[Lord of the Sword]

Cheile, on 27 July 2010 - 07:13 PM, said:

so from all of your comments, you are essentially one of the fat haters, LOTS? who would rather embarrass a child than make some entitled skinny woman who bought a non-guaranteed seat wait for another flight. that's nice to know.

and i see i need to repeat myself...there are more possible factors as to why this teenager is "obese" than supposed overeating that the parents do not control.

it does not state this teenager's weight (and it's none of our business), but when they already have a reputation for recently targeting a known Hollywood name (and yes i know he had already bought two seats) for being "too big" to fly, it's obvious they knew better than to risk a real lawsuit from the parents of this teen.

i would better understand your outrage if they had booted another paying-in-advance passenger to fit this teenager. NOT some size zero chick who bought a standby seat that was not guaranteed.

No I am not a "fat hater"....I definately fall into the "fat" category, with my weight. Which I am working on. As I said before...if the parents of the 14 year old had purchased 2 seats, then I wouldn't have a problem with the skinny woman being bumped. But they didn't. so the math works out as follows: 2 passengers, 2 seats. Yet the airline decided to cater to the 14 year old, so the little spoiled darling wouldn't have to squeeze into a seat. There was no reason to embarrase the woman...but they chose to do so, and wrongly IMO.

But what is one more spoiled child in the world? What is one more person thinking the world revolves around them and them alone?...Now that the teen has been made aware that everyone and everything exists solely to benefit their needs, cater to their every freaking desire.

[Cheile]

^ i hardly see why choosing to not be humiliating a child in a plane full of people will make them "spoiled".

and again, we don't know how "obese" this child really is. considering Southwest's discriminatory behavior, i honestly would not be surprised if the child wasn't really that big. (after all, Kevin Smith was clearly able to fit into the one seat according to their regs even though he preferred to purchase two and they still booted him off a flight he PAID for well in advance....yet they couldn't get their story straight when confronted by the media why he was booted off )

[DWF]

Whether the teen is overweight or not is largely besides the point, you can't leave a minor unattended at an airport, not only could charges be brought up against the airlines but the airport as well.

[Tricia]

DWF, on 27 July 2010 - 08:21 PM, said:

Whether the teen is overweight or not is largely besides the point, you can't leave a minor unattended at an airport, not only could charges be brought up against the airlines but the airport as well.

Which means that the parents would have gotten off also and the price of THREE tickets refunded.

The other passengers would have just looked at this woman getting off and wondered why...

If you forced that child off and she or he is that obese then everyone would have known why and been pointing/whispering.

As has been said there are more reasons that just eating too much for someone to be fat. Medical conditions etc. And once that extra weight is on you no matter what the cause it is hard work to lose it.

[Lord of the Sword]

Well I guess I'm in the minority here...oh well, so be it.

Personally I don't think catering to the obese teen, over someone else, is the right thing. Others obviously feel the teen should have their every desire and whim met, so be it...

We can argue round and round and not change each other's mind about it.

[Omega]

Quote

As has been said there are more reasons that just eating too much for someone to be fat. Medical conditions etc.

I'm still not entirely convinced of that, and I say this as someone who has been fond of a number of overweight individuals. If you expend more energy than you take in, you WILL lose weight. Period. Any other outcome defies the laws of physics. One can strategize the details, figure out exactly how to consume fewer calories while still getting your necessary nutrients, but when it comes down to it, it's all about conservation of energy.

[DWF]

Omega, on 27 July 2010 - 10:31 PM, said:

Quote

As has been said there are more reasons that just eating too much for someone to be fat. Medical conditions etc.

I'm still not entirely convinced of that, and I say this as someone who has been fond of a number of overweight individuals. If you expend more energy than you take in, you WILL lose weight. Period. Any other outcome defies the laws of physics. One can strategize the details, figure out exactly how to consume fewer calories while still getting your necessary nutrients, but when it comes down to it, it's all about conservation of energy.

You can lose muscle mass as well fat that way though and that's not always a good thing either.

[michael elizabeth]

Just how big do you have to be to be considered fat?

Who decides?

[Cheile]

michael elizabeth, on 27 July 2010 - 07:47 PM, said:

Just how big do you have to be to be considered fat?

Who decides?

good point. though i still feel it's no one's business how "obese" that child is, i'm curious to see a picture of him or her and/or know their approx. weight, to see if they are really THAT big. i'm betting anything they aren't as big as it's made out to be, esp considering Southwest's record with the treatment of passengers who aren't size zeros.

[gsmonks]

Cheile, on 27 July 2010 - 05:13 PM, said:

gsmonks, on 27 July 2010 - 04:06 PM, said:

Fat people are fat because of the amount they eat. Everything else is just political correctness and excuses.

I was once up to 246 lbs. I got rid of the fat with exercise and eating far less and smarter.

If my weight had ever gotten out of control to the point where I had to buy an extra seat, I'd have worked ten times harder at getting it under control. IMHO- the fat people of the world should be rendered for biodiesel if they don't get themselves under control.

um, wake up....not everyone is fat just because they eat too much. and your last line is disgusting and discriminatory.

Balogna. Everyone who is fat is fat because they eat too much. That old glandular story is a myth. Or did you think that fat accumulates by magic? To be there it had to have been ingested. For a LOT to be there, a LOT had to have been ingested.

As I say, the rest is political correctness and excuses.

[Tricia]

Lord of the Sword, on 27 July 2010 - 09:26 PM, said:

Well I guess I'm in the minority here...oh well, so be it.

Personally I don't think catering to the obese teen, over someone else, is the right thing. Others obviously feel the teen should have their every desire and whim met, so be it...

We can argue round and round and not change each other's mind about it.

LotS---

Not arguing but...

what makes you think that teen has their every whim and desire met?

If you believe the kid is fat because they eat too much then maybe they are eating too much to fill the hole in their heart IE emotional eating...and emotional eating does not come from being indulged and spoiled.

Granted we do not know this kid...so we do not know the truth of how obese they are or why.


And for the previous quoting of a post of mine..I also said---

Quote

And once that extra weight is on you no matter what the cause it is hard work to lose it.

There are various methods to losing weight. But cutting out the bad and unhealthy food choices does work, reasonably limiting calories also and exercise. It is hard work to get off weight that so easily piles on. And if the root cause was emotional eating, you have to fix that problem too.

[michael elizabeth]

I agree with you, trikay. No one knows and therefore it is not our place to judge. This is a 14 year old we're talking about. For all we know, the only thing his/her parents serve is fast food. It's not like the kid chose the groceries that came into the home.

In the case of gsmonks, 246lbs? That's obese. You would have to be nine feet tall to accommodate that body weight. There's another argument. What if you're a naturally large person? Someone like KHC for example. Do you have to pay for two seats? When I was ten, I was 5'3 and had breasts. My mother was furious when they made her pay adult fare for me to ride on the transit system.

Is there a picture of the "skinny" woman? Who decided she was skinny? What does that mean, skinny? Does that mean she should only have to pay for half a seat, or child's fare?

[Cardie]

I'm sure the woman was picked to be bumped because she was the last stand-by to be approved and that it had nothing to do with her being skinny. If the last stand-by had been a large but not obese guy who fit into the seat, he would have been asked to leave. Now, Southwest should simply have said that because of a late-arriving passenger they needed someone to give up their seat in return for a free ticket later. That's what they always do when planes are overbooked.

LotS, I don't know when you last flew, but I am heavy myself and can tell you that airplane seats keep getting smaller and smaller. If this teen had flown before and nothing had been said about an extra seat, how were they or the parents to know?

Cardie

[gsmonks]

michael elizabeth, on 27 July 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

I agree with you, trikay. No one knows and therefore it is not our place to judge. This is a 14 year old we're talking about. For all we know, the only thing his/her parents serve is fast food. It's not like the kid chose the groceries that came into the home.

In the case of gsmonks, 246lbs? That's obese.

Let's put it this way: as a friend pointed out at the time, "You have no neck . . ."

[michael elizabeth]

Cardie, on 27 July 2010 - 11:14 PM, said:

I'm sure the woman was picked to be bumped because she was the last stand-by to be approved and that it had nothing to do with her being skinny. If the last stand-by had been a large but not obese guy who fit into the seat, he would have been asked to leave. Now, Southwest should simply have said that because of a late-arriving passenger they needed someone to give up their seat in return for a free ticket later. That's what they always do when planes are overbooked.

LotS, I don't know when you last flew, but I am heavy myself and can tell you that airplane seats keep getting smaller and smaller. If this teen had flown before and nothing had been said about an extra seat, how were they or the parents to know?

Cardie

I wanted to say that too, Cardie. EVERYTHING is getting smaller...most people do not realize this fact because it's introduced so slowly. Barbara Walters did a special on it once and I was so grateful to her because no one believed me.

[Nikcara]

gsmonks, on 28 July 2010 - 04:07 AM, said:

Cheile, on 27 July 2010 - 05:13 PM, said:

gsmonks, on 27 July 2010 - 04:06 PM, said:

Fat people are fat because of the amount they eat. Everything else is just political correctness and excuses.

I was once up to 246 lbs. I got rid of the fat with exercise and eating far less and smarter.

If my weight had ever gotten out of control to the point where I had to buy an extra seat, I'd have worked ten times harder at getting it under control. IMHO- the fat people of the world should be rendered for biodiesel if they don't get themselves under control.

um, wake up....not everyone is fat just because they eat too much. and your last line is disgusting and discriminatory.

Balogna. Everyone who is fat is fat because they eat too much. That old glandular story is a myth. Or did you think that fat accumulates by magic? To be there it had to have been ingested. For a LOT to be there, a LOT had to have been ingested.

As I say, the rest is political correctness and excuses.

In a way you are correct - you do need to consume more calories than you expend in order to gain weight. But those glandular issues aren't a myth either. There are people who naturally gain and store weight far better than others - their bodies are able to absorb and store it better than most. Thus a "normal" diet would make them overweight. Some glandular problems and medications really make a difference - I remember when working at Eli Lilly one of the medications had the side effect of weight gain, profoundly enough that person who regularly went to the gym (2-3 times a week) and ate a highly regimented diet would still be overweight if they varied by as much as a single regular soda per week.

Some disorders cause the body to feel hungry even when it doesn't need food. So yeah, this leads to overeating, because frankly feeling like you're starving all the time tries your willpower. Try not eating for a day and then being told you couldn't eat a small snack because you're too fat - that's what it feels like for many of these people. They don't necessarily have less willpower then skinny people, their bodies just try it more often and harder (at least in that regard)

Also, many people don't know how to diet. Or eat properly, for that matter. Yeah, you can just eat very little for a few weeks and lose weight...but then your body switches to starvation mode, conserving energy as much as possible (and possibly getting in the way of normal living actives by causing shakiness, light-headedness, being tired, and muddled thinking). When you do start eating again, even if you eat smaller portions, your body clings to every calorie it can - and you end up going up in weight.

Some people are also just naturally broad. You can tell just by their bone structure that they are not meant to be small people. They may be extremely lean but never get down to a size 24 waist. Other people with broad bodies may actually be quite fit but with a layer of fat over their muscles, making them appear obese. I used to work with a guy who I just thought was fat until I found out how often he worked out - the guy went to the gym for over an hour every day. He could pick up things I could barely move like they were nothing.

[Cheile]

Nikcara, on 27 July 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

gsmonks, on 28 July 2010 - 04:07 AM, said:

Cheile, on 27 July 2010 - 05:13 PM, said:

gsmonks, on 27 July 2010 - 04:06 PM, said:

Fat people are fat because of the amount they eat. Everything else is just political correctness and excuses.

I was once up to 246 lbs. I got rid of the fat with exercise and eating far less and smarter.

If my weight had ever gotten out of control to the point where I had to buy an extra seat, I'd have worked ten times harder at getting it under control. IMHO- the fat people of the world should be rendered for biodiesel if they don't get themselves under control.

um, wake up....not everyone is fat just because they eat too much. and your last line is disgusting and discriminatory.

Balogna. Everyone who is fat is fat because they eat too much. That old glandular story is a myth. Or did you think that fat accumulates by magic? To be there it had to have been ingested. For a LOT to be there, a LOT had to have been ingested.

As I say, the rest is political correctness and excuses.

In a way you are correct - you do need to consume more calories than you expend in order to gain weight. But those glandular issues aren't a myth either. There are people who naturally gain and store weight far better than others - their bodies are able to absorb and store it better than most. Thus a "normal" diet would make them overweight. Some glandular problems and medications really make a difference - I remember when working at Eli Lilly one of the medications had the side effect of weight gain, profoundly enough that person who regularly went to the gym (2-3 times a week) and ate a highly regimented diet would still be overweight if they varied by as much as a single regular soda per week.

Some disorders cause the body to feel hungry even when it doesn't need food. So yeah, this leads to overeating, because frankly feeling like you're starving all the time tries your willpower. Try not eating for a day and then being told you couldn't eat a small snack because you're too fat - that's what it feels like for many of these people. They don't necessarily have less willpower then skinny people, their bodies just try it more often and harder (at least in that regard)

Also, many people don't know how to diet. Or eat properly, for that matter. Yeah, you can just eat very little for a few weeks and lose weight...but then your body switches to starvation mode, conserving energy as much as possible (and possibly getting in the way of normal living actives by causing shakiness, light-headedness, being tired, and muddled thinking). When you do start eating again, even if you eat smaller portions, your body clings to every calorie it can - and you end up going up in weight.

Some people are also just naturally broad. You can tell just by their bone structure that they are not meant to be small people. They may be extremely lean but never get down to a size 24 waist. Other people with broad bodies may actually be quite fit but with a layer of fat over their muscles, making them appear obese. I used to work with a guy who I just thought was fat until I found out how often he worked out - the guy went to the gym for over an hour every day. He could pick up things I could barely move like they were nothing.

this, all of it. thanks for the mention of medications with a side effect of weight gain, Nikcara. i did not even think of that. should have...since there is some sort of medication my mother could have been taking years ago for her menopause issues....but what was the FIRST thing she screamed about when she read the side effects? "possible weight gain". God forbid she no longer be a size four/six.

i have also heard this lame excuse from smokers...they don't want to quit because they know other smokers who supposedly gained a hundred pounds or more when they quit. i know one person who went BACK to smoking...and the first thing she said was that she knew it would help her shed the OMGFIFTEENPOUNDS she had gained in the six months she'd attempted to quit. in a couple cases, i wonder if that's why they smoke...because they assume it keeps them thin enough.

btw gsmonks, last time i checked, you're no doctor...and if you WERE, you'd know there are more causes than just "eating too much".

are many people overweight because they have poor diet habits? yes.

is EVERYONE who is overweight because they have poor diet habits? no.

so your "political correctness and excuses" BS is just that--BS. unless you show me a medical degree, all you are proving to me is that you are being extremely rude.

[Lord of the Sword]

trikay, on 27 July 2010 - 11:42 PM, said:

LotS---

Not arguing but...

what makes you think that teen has their every whim and desire met?

If you believe the kid is fat because they eat too much then maybe they are eating too much to fill the hole in their heart IE emotional eating...and emotional eating does not come from being indulged and spoiled.

Granted we do not know this kid...so we do not know the truth of how obese they are or why.

Honestly, I don't know for certain that everyone caters to this kid. Southwest obviously does...But what this episode has TAUGHT this kid, is that their every whim and desire will be catered to. Southwest has shown the kid this, so why shouldn't the kid continue to expect this kind of treatment from everyone???

And as for what Southwest did to Kevin Smith, who paid for 2 seats and still got kicked off...How they justified that one I don't know...But I'm surprised Kevin Smith didn't put together a short film, or something, making fun of Southwest...Perhaps showing Southwest airline crew constantly kicking off people slightly overweight...He could easily afford something like that, and the PR from it would've been very bad for Southwest.

[Cheile]

^ he might have one in the works for all we know.

you are still stretching on the "being catered to". the skinny b*tch had a standby ticket, NOT a regular paid for ticket. standby means NOT GUARANTEED.

maybe in the future she will learn to buy her tickets in advance. honestly, she should have in the first place, being how the article says she supposedly travels all the time for business.

and i'm calling her a b*tch by bringing this to the media. she wasn't happy with the treatment--fine. she should have handled it with Southwest and KEPT IT PRIVATE.

but no, she had to get her ten minutes of fat-hating fame even though she refuses to use her name. probly because she knows she'd get sh*t for her entitled attitude.

however, all it really does is make Southwest look worse, especially after the Kevin Smith incident. except this time they were mocking a child to another passenger whose business it was none of.

[SparkyCola]

I think it's simply not possible to make the HUGE assumption that this 14 year old kid is "spoiled" and "has every whim catered to". Come on, let's get real. You don't even know if this child is a boy or a girl. You know NOTHING about them except for the fact that they are overweight and their parents did not know they needed two seats. They are 14 years old- not a little child looking extremely simplistically at the way people behave to them. They don't think they are the centre of the world because an airline had to kick off a standby to let them on, because that's how fat they are. They probably feel embarrassed and ashamed, and they PROBABLY already get bullied at school for their weight, I can't know that of course, but I suspect the majority of obese children get bullied for it. Having it brought up in the news I expect heightens that embarrassment, and may increase any bullying they get.

Again, just speculating, but I think my speculations are more likely than yours, LotS. Just put yourself in that kid's shoes for a bit. Would YOU feel proud of yourself, would YOU feel like the centre of the world and just peachy if that were you who needed two seats because of your weight? I certainly wouldn't. I'd feel like total crap. And the ego of a 14 year old is more delicate, I reckon, than an adult.

Sparky

This post has been edited by SparkyCola: 28 July 2010 - 03:42 AM