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Holding out for the Best When Your Feeling Lucky


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#21 Orpheus

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 08:42 AM

Mid-to-late 20s *would* seem unreasonable. I'm looking at the 30s. a 10-15 year age difference doesn't seem very problematic to me. My own parents were in that range, and it's actually quite common both historically and across societies today. The expectation that the partners will be the same age is a modern/cultural development.

The gender gap in the average age at first marriage has been cut in half over the past century in the US (a historical eyeblink) and the difference at second marriage has always been higher.

But I'm not working on theoretical statistics. My own unpublished empirical research has shown that many women in their 30s, and even late 20s, can be compatible with a fogey like me. (remember: I'm looking at a partnership, not some romantic notion of a soulmate (which I reject). I don't believe you *find* soulmates (they aren't pre-made and waiting out there somewhere for you to find) but rather that you become soulmates by molding two souls together -- and even then, not completely -- complete melding may be lovely if it happens, but its kind of creepy as a goal.

Would *you* want to be melded with someone else? Or just have a committed 'friends with benefits' who brightens your day and lightens your load? I know the latter doesn't sound very romantic, but it seems more workable.

To me the big thing about an age gap is the future: aging is inevitable, as is personal growth and change, so it isn't necessarily fair to expect someone to foresee the changes in a relationship with a partner who is in a different life stage. You don't want to hobble your partner or feel hobbled by them. However, I see every day that youth is not a guarantee against disease or debility, and the partnership relies in the individuals, not their age. Though I mock the motto, I really do see that 40 is the new 30, and 50 (or more) is the new 40 -- assuming that one's health remains good, and one's mind remains unfossilized, a promise that life does not make to any of us.

Yeah, kids would take time from my projects. But so does everything else (dang real life!). On the other hand, they are a wonderful fertilizer for ideas and enthusiasm, as well as ... well, often helpful once they're school-age.

Right now, my parents are keeping me well in practice with managing attention-deficient creatures bent on mischief, diapers and many of the other demands that children make on the mythic free-wheeling freedom of an adult in the prime of life. Honestly, my kids were easier on even their worst days -- they knew they should obey, and why.

I guess I never fully understood the appeal of long stretches of "free time" as many people do. As a child I was forced to squander too many precious days and years until I could grow up and do the productive work/learning I impatiently yearned to do. To me, the tasks of life, though admittedly wearying at times, aren't interruptions to life, but are life itself. I find empty days more wearying than full ones. This has been a problem in some relationships.

#22 M.E.

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 11:16 AM

Well, big surprise, I didn't get lucky and win the lotto max.

But I did get lucky enough to get a glimpse into the future when I found this picture...

The future Orpheus offspring:

super-baby.jpg

Question: Do you think he will be able to find the time to change your diapers when he's 30? :whistle:

#23 D.Rabbit

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 01:53 PM

View PostOrpheus, on 28 August 2010 - 08:42 AM, said:

Mid-to-late 20s *would* seem unreasonable. I'm looking at the 30s. a 10-15 year age difference doesn't seem very problematic to me. My own parents were in that range, and it's actually quite common both historically and across societies today. The expectation that the partners will be the same age is a modern/cultural development.

Are you not worried about the complications and the degradation of the chromosomes after the age of 30 in women? Your own genetics could also be in question, depending on how well you have maintained your health. That is why I thought you where interested in a woman in her mid to late 20's.

It's going to be another crap shoot when it comes to healthy children and the avoidance of Down Syndrome, (children as in the above post) etc. It's okay to make yourself happy, but to knowingly take part in the act of producing another human being who may have collected frayed DNA from either or both parents, is questionable. Are you going to leave it to luck?

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The gender gap in the average age at first marriage has been cut in half over the past century in the US (a historical eyeblink) and the difference at second marriage has always been higher.
I find the duplicity totally unfair that it's okay for a man to take a younger spouse, but women get called names, like Cougar and cradle robber.

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But I'm not working on theoretical statistics. My own unpublished empirical research has shown that many women in their 30s, and even late 20s, can be compatible with a fogey like me.
Sure they can be compatible with you: :rolleyes:
I'm not trying to put you down dear heart, it's just that I know you fairly well after all these years, and your one hum dinger of a dude.
Your perfect spouse is going to have to have an IQ that will not embarrass you in a room of your peers. So that already eliminates 97% of population in the age bracket you seek.
Odds wise your luck is going to have to be on full beam to pull this one off!
I'm pretty sure, you will not be a happy camper with just a baby machine. Your going to want your children to have the advantages that someone as brilliant as yourself can give them.


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(remember: I'm looking at a partnership, not some romantic notion of a soul-mate (which I reject). I don't believe you *find* soul-mates (they aren't pre-made and waiting out there somewhere for you to find) but rather that you become soul-mates by molding two souls together -- and even then, not completely -- complete melding may be lovely if it happens, but its kind of creepy as a goal.

A soul-mate IMHO is someone who challenges you, helps you grow as a person. The melding and the bonding comes after the commitment. Soul-mates are not manufactured, they are, if your lucky, found. I consider you to be one of my soul-mates for the inspiration I have taken from you over our time on the web together. This to me has been excellent luck. I'm sure I have other soul-mates, but I have not met them yet.

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Would *you* want to be melded with someone else? Or just have a committed 'friends with benefits' who brightens your day and lightens your load? I know the latter doesn't sound very romantic, but it seems more workable.
Yes and yes to varying degrees.
The melding is a very dangerous practice on so many levels. With my history of spousal betrayal, the agony of the break is too intense to want to relive. Death of my bonded spouse would be unbearable as well as loss of them through dementia. Though the bonding would be a temporal reassurance, it is still in jeopardy of disintegration over time and personal changes.

I much prefer the second option.
However, I can see a little romance would not be unwelcome between two good friends.
That every once in a while they slip a love poem in your pocket, or steal a kiss, could only improve the relationship.

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To me the big thing about an age gap is the future: aging is inevitable, as is personal growth and change, so it isn't necessarily fair to expect someone to foresee the changes in a relationship with a partner who is in a different life stage. You don't want to hobble your partner or feel hobbled by them. However, I see every day that youth is not a guarantee against disease or debility, and the partnership relies in the individuals, not their age. Though I mock the motto, I really do see that 40 is the new 30, and 50 (or more) is the new 40 -- assuming that one's health remains good, and one's mind remains unfossilized, a promise that life does not make to any of us.
Good catch all philosophy, and your right.
I'm still as active as most folks half my age, not as active as I once was, but I suspect that high energy was one of the factors that left me single. It was also one of the reliefs of loosing that last ex. He was always with one problem or another. (Not that I fault him for the week it took to get over his vasectomy!) I was hobbled half the time, when I wasn't walking on eggs around him.

I'm looking for a younger man myself, around 50, 55 who has come to terms with his aging, still full of energy, at least enough to keep up with me, and the intellect to stimulate me, but I really don't hold out much hope.

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Yeah, kids would take time from my projects. But so does everything else (dang real life!). On the other hand, they are a wonderful fertilizer for ideas and enthusiasm, as well as ... well, often helpful once they're school-age.
First off the cuff flash: Child slavery has been abolished!
I use to and still do love to get into it with my son. We have always had wonderful conversations on just about anything. Wish he would get over his jealousy of my friendship with you, and join us in the Tinker's corner, maybe someday?

Which brings up our relationship? I know we don't have a relationship, but we do interact, which is close enough. If you take a spouse and have children, they will take up all the time you spend with us. So perhaps my response to your latest endeavor is a tad on the selfish side. We don't want to lose you.

I know I take off from time to time, but the fact that you are here when I return is always wonderful. Like coming to home to daddy.


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Right now, my parents are keeping me well in practice with managing attention-deficient creatures bent on mischief, diapers and many of the other demands that children make on the mythic free-wheeling freedom of an adult in the prime of life. Honestly, my kids were easier on even their worst days -- they knew they should obey, and why.
eek! Is it just me or was that your control freakishness talking?
You scare me sometimes.
However your kind heart and your ability to take situations like your interesting parents, in stride, is very impressive.
I have no doubts that you are an excellent parent/care giver.


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I guess I never fully understood the appeal of long stretches of "free time" as many people do. As a child I was forced to squander too many precious days and years until I could grow up and do the productive work/learning I impatiently yearned to do. To me, the tasks of life, though admittedly wearying at times, aren't interruptions to life, but are life itself. I find empty days more wearying than full ones. This has been a problem in some relationships.
Empty days?
Days are full of what ever you put into them.
One can not depend on another to fill them for you, that is, unless *you* engage them.

#24 M.E.

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 05:21 PM

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Your perfect spouse is going to have to have an IQ that will not embarrass you in a room of your peers. So that already eliminates 97% of population in the age bracket you seek.


:eek4: I can't believe you said that, D.Rabbit. You can be the smartest person in the room and still be the cause of an embarrassing moment.

Exhibit A:

The Greatest Show on Earth

#25 D.Rabbit

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 09:56 PM

What embarrassing moment?
Sounds like a wild free spirit with a lust for life to me.
I'd be right beside that maniac, watching mother nature put on a show of violence and dominance!

Perhaps I should have been more exact in my statement.

edit:Your perfect spouse is going to have to have enough intelligence so that they will not lower the IQ average in a room of your peers too much.

#26 Orpheus

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 02:19 AM

Nah, a lot of my RL friends aren't all that bright.

Either that, or they lack taste ... you'd expect one or the other, being my friends and all.

There are exceptions, but who knows *what* their deal is.

#27 D.Rabbit

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 08:01 AM

I suppose because of your age, that you are willing to settle for less then your ideal of the perfect mate?

She could just be a pet then? You can get your intellectual stimulus elsewhere.

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Or just have a committed 'friends with benefits' who brightens your day and lightens your load?
Bringing up this quote again.

"brighten your day"
Only if you are compatible, and not fighting over every little bit of minutia.
Unless you thrive on confrontation?

"lighten your load"
This is inaccurate IMHO. People don't lighten your load, they only complicate it.
Relationships take work, so what ever work you where doing before the relationship, it is just transformed into another type of work. If you don't do the work, your not going to be able to sustain the relationship.

I know your willing to do the work, no need to defend yourself.

As for someone to grow old with?
I thought I was going to grow old with you in our living room on the web.
Silly me.

#28 Orpheus

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 10:15 AM

A pet? I don't see it that way at all. Intellect is overrated. It's like being very tall -- some people admire it, others are threatened by it; it's useful for some things, but you'll bump your head a lot, stand out when you don't necessarily want to, and be awkward and uncomfortable in a world designed for shorter people. Why would I want a partner who was as tall as I? (I know many tall women insist on this, but that's just another "romantic ideal" IMHO)

Yes, it can be frustrating when a partner doesn't "get" your latest enthusiasm, insight or monomania, but I came to realize that wasn't a reasonable expectation *very* early on. I've rarely had a partner who thought anything like I did -- and when I did, they had their own enthusiasms, insights and monomanias which left me feeling alternately bored, bewildered and lowbrow -- even as I must have done to them. It was good to experience it from the other side, but to be honest, I'd already gotten the message quite eloquently from my more -typical?- girlfriends.

A relationship with a "gifted" partner has benefits and issues -- exactly like any other. I can't imagine finding someone whose interests and background would match mine (esp as they change over the years), so in the end a partner who is witty, has broad interests and at least open to hearing me rant is the best I can hope for whatever their --for lack of a better word -- IQ. That's not a stage of life change; it's a lesson of experience from my early 20s

You're right that I turn elsewhere for stimulation. That's the only fair solution. It's unreasonable to expect your partner to share all your interests -- even your friends don't. You go to some friends with some interests, and others for others. Learning that was one of the "moron moments" of my youth. Though I realized it intellectually not-to-unreasonably-late in my youth, it too me many years to work out in consistent practice.

Expecting one's partner to be all things only leads to mutual frustration, insecurities, resentments, defensive "locking out" and/or a host of other unpleasantries on both sides. It's another of those romantic ideals that I reject, and one that I've seen many talented people struggle with. Why make it harder to find a suitable by inserting that unnecessary criterion? That they will listen to, vaguely apprehend, and understand *your enthusiasm" (if not the subject) is enough of a blessing. Why would they care about lithium-fullerene furnace profiles or Mandarin? I certainly know I've struggled to care about (e.g.) Renaissance Italian art. I thought I had a reasonable interest in those things, certainly more than most, but not at her level of expert monomania.

As far as brightening one's day -- well, yeah, some people don't brighten your day. You try to pick up on that early; it's a definite rule-out. Other times it's just circumstantial; you try to work through that.

And lightening your load? ABSOLUTELY. That load may be yours to bear and resolve, but having a trusted friend with you absolutely lightens the load. For me, at least -- I'm sure it's different for others, but it's hard for me to imagine. Many a time I've appreciated the company of someone I loved while I slogged through a task or challenge that they couldn't help with -- even my kids filled that role. I don't know that they entirely understood some of the stuff we talked about (and I do know it turned them away from a few subjects as "boring", even as it ignited interests as others) but they seemed to enjoy the together time and showing their support. Kids are/can be much more grown up than we may give them credit for -- and adults are often far less grown up than we like to imagine.

I know you revel in being self-reliant. I'm just describing two two self-reliant people who open up to each other and share *bits* of each other's load. I never understood the romantic ideal "you complete me". I have had flashes of that feeling in my life, and it's glorious -- but really shouldn't *I* complete me? YOU can help complete US.

A pet? Hardly. Not even The Doctor's Companion (a repugnant analogy that a slightly self-centered friend once used for her fantasy partner). How could they be a pet --an appendage to my life-- when they have their own interests and life? Face it, however much some pet owners may sacrifice for their loved ones, pet are just accessories. How often do their life choices determine yours? In a partnership with an equal, their life choices ALWAYS do.

#29 D.Rabbit

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 04:33 PM

View PostOrpheus, on 30 August 2010 - 10:15 AM, said:

A pet? I don't see it that way at all. Intellect is overrated. It's like being very tall -- some people admire it, others are threatened by it; it's useful for some things, but you'll bump your head a lot, stand out when you don't necessarily want to, and be awkward and uncomfortable in a world designed for shorter people. Why would I want a partner who was as tall as I? (I know many tall women insist on this, but that's just another "romantic ideal" IMHO)
Finding someone as bright as you would certainly limit your options. Finding a Samantha Carter from SG1 would only be a fools errand. I was thinking more in the ball park of your diverse interests, then your average waitress would not be able to comprehend.

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Yes, it can be frustrating when a partner doesn't "get" your latest enthusiasm, insight or monomania, but I came to realize that wasn't a reasonable expectation *very* early on. I've rarely had a partner who thought anything like I did -- and when I did, they had their own enthusiasms, insights and monomanias which left me feeling alternately bored, bewildered and lowbrow -- even as I must have done to them. It was good to experience it from the other side, but to be honest, I'd already gotten the message quite eloquently from my more -typical?- girlfriends.

I hear you, there is a lot of what your up to that leaves me without enthusiasm, I totally glaze over when you go math mad. I know I come from a family of math addicts but I'm the black sheep there. However your hacking a GPS into a hand held computer did impress me, it's just I have no need for one atm.

Those, "typical" girlfriends where obviously the wrong girlfriends for you. Or you would not be still shopping around.

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A relationship with a "gifted" partner has benefits and issues -- exactly like any other. I can't imagine finding someone whose interests and background would match mine (esp as they change over the years), so in the end a partner who is witty, has broad interests and at least open to hearing me rant is the best I can hope for whatever their --for lack of a better word -- IQ. That's not a stage of life change; it's a lesson of experience from my early 20s

Ah ha! Caught you, "witty" has always been the marker of intelligence as well as someone with broad interests. So you are looking for more then a baby machine!

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You're right that I turn elsewhere for stimulation. That's the only fair solution. It's unreasonable to expect your partner to share all your interests -- even your friends don't. You go to some friends with some interests, and others for others. Learning that was one of the "moron moments" of my youth. Though I realized it intellectually not-to-unreasonably-late in my youth, it too me many years to work out in consistent practice.

We all do this, but I do feel it's important to point out that finding a mate with more then a few things in common, is probably your best bet.

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Expecting one's partner to be all things only leads to mutual frustration, insecurities, resentments, defensive "locking out" and/or a host of other unpleasantries on both sides. It's another of those romantic ideals that I reject, and one that I've seen many talented people struggle with. Why make it harder to find a suitable by inserting that unnecessary criterion?

Don't we all do that to some degree, have certain expectations of our mates?
I certainly would not consider someone who could not keep up with my energy level, it would be a remake of past disasters. I would not mate with a drug addict or an alcoholic either. Those have been my options in the past, and like so many of your "typical" girlfriends... pass. It's more an emotional survival instinct, to seek out someone with whom we have the most in common.

What if she likes to jog and you prefer to speed walk? There is that urge to exercise in common, and doing it together would be my preference, I would feel so inadequate if they where blocks ahead of me.

It just seems to me, and I'm probably wrong, that you are looking for a quick fix to what you feel is missing in your life, there are no quick fixes.


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That they will listen to, vaguely apprehend, and understand *your enthusiasm" (if not the subject) is enough of a blessing.
In most cases, but we are talking about you. Your statement looked at sideways, could also mean you are willing to lower your expectations. This is a good thing, certainly improves your odds.

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Why would they care about lithium-fullerene furnace profiles or Mandarin?
Because it's important to you? Because they could learn something that might give them an insight into your joys?
Because that's what mates should do, take an interest in each others passions. Not just a kiss at the door in the morning, a communal feed in the evening and a bump in the night. That is such an empty life.

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I certainly know I've struggled to care about (e.g.) Renaissance Italian art. I thought I had a reasonable interest in those things, certainly more than most, but not at her level of expert monomania.

So did she have big knockers? What was the attraction? Obviously she was Ms Wrong for you.
People with limited monomania, (I suppose monomania and limit interests are synonymous,) need to find those who share in their passions du jour. I'm so diverse I find it very difficult to get caught up on one subject when their is a smörgåsbord to indulge in. Yes that makes me a dilettante, and I'm proud of it!

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As far as brightening one's day -- well, yeah, some people don't brighten your day. You try to pick up on that early; it's a definite rule-out. Other times it's just circumstantial; you try to work through that.
Work through it or do as I do with you when you have done things that annoy me, click. One can't do that in real life. For the most part you do brighten my life and I will miss you when your hooked up.

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And lightening your load? ABSOLUTELY. That load may be yours to bear and resolve, but having a trusted friend with you absolutely lightens the load. For me, at least -- I'm sure it's different for others, but it's hard for me to imagine. Many a time I've appreciated the company of someone I loved while I slogged through a task or challenge that they couldn't help with -- even my kids filled that role. I don't know that they entirely understood some of the stuff we talked about (and I do know it turned them away from a few subjects as "boring", even as it ignited interests as others) but they seemed to enjoy the together time and showing their support. Kids are/can be much more grown up than we may give them credit for -- and adults are often far less grown up than we like to imagine.

That kind of load. Yes having back up always helps. I was speaking of domestic chores. Someone always seem to get the toilet bowl brush award in the relationships I've experienced. That's another reason I was happy to say goodbye to my ex. Not only did I have to keep my place clean but his as well? Sorry, I'm as domestic as the next person but I don't do times 2.

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I know you revel in being self-reliant.

Revel? No, endure at being self-reliant. After all, when one has been abandoned as often as I have, one only has one choice, and that is to be self-reliant.

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I'm just describing two two self-reliant people who open up to each other and share *bits* of each other's load. I never understood the romantic ideal "you complete me". I have had flashes of that feeling in my life, and it's glorious -- but really shouldn't *I* complete me? YOU can help complete US.
Is that a proposal?   :freakingout:  :freakingout2:
;)
The completion that male and female bring to each other is their male/female energies. These energies are so strong, that they give the couple a feeling of euphoria, which is misinterpreted as love and thought to be the completion oft spoken of. That walking on air that eventually drops you down to ground zero is only temporary. If the couple do not have a strong friendship as well as common interests, it's going to be a bumpy ride down to the divorce court.

One completes oneself by finding the alternative energy that resides within each of us.
I know you have certainly made it clear that you are in touch with your feminine side. I myself am very much in touch with my masculine side. People like us, don't really needs mates, but when we do come together,
it's as a "Power Couple."

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A pet? Hardly. Not even The Doctor's Companion (a repugnant analogy that a slightly self-centered friend once used for her fantasy partner). How could they be a pet --an appendage to my life-- when they have their own interests and life? Face it, however much some pet owners may sacrifice for their loved ones, pet are just accessories. How often do their life choices determine yours? In a partnership with an equal, their life choices ALWAYS do.
So you are looking for an equal, or close to it, good, I'm happy for you.
Hope she brightens your days, gives you a purpose to succeed and steams up your nights!

#30 M.E.

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 05:23 PM

:eat:

#31 Orpheus

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 06:50 PM

Well, I'm certainly looking for more than a baby machine. How boring (and demeaning) would that be!

I hope I haven't given the wrong impression of my "more typical" girlfriends. They were wonderful. I was just young, and not ready to manage things yet. I consider those relationships to be more failures on my parts than theirs (but I don't regret them much. Such mistakes are inevitable learning experiences when you're young)

It definitely wasn't knockers (I like breasts just fine, but I've always felt the "bigger is better" meme was just a tool, a simple ruler-guide, of an adolescent mind to distinguish from among an embarrassment of riches. This seems to fossilize over the years, with help from media and peer influences, into a sort of fetish). She was actually pretty cool. I just couldn't bring myself to share that interest on a level that matched her steadily rising expectations of me, and she couldn't understand why. I couldn't tell you myself -- I have at times mastered more difficult things for lesser reasons. It was just the wrong time and circumstances I guess. We could have made it work, but there didn't seem to be any *need* to, for either of us.

I guess that may be part of my outlook (a longstanding part) that rankles some people: I believe that there are a lot of people a typical person could build a happily working relationship with, were it necessary. It wouldn't be hard or unpleasant -- nor would the outcome necessarily be measurably different, after a decade, than the partners they actually choose. Indeed this whole conversation gives me the uncomfortable sense that I should be working more actively at finding a suitable --emphasis on "suitable"-- partner, if I want to pursue this

Basically, most human beings are miracles. Compared to that miracle, the rest is "details" as far as quality goes. Of course you have to look for someone suited to the role. Hence, the age, which I would otherwise not highly value.

If I were to be brutally honest and dispassionate, I would guess that there is a fair probability that I might get sucked into a relationship with a woman who already has small children. "Sucked into" may sound bad, but it just describes the powerful attraction I feel to family. It's a long story, but that's how I ended up with my ex, though we knew we were wrong from each other, since we'd first dated many years before, and we never changed that assessment. We were both very kid-oriented but she wasn't very partner-oriented, and I was fine with that. Still, it was a wonderful experience while the kids were growing up, just not for growing old together.

Let's just say I have more than a little experience with "making it work" and the joys possible therein.

#32 D.Rabbit

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:29 PM



#33 D.Rabbit

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:39 AM

What about adoption?
There is a continent not too far away from you filled with AIDS orphaned children that you could give a good home to.

Instant family!
Just add love and stir.

#34 Orpheus

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 11:11 AM

Yeah, adoption may be an option later. It's not my first choice. And medically involved kids was my ex's joy, not mine.

#35 M.E.

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:03 PM

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Yeah, adoption may be an option...


There's a song in there, somewhere. :unsure:

Please forgive me but, I seem to have lost track. :dontgetit:

Who's feeling lucky here?

#36 D.Rabbit

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 11:31 PM

I blame this one on you ME


He's feeling lucky
He wants to go forth
To engage a partner
With whom to hold court.

He wants a family
To bring him joy
The kind you feel
Holding a child's toy.

Adoption may be an option
If copulation proves barren.
It's young spirits and their laughter
Sincerely seeks this Alpha Stallion.

Kids and babies, Kids and babies,
What do you bring to being?
Is it the future he never will see?

Long live his genetic sequence
For earth's prosperities sake.
He could clone them (that's an option?)
In a surrogate's oven to bake.

Kids and babies, Kids and babies,
What do you bring to being?
Is it the future he never will see?

edit: after all that nonsense, I forgot to run the spell check!

Edited by D.Rabbit, 01 September 2010 - 06:37 AM.

7 verses I know you're there behind the veil.

#37 M.E.

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 08:48 AM

:clap: That's a terrific song, D.Rabbit! As I have stated before, I think you are very talented.

I am happy to have been an inspiration. :waves:

#38 D.Rabbit

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 09:11 AM

I have been beating myself up lately for watching too many videos and playing video games and I truly needed you to kick start me into what I will only call, "a muse."

I did put a dead line on it, so it's a little underdeveloped, but for a piece of fluff and fun it's not too awful.

Thank you both for being such great inspirational food.

Hope I brightened your day Orph, if only for a moment.

#39 M.E.

M.E.
  • Islander
  • 7,902 posts

Posted 01 September 2010 - 09:55 AM

Pop 'n' Fresh.. :howling: I love it!!

#40 Orpheus

Orpheus

    I'm not the boss of you!

  • Administrator
  • 17,727 posts

Posted 01 September 2010 - 11:29 AM

Very impressive!


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