a Christian thing so go away if you're not Christian" type of thing and we proceeded from there.

It so happens that several people on line right now do not agree with you.

I suspect that other people who do agree with you will chime in at some point.

But you've been around long enough to know better than to start pulling this "poor me I've been ganged up on" stuff.

*shrug*

If you want to walk away that's obviously your choice.  But don't try to shift responsibility for it to anyone other than you because no one (and on this one I will take the liberty of speaking for everyone else on this thread) is trying to drive you away.

K, that's about all I have to say about that.

Lil
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#80 Josh

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:44 PM

Quote

But I think some people jumped into this thread looking for a fight. That's enough to get me to walk away.

I'm sorry if that's the way you feel, Drew, but your actions themselves are just as responsible for this thread as much as the actions of everyone else involved. It takes two... or in this case, five. Or six. Whatever.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.



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