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BP: Oil Has Stopped Leaking Into Gulf

BP Spill 2010

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#1 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 03:03 PM

I'm wi-fi-ing from McDonald's-just came across this:

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NEW ORLEANS BP says oil from its broken well has stopped gushing into the Gulf of Mexico for the first time since April.

The announcement Thursday came after company officials said all valves had been shut on a new cap over the busted well in an experiment to stop the spill.

Kent Wells, a BP PLC vice president, said at a news briefing that oil stopped flowing into the water at 2:25 p.m. CDT.

It was a long-awaited milestone in one of the nation's worst environmental disasters. While not a permanent solution to plug the busted well, the success in capturing the oil spewing out was welcome news.

The crisis began when BP's deepwater rig exploded, killing 11 workers.

The cap is not a permanent fix. BP is drilling two relief wells so it can pump mud and cement into the leaking well in hopes of plugging it for good.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe a word of this. Until we can get confirmation from someone OTHER than BP, I simply won't believe it. BP's credibility is in tatters.

:suspect:
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#2 Nick

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 03:28 PM

Oh, it's stopped, but I'm worried about the pressure buildup causing further damage to the borehole.  The crisis is not over, it has the potential to seep out around the wellhead or rupture the flex joint the new sealing stack is connected to.  What they're doing is extremely risky and solely for a nice sounding headline, imo.

#3 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 03:34 PM

View PostNick, on 15 July 2010 - 03:28 PM, said:

Oh, it's stopped, but I'm worried about the pressure buildup causing further damage to the borehole.  The crisis is not over, it has the potential to seep out around the wellhead or rupture the flex joint the new sealing stack is connected to.  What they're doing is extremely risky and solely for a nice sounding headline, imo.

How do you know it's stopped? Based on what? Video? Is it video that BP provided? With all the bullsh!t that this company has put forth, has what BP said been confirmed by other sources? Sorry Nick-but I'm not budging on this one. Let's see other sources come forward to back up what BP said.

And EVEN IF they are telling the truth, there's the rest of what you just said.

:suspect:
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#4 Nick

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 04:03 PM

Well, the ROV feeds are provided by independent contractors, so I don't think it's likely or even practical for BP to falsify the live video nor that they would even have a reason to.  The sealing stack is plainly visible and oil is not leaking (at the moment).

This is only a pressure test and will last 6 to 48 hours.

They'll have to open it back up to complete the kill bore.  I'm hoping & praying that this test doesn't damage the well further and they'll be able to easily connect the collection vessels and begin capturing ALL of the oil so no more gets in to the water.

#5 Nick

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 04:41 PM

Well this is reassuring.  It's from the same guy at the Daily Kos who got me worried about the flex joint:

Quote

No.. they're not trying to blow anything up.
And we don't expect the FlexJoint to blow up or even leak.

The issue is them intentionally overpresuring it... and the government signing on to that. Tomtech, in the ROV threads pointed out that they could have removed one-flange-lower and everything in the stack would be good for 10,000.

Cavnar echoed that same point.

So that's what's stupid.


#6 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 05:27 PM

A small side note... ;)

Someone in PM expressed their horror that I was at a McDonalds. :p Rest assured-I don't eat their burgers. ;) All I had was a chicken sandwich and a milk. I was there for the free wi-fi. ;) :p~

:hehe:
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#7 BklnScott

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 05:58 PM

^^^Do you eat the fries?  'cause if you eat the fries, you eat the burgers . . .

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#8 Hambil

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 05:59 PM

If it has stopped, that's great news, but I'm not going to celebrate. We still have years of cleanup ahead, and much holding of feet to the fire.

#9 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 06:03 PM

View PostBklnScott, on 15 July 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

^^^Do you eat the fries?  'cause if you eat the fries, you eat the burgers . . .

Nope! :p

:hehe:
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#10 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 06:07 PM

View PostHambil, on 15 July 2010 - 05:59 PM, said:

If it has stopped, that's great news, but I'm not going to celebrate. We still have years of cleanup ahead, and much holding of feet to the fire.

As I've said elsewhere-if it has indeed stopped, it's an empty victory. Why? Because the damage has been done.
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#11 Nonny

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 09:11 AM

View PostAnalog Kid, on 15 July 2010 - 06:03 PM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on 15 July 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

^^^Do you eat the fries?  'cause if you eat the fries, you eat the burgers . . .

Nope! :p

:hehe:
Have they not stopped frying them in beef fat in your state?     :unsure:
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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#12 Nonny

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 09:15 AM

View PostAnalog Kid, on 15 July 2010 - 06:07 PM, said:

View PostHambil, on 15 July 2010 - 05:59 PM, said:

If it has stopped, that's great news, but I'm not going to celebrate. We still have years of cleanup ahead, and much holding of feet to the fire.

As I've said elsewhere-if it has indeed stopped, it's an empty victory. Why? Because the damage has been done.

Indeed.    :(    George Lakoff: Conservatism's Death Gusher

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The issue is death -- death gushing at ten thousand pounds per square inch from a mile below the sea, tens of thousands of barrels of death a day. Not just death to eleven human beings. Death to sea birds, sea turtles, dolphins, fish, oyster beds, shrimp, beaches; death to the fishing industry, tourism, jobs; and death to a way of life based on the beauty and bounty of the Gulf.

Many, perhaps a majority, of the Gulf residents affected are conservatives, strong right-wing Republicans, following extremist Governors Bobby Jindal and Haley Barbour. What those conservatives are not saying, and may be incapable of seeing, is that conservatism itself is largely responsible for what happened, and that conservatism is a continuing disaster for conservatives who live along the Gulf. Conservatism is an ideology of death.

It was conservative laissez-faire free market ideology -- that maximizing profit comes first -- that led to:

    * The corrupt relationship between the oil companies and the Interior Department staff that was supposedly regulating them
    * Minimizing cost by not drilling relief wells
    * The principle that oil companies could be responsible their own risk assessments on drilling
    * Maximizing profit by outsourcing risk assessment that told them what they wanted to hear: zero risk!
    * Maximizing profit by minimizing cost of materials
    * Maximizing profit by failing to pay cleanup crews and businesses for their losses
    * Focusing only on profit by failing to test the cleanup methods to be used if something went wrong
    * Minimizing cost by sacrificing the health of cleanup crews, refusing to allow them to use respirator masks to protect against toxic fumes.


It is conservative profit-above-all market fundamentalism that has led other oil companies to mount a massive PR campaign to isolate BP as an anomalous "bad actor" and to argue that offshore drilling should be continued by the self-proclaimed "good actors." Their PR fails to mention that in Congressional hearings it came out that they all outsource risk assessment to the same company that declared that BP had "zero risk." The PR fails to mention that they all use cost-benefit analysis to maximize profits just as BP did. Cost-benefit analysis only looks at monetary costs versus benefits, case by case, not at the risk of massive death of the kind gushing out of the Gulf at present. Death, in itself, even at that scale, is not a "cost." Only an outflow of money is a "cost." This is what follows from conservative laissez-faire market ideology, an ideology that continues to sanction death on a Gulf scale.

But the facts won't make a difference to dyed-in the-wool conservatives, since the facts will be filtered through their ideological frames: when the facts don't fit the frames, the facts will be ignored.

The conservative worldview says man has dominion over nature: nature is there for human monetary profit. Profit is sanctioned over the possibility of massive death and destruction in nature. Conservatives support even more dangerous drilling off the coast of Alaska and are working to repeal the President's moratorium on deep water drilling. Nature be damned; the oil companies have a right to make money, death or no death.

Directness of causation is a rarely noticed property of the conservative worldview....

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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#13 Vapor Trails

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:44 AM

Nonny,

You know, I have to be honest...

Even if there's some truth in what you've posted, I find it hard to believe that conservatism alone is the culprit. Too often, both Dems and Republicans like to point at each other and scream "IT'S THEIR FAULT!!!" And frankly, I've grown f*cking SICK of it. This is not a slam on you, Nonny-just a general weariness with the whole godd@mn process. :tired:

And I saw much of this AGAIN just now on Meet The Press (NBC). I'm just sick of it all. I look at a lot of the conversations going on-the "us versus them" arguments, people pointing fingers. There is some truth in the conversations, but a LOT of it seems to be drowned out by agendas, hyperbole, and distractions. And I seriously wonder about the intelligence/astuteness of many folks in the American public, if these particular folks are able to grasp these facts. And there's also the "sheeple" effect; people following others because it's easier than to actually sit down and think critically.

Once more-look at the quotes under my MySpace banner. They said it all. Note in particular what Cait posted. I think TOO many people don't take the thoughts behind those quotes into consideration.

:tired: :glare:
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#14 Nonny

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:11 AM

View PostAnalog Kid, on 18 July 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

This is not a slam on you, Nonny
I know it's not.  And I'm sure George Lakoff can handle it too.  

Quote

-just a general weariness with the whole godd@mn process. :tired:
I'm still at the disbelief stage myself.  I'm afraid to face my rage.  

{{{{{{{Saul}}}}}}}
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#15 Vapor Trails

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:16 AM

View PostNonny, on 18 July 2010 - 11:11 AM, said:

View PostAnalog Kid, on 18 July 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

This is not a slam on you, Nonny
I know it's not.  And I'm sure George Lakoff can handle it too.  

Quote

-just a general weariness with the whole godd@mn process. :tired:
I'm still at the disbelief stage myself.  I'm afraid to face my rage.  

{{{{{{{Saul}}}}}}}


{{{Nonny}}}

I've been beyond disbelief for a L-O-N-G time. I'm not kidding when I say that virtually nothing shocks me about people anymore. :tired:

I get up and go to bed angry every day. It's one reason I'm a writer. That's how I channel my rage-I channel it into my fiction.
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#16 Spectacles

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:29 AM

^Nevertheless, it is true that we need to regulate businesses. For too long, the conservative belief in the utter purity of the profit motive has held sway. The thinking has gone like this: regulations to protect consumers and a company's immediate environment cost businesses money. Businesses want to make money, so they won't do anything to hurt their profits. Therefore, businesses don't need regulations because they will do what is right anyway. And if some business does get too greedy and cuts corners, resulting in grievous harm to people and their environment, lawsuits will punish the business. So, again, no need to regulate businesses, no need to regulate the marketplace. It is rationally self-correcting on its own.

This, we have seen and need to acknowledge, is naive. Businesses are only as smart and ethical and far-thinking as the people who run them.  

It is true that regulations cost businesses money in the short run. But often, as in BP's case, regulations save businesses money in the long term. And, beyond the interests of business, regulations save lives and grief from reckless pursuit of profits.

We need regulations. Even Alan Greenspan, a lifelong libertarian free-marketeer, a disciple of Ayn Rand, has acknowledged this:

http://www.bloomberg...id=a7is5F_Do6N0

Quote

Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said a ``once-in-a-century credit tsunami'' has engulfed financial markets and conceded his free-market ideology shunning regulation was flawed.

``Yes, I found a flaw,'' Greenspan said in response to grilling from the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. ``I was shocked because I'd been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well.'' Greenspan added he was ``partially'' wrong for opposing the regulation of derivatives.

Greenspan's contrition came after lawmakers and Fed watchers increasingly blamed the former Fed chairman for helping cause the crisis with lax oversight of the housing boom and derivatives markets.

Quote

Greenspan's devotion to free markets was nurtured in part by his association with Ayn Rand, the libertarian novelist and philosopher who espoused laissez-faire capitalism. He met Rand in the 1950s, becoming part of her inner circle of followers meeting regularly in her Manhattan apartment.

``Greenspan in a very, very kind of unwise, left-brain way, imputed pure rationality to markets,'' James Grant, editor of Grant's Interest Rate Observer, said in an interview on ``Night Talk'' with Mike Schneider to be broadcast later today on Bloomberg Television. ``They are just as rational and just as efficient as the people that operated in them.''


So I think that a big lesson we need to draw from this oil spill is that we need to be skeptical when people argue that regulations are unnecessary or bad. Some are. But there are a lot of lazy ideologues out there who like to latch on to the simplest idea and avoid nuance. So they'll argue that regulations are always bad, always unnecessary. They're wrong. See the Gulf of Mexico.

But I agree with Saul that both parties are to blame. Regulations piss off corporate owners, who can sway elections with their money. With few exceptions, Democrats are just as afraid to impose and enforce regulations as are Republicans. There is a political cost for doing so.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#17 Nonny

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:32 AM

View PostAnalog Kid, on 18 July 2010 - 11:16 AM, said:

I get up and go to bed angry every day. It's one reason I'm a writer. That's how I channel my rage-I channel it into my fiction.
Good way to deal with it.  I'm on hold at the moment, expecting to kickstart my writing next month when my VA clinician and I start Cognitive Processing Therapy.  Apparently she's been waiting for me to be ready, and last week I apparently said the word.    :)  

A couple months ago the opening line for something new popped into my head, and I've been playing around with it.  I might be ready to get serious about my writing again.   :)
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#18 Nonny

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:36 AM

View PostSpectacles, on 18 July 2010 - 11:29 AM, said:

But there are a lot of lazy ideologues out there who like to latch on to the simplest idea and avoid nuance.
Exactly!  Reading George Lakoff clears my mental palette.
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#19 Spectacles

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:50 AM

Yep. Lakoff ain't no slouch. :)
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#20 Vapor Trails

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 12:03 PM

View PostSpectacles, on 18 July 2010 - 11:29 AM, said:

^Nevertheless, it is true that we need to regulate businesses. For too long, the conservative belief in the utter purity of the profit motive has held sway. The thinking has gone like this: regulations to protect consumers and a company's immediate environment cost businesses money. Businesses want to make money, so they won't do anything to hurt their profits. Therefore, businesses don't need regulations because they will do what is right anyway. And if some business does get too greedy and cuts corners, resulting in grievous harm to people and their environment, lawsuits will punish the business. So, again, no need to regulate businesses, no need to regulate the marketplace. It is rationally self-correcting on its own.

This, we have seen and need to acknowledge, is naive. Businesses are only as smart and ethical and far-thinking as the people who run them.  

It is true that regulations cost businesses money in the short run. But often, as in BP's case, regulations save businesses money in the long term. And, beyond the interests of business, regulations save lives and grief from reckless pursuit of profits.

We need regulations.

(the rest respectfully snipped)

I agree with this, but here's the problem:

Can we REALISTICALLY do it? And how thorough can we TRULY be?  :suspect:

We can NEVER factor out greed, selfishness, indifference and close-mindedness. So, whatever regulations that are made will be flawed from the get-go by design, because that's just the way people ARE. As I said before: it's not about truly helping the average Joe or Jane, even if that's the end result. This end result, if it happens, is nothing more than a distraction, to make the naive among us think that there is enough genuine consideration of the average Jane or Joe's plight to give them a leg up on life.

To NOT see this as a distraction is not only naive, it is DANGEROUSLY naive.

As I was told long ago-there are no friends in business. Damn straight.

Edited by Analog Kid, 18 July 2010 - 12:08 PM.

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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait



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