Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Presidential panel exonorates BP

BP Oil Spill Exoneration 2011

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Palisades

Palisades

    Northern Lights

  • Islander
  • 7,753 posts

Posted 08 November 2010 - 11:28 PM

Spill panel: No evidence of saving $ over safety

Quote

WASHINGTON – The BP oil rig explosion and spill wasn't about anyone purposely trading money for safety, investigators on a special presidential commission said Monday. Instead it was more about seemingly acceptable risks adding up to disaster.

Investigators at the commission's hearing outlined more than a dozen decisions that at the time seemed questionable but also explainable. It was how those cascaded and crashed together that fueled catastrophe.

Yet there was no evidence of a conscious decision on the BP rig to do things on the cheap at the expense of safety, investigators stressed several times. Likewise, representatives of the companies involved in the disaster denied that corners were cut because of cost...

Not everyone agrees. One of the nation's top technological disaster academics said the spill commission — appointed by President Barack Obama — was a "cover-up" from the White House. Charles Perrow, a Yale University professor who wrote the disaster sociology classic "Normal Accidents" said the investigation was overlooking BP's track record of disasters that have come after cost cutting.

"There's a long history of dollars versus safety at this organization," Perrow said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. He referred specifically to BP's 2005 Texas City oil refinery explosion in which federal officials cited a culture of cost-cutting at the expense of safety. In 2006, BP's lack of leak detection caused a massive pipeline spill, the largest on Alaska's North Slope to date.

Edited by Palisade, 08 November 2010 - 11:30 PM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#2 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:08 AM

"Exonerates" is not what happened here.  

Investigator Finds No Evidence That BP Took Shortcuts to Save Money

Quote

WASHINGTON — The lead investigator for the presidential panel delving into the BP oil spill said on Monday that he had found no evidence that anyone involved in drilling the doomed well had taken safety shortcuts to save money.

Fred H. Bartlit Jr., a prominent trial lawyer hired to lead the panel’s inquiry, disputed the findings of other investigators, including plaintiffs’ lawyers and members of Congress, who have charged that BP and its main partners, Transocean and Halliburton, had cut corners to speed completion of the well, which cost $1.5 million a day to drill.

“To date we have not seen a single instance where a human being made a conscious decision to favor dollars over safety,” Mr. Bartlit said on Monday as he opened a detailed presentation on the causes of the April 20 disaster on a drilling rig off the Louisiana coast, which killed 11 workers and led to the biggest offshore oil spill in American history. “They want to be efficient, they don’t want to waste money, but they also don’t want to get their buddies killed.”

Mr. Bartlit noted that a number of critical questions about the accident remained in dispute, including the cause of the failure of the cement at the bottom of the well, why BP and its partners went ahead with trying to close in the well after it failed an important pressure test and why crew members failed for too long to recognize that oil and gas were gushing up the well bore.

He indicated that a number of the contributing causes of the explosion might remain a mystery, because the evidence sank with the drilling rig or because the causes arose from decisions made by men who were killed or badly injured in the blowout....
At best, "we may never know" happened.
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#3 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:17 AM

Quote

Fred H. Bartlit Jr., a prominent trial lawyer hired to lead the panel’s inquiry, disputed the findings of other investigators, including plaintiffs’ lawyers and members of Congress, who have charged that BP and its main partners, Transocean and Halliburton, had cut corners to speed completion of the well, which cost $1.5 million a day to drill.

“To date we have not seen a single instance where a human being made a conscious decision to favor dollars over safety,” Mr. Bartlit said on Monday as he opened a detailed presentation on the causes of the April 20 disaster on a drilling rig off the Louisiana coast, which killed 11 workers and led to the biggest offshore oil spill in American history. “They want to be efficient, they don’t want to waste money, but they also don’t want to get their buddies killed.”

This is b*llsh*t. It's spin. Of course they "want to be efficient" and "don't want to waste money," so they cut corners. Those corners were there for safety reasons. So they made the conscious decision to bypass safety regulations and cut corners to make more money. That's not the same thing as to "want to get their buddies killed."

I may decide to save money this fall and not get my furnace cleaned and checked. The furnace may blow up and burn down my house. That doesn't mean I didn't sacrifice safety for money in a very shortsighted way. Nor does it mean I wanted my house to blow up.

I don't know if Mr. Bartlit is stupid or if he just thinks most everyone else is.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#4 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:27 AM

 Spectacles, on 09 November 2010 - 10:17 AM, said:

This is b*llsh*t.

Meanwhile, I know someone selling the Brooklyn Bridge for $10. He's just looking for a few sucke-umm, sorry-buyers. It was a quarter, but the cost went up a bit. :p
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#5 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:32 AM

Quote

“They want to be efficient, they don’t want to waste money, but they also don’t want to get their buddies killed.”

"Buddies", my A$$. :barf:

:glare:
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#6 Julianus

Julianus
  • Islander
  • 1,660 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:44 AM

Quote

Charles Perrow, a Yale University professor who wrote the disaster sociology classic "Normal Accidents" said the investigation was overlooking BP's track record of disasters that have come after cost cutting.

"There's a long history of dollars versus safety at this organization," Perrow said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. He referred specifically to BP's 2005 Texas City oil refinery explosion in which federal officials cited a culture of cost-cutting at the expense of safety. In 2006, BP's lack of leak detection caused a massive pipeline spill, the largest on Alaska's North Slope to date.

This is what bothers me. For some time the BP corporate culture seems to have been very lax in regard to instituting and following safety protocols and of course the government department charged with overseeing the company's implementation of safety standards has also proved to be worthless in the case of BP.

Pax,
Julianus

#7 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:03 AM

Oh, the MMS is totally corrupt. So are many of the regulatory agencies. They've been staffed over the years with people who are close to the industries they're supposed to regulate.

http://scienceblogs...._corruption.php

Quote

Politico has published a report from the Inspector General of the Interior Department about the Minerals Management Service and their far-too-close relationship with the oil industry. All of the things discussed in the report took place prior to 2007, but it still provides an excellent picture of what goes on in regulatory agencies throughout the government.

The report includes employees of MMS taking rides to sporting events on private jets owned by the oil companies, the routine giving of expensive gifts to regulators by oil companies, including hunting and fishing trips. And all of this was at the Lake Charles MMS office -- the one that handles the Gulf of Mexico directly.

Here's one of the more serious problems uncovered in the report:

    Finally, we determined that between June and July 2008, an MMS inspector conducted four inspections on IOC platforms while in the process of negotiating and later accepting employment with the company.


IOC is the Island Operating Company. And the people in charge regard this as routine and normal:

    We showed MMS Lake Charles District Manager Larry Williamson nine photos named, "LSU football pictures," that we discovered on a former MMS inspector's computer. Williamson identified two MMS inspectors in the pictures, which showed tailgating festivities at the Peach Bowl game.

    According to Williamson, many of the MMS inspectors had worked for the oil and gas industry and continued to be friends with industry representatives. "Obviously, we're all oil industry," he said. "We're all from the same part of the country. Almost all of our inspectors have worked for oil companies out on these same platforms. They grew up in the same towns. Some of these people, they've been friends with all their life. They've been with these people since they were kids. They've hunted together. They fish together. They skeet shoot together ....They do this all the time."


That 2005 Peach Bowl game was paid for by the oil company and the employees were flown to it on the company's private jet. So we have people from the oil companies working as regulators, accepting expensive gifts from those companies, not complying with ethics requirements to report those gifts, and then negotiating new jobs with the oil companies after they leave their government job.

Gosh, I can't imagine how an oil company gets waivers from environmental regulations, can you?


This is "regulatory capture." If "conservative" politicians can't disband government regulatory agencies to "limit government," they can see to it that those agencies don't enforce regulations on corporate donors. And Dems, who are trying to follow the GOP's lead to make enough $$$ to get elected, are doing the same.

I would bet that many of our regulatory agencies have been "captured" by the industries they are supposed to regulate. This is a good thing, according to Republicans, who don't care for regulations that cost businesses money. The market eventually takes care of these things. Enough people die and sue, and the companies regulate themselves--for a while. We don't need no stankin' regulations. And now the the GOP is control of the House appropriations committees, maybe they can help matters along. After all, it's the right, un-communistic thing to do.

Edited by Spectacles, 09 November 2010 - 11:04 AM.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#8 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:29 AM

Of course, they didn't want their 'buddies' to get killed...but those safety procedures are there for a reason.  Everybody thinks they take do it the fast, easy way and nothing bad will happen...until it does.

If the only reasons for the failure occurred on the DWH because of decisions made there by those men and supervisors, it would be one thing.  Then you could say it was a random thing but some decisions likely came from higher up when it came to materials used in drilling etc

It just seems that from BP's past history that the company builds a culture of taking 'shortcuts', making those bad decisions  and choices at both the corporate level and in the field.

And someone..nay, everyone at  BP needs to stop/change that mindset. Or at least learn from their mistakes and quit making them at the expense of everyone else on the planet

And those who are supposed to be monitoring/regulating BP need to do their jobs.  Punish them for the things you do know they did do wrong in this case because those actions contributed to what happened.  Not the only reason for DWH perhaps but definitely contributed to it.

Edited by Tricia, 09 November 2010 - 11:33 AM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#9 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 12:28 PM

And speaking of Republican hostility toward regulations--of the uncaptured variety:

http://www.politico....tigate_EPA.html

Quote

November 08, 2010


Sensenbrenner: Keep climate panel alive so I can investigate EPA

One of the top climate skeptics in the House is asking GOP leadership to keep the Democrats’ global warming committee alive to investigate the Obama administration’s environmental policies.

Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), ranking member of the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming, is making good on his promise to pitch Republicans to revamp the committee to focus on the costs of Environmental Protection Agency regulations.

“The threat of the EPA’s reach into the economy is so great that it deserves special attention this Congress,
and no panel has developed more experience on these topics than the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming,” Sensenbrenner said in a statement. “These regulations are moving quickly, but the oversight and subpoena power wielded by the Select Committee would put a tall hurdle in the path and would further expose the economic destruction these policies would bring.”

It’s been widely speculated that Republican leadership would ditch the panel, which was launched by Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to bring attention to global warming.

Sensenbrenner hopes to discuss prospects for the committee overhaul with leadership when lawmakers return next week, said his spokesman Terry Lane.

Thanks for helping me to make my point, sir. And thanks to all of you who voted Republican for helping to make this happen. The GOP couldn't protect industries from costly regulations to prevent air, water and ground pollution without you.

Edited by Spectacles, 09 November 2010 - 12:28 PM.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#10 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 01:03 PM

This is what happens when people vote against something like a specific party or the incumbent rather than voting for someone or something.

They risk getting something they didn't want or need or that will just plain hurt them in the long run.

I know it's asking for too much but I wish (yea, that word again  :rolleyes: ) people would educate themselves about the issues and the candidates instead of voting on emotion or to punish.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#11 Talkie Toaster

Talkie Toaster

    There's no Shepard without Vakarian

  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 01:54 PM

This presidential commission was time well spent then!
Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.

#12 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 09 November 2010 - 02:03 PM

What Specs said.  Again.
Posted Image

#13 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,226 posts

Posted 20 February 2011 - 06:31 AM

http://www.google.co...4fbe2d7ff275ffb

Quote

Oil from the BP spill remains stuck on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, according to a scientist's video and slides that demonstrate the oil isn't degrading as hoped and has decimated life on parts of the sea floor.
At a science conference in Washington, marine scientist Samantha Joye of the University of Georgia aired early results of her December submarine dives around the BP spill site. She went to places she had visited in the summer and expected the oil and residue from oil-munching microbes would be gone by then. It wasn't.

"There's some sort of a bottleneck we have yet to identify for why this stuff doesn't seem to be degrading,"
...
Joye's research was more widespread, but has been slower in being published in scientific literature.

In five different expeditions, the last one in December, Joye and colleagues took 250 cores of the sea floor and travelled across 2,600 square miles. Some of the locations she had been studying before the oil spill on April 20 and said there was a noticeable change. Much of the oil she found on the sea floor — and in the water column — was chemically fingerprinted, proving it comes from the BP spill. Joye is still waiting for results to show other oil samples she tested are from BP's Macondo well.

She also showed pictures of oil-choked bottom-dwelling creatures. They included dead crabs and brittle stars — starfish like critters that are normally bright orange and tightly wrapped around coral. These brittle stars were pale, loose and dead. She also saw tube worms so full of oil they suffocated.

I'm not surprised, but because it is not highly visible (ie. on the beaches and in the marshes) it is an out of sight out of mind for some.


And an update on what Spectacles was bringing up, re: the EPA and GOP, also from Politico:
http://www.politico....0211/49857.html

Quote

House Republicans led a charge late into the night Friday against Obama administration decisions to regulate greenhouse gas emissions, block mountaintop removal mining and allow increased use of ethanol in gasoline.

The continuing resolution faces an uphill climb in the Senate and a veto threat from President Barack Obama, but the myriad votes against the administration's energy and environmental initiatives this week will likely not be the last.
...
The entire debate – covering hundreds of amendments over several days – was largely anticlimactic as well-worn partisan differences ruled the day. Democrats didn’t even bother to offer amendments aimed at stripping out the Republican language trumping EPA’s ability to regulate greenhouse gas emissions.

“I didn’t see any reason to,” Energy and Commerce ranking member Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) told POLITICO late Friday. “I didn’t want to make a bad bill any better. I didn’t think it was likely to pass given the makeup of the House.”

Waxman noted that an amendment Friday afternoon from Rep. Ted Poe and fellow Texas Republicans that minimally clarified the language already in the underlying bill won 249-176, falling short of the two-thirds needed to overcome an expected White House veto.

“I don’t know what they gained by it but they made me feel pretty good,” Waxman said.

With Senate Democrats insisting that Republican policy riders must be removed in order to pass a short-term spending plan and avoid a government shutdown, there is seemingly little likelihood that any of the amendments passed by the House will make it to the president’s desk.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#14 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 20 February 2011 - 01:12 PM

I wish I could say I was surprised, but I'm not. What little respect I had for Obama, just sank with this report. Same way BP CAUSED their rig to explode and sink...even if Obama (I refuse to give him the title of President any longer) doesn't want to admit it, to save his buddies...big oil.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#15 Nikcara

Nikcara

    confused little imp

  • Islander
  • 3,500 posts

Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:17 PM

The report is a load of BS.  I agree with basically everyone else here, and I am disappointed in Obama.  

Do they really think the American people are this dumb?
We have fourty million reasons for failure, but not a single excuse  -- Rudyard Kipling

Develop compassion for your enemies, that is genuine compassion.  Limited compassion cannot produce this altruism.  -- H. H. the Dalai Lama



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: BP Oil Spill, Exoneration, 2011

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users