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Convicted Priest Dead...

Obituaries John Geoghan Priest 2003

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#41 ElJay

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 07:48 AM

{{{{{{{{Norville, Morrhigan}}}}}}}}}}}} {{{{{all victims of child molesters}}}}}}} You aren't alone.  When my sister had children, I made damn certain that she knew never to leave them alone with our father.  Don't know why, but he never laid a hand on her... and no one ever suspected what he was doing to me and to my brothers.  I would never have told, either (seemed pointless as I had no proof of anything) but she had two beautiful, sweet innocent lives; at that point, I knew if I stayed silent anything that happened to them would be my fault, even if his assaults on me weren't.

Sad to say, my initial reaction to the death of this monster is, "Payback is a b****."  On sober reflection, knowing the amount of anguish that his victims have gone through first hand, that is still my reaction.  You do not rehabilitate rabid dogs.  I wish I could find some grain of sympathy or compassion for him, but I can't.  I hope he likes bonfires.
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#42 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 08:17 AM

Morrhigan, on Aug 24 2003, 12:11 AM, said:

So, while one part of me screams 'kill child molesters upon capture!', another part says, wait a minute. Much though I hate to admit it, they are human beings. They should at least have the oportunity to learn remorse and a chance to reform their behavior.
That would have to depend on your defination of "Human Being", but that's another thread entirely.

After having read some of the responses to my question of "Why should we isolate child molesters"? I have to admit, as much as I hate to, that they do need to be isolated.

It's just that a part of me wishes that they wouldn't. Let these...things (I won't call them human beings, because, IMO, they aren't human beings) would get killed.

I mean, look at the pros...

A predator is off the streets for good.

Tax payers save some money.

No more children will ever be molested by this thing again.

Now, the cons...

It's against the law.

Possible lawsuit by the thing's family.

Hmmm. That 3 for pros, and 2 for cons...Unless I forgot a few cons. Just woke up so that's entirely possible  :p

As for the guards....

*Unsheathes his sword and salutes them*

These people deal with the worst of Society on a daily basis. If a few child molestors get wacked by other inmates, before they can react, I won't loose any sleep.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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#43 Laoise

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 02:16 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Aug 24 2003, 07:17 AM, said:

That would have to depend on your defination of "Human Being", but that's another thread entirely.
My defination of a "human being" is a being that is human.  It's genetics that determines species.

From my Concise Oxford Dictionary:

Quote

human 1.a. of or belonging to the genus Homo, distinguished form animals by superio mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright posture; that is human or consists of human beings (human creature, race)

Sounds to me like this is nothing more than the murder of a human being.  It is murder under slightly unusual circumstances, yes, but it is most definately murder.  Those who murdered him should be taken to task for their actions and treated in ways identical to any other murderers.

I hope the murderer(s) will be punished for this crime.

Edited by Laoise, 24 August 2003 - 02:20 PM.

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#44 G1223

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 04:40 PM

Yes it would be true justice if his killers were given death for killing the child molster. I would argue that they gave the victims of his crimes the justice that was missing.

The Chinese were sometimes right with the words. "Sometimes Vengence is Justice"
definatly not all the time but in this case most definaltly.
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#45 Laoise

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 10:33 PM

I never said the murderers should themselves be killed, as I believe that the murder of any human being is wrong.  I also believe the celebration and condoning of any murder is wrong.

It bothers me that so many in this thread are willing to pass off a murder of a human as acceptable simply because the human in question had done wrong.  It makes me sad for society.

And it makes me very very sad for the family of this priest, who have lost a family member and will have to hear of people celebrating his death.  How awful they must feel :(
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#46 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 10:47 PM

Laoise, on Aug 24 2003, 03:16 PM, said:

My defination of a "human being" is a being that is human.  It's genetics that determines species.

From my Concise Oxford Dictionary:

Quote

human 1.a. of or belonging to the genus Homo, distinguished form animals by superio mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright posture; that is human or consists of human beings (human creature, race)

I have to ask, just so I don't misunderstand. Are you saying that a Child Molester isn't a thing, but a human being because: "He has superio mental development"?

Let's examine your defination. A monkey, for example, and by your defination, is more human then a child molester.

You don't see Monkey's molesting and raping their young. So far, IMO, they have superio mental development over a child molester.

Both the monkey and the molester have the power of speech, and upright posture.

So, by your defination, and IMO, a child molester isn't a human being.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#47 Blondie

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 10:48 PM

What I think is sad is the fact that if this priest had outright murdered 130 people, then he would have been given the death penalty.  Instead, he has horribly affected tens of young impressionable minds who trusted him.  That's worse than murder...that's a sick betrayal of the worst kind.

Many of his alleged molestation victims were simply fondled...that's something you can get over.  OTOH, if you were a ten year old boy and forced to blow an older man...that crap is going to require counseling, and reliable counseling is expensive.

But let's say you don't get counseling, because your poor, or your parents don't want others to know that you were molested by the Padre because of the stigma.  Molestation victims, untreated, have a higher chance of becoming molesters.

Estimates now are that there are over 1000 child molestation victims in the Boston area that were preyed on by Catholic priests.  IF this guy did what they say he did, then he's responsible for over 1/10th of them.

And of course every human being deserves consideration.  What about those who chose to abandon the standards of civilization and prey on the young in this fashion?  We'd shoot a rabid dog...but not a two-legged creature.

Good riddance to bad rubbish and hooray for the strangler.  I'll still bake him cookies.
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#48 Laoise

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 10:50 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Aug 24 2003, 09:47 PM, said:

Laoise, on Aug 24 2003, 03:16 PM, said:


My defination of a "human being" is a being that is human.  It's genetics that determines species.

From my Concise Oxford Dictionary:

Quote

human 1.a. of or belonging to the genus Homo, distinguished form animals by superio mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright posture; that is human or consists of human beings (human creature, race)

I have to ask, just so I don't misunderstand. Are you saying that a Child Molester isn't a thing, but a human being because: "He has superio mental development"?

Let's examine your defination. A monkey, for example, and by your defination, is more human then a child molester.

You don't see Monkey's molesting and raping their young. So far, IMO, they have superio mental development over a child molester.

Both the monkey and the molester have the power of speech, and upright posture.

So, by your defination, and IMO, a child molester isn't a human being.
I ... wasn't aware monkeys had the power of articulate speech!  I've certainly never heard one articulate.  If so, then my dictionary is out of date.

I'll change that to the defination I was orginally going to use then:  A human is a form of life which has the genetic code to be classifed as a member of the species.

That certainly means the priest was a human.  A very very bad human who should have rotted in prision, but a human nonetheless.
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#49 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 10:53 PM

Laoise, on Aug 24 2003, 11:50 PM, said:

I ... wasn't aware monkeys had the power of articulate speech!  I've certainly never heard one articulate.  If so, then my dictionary is out of date.

I'll change that to the defination I was orginally going to use then:  A human is a form of life which has the genetic code to be classifed as a member of the species.

That certainly means the priest was a human.  A very very bad human who should have rotted in prision, but a human nonetheless.
Your previous defination didn't specify that it had to be "Human speech" or "words" It only said speech. Monkeys talk to each other all the time, and understand each other. The fact that we don't understand their speech...well, we're not monkeys.

Edited by LORD of the SWORD, 24 August 2003 - 11:01 PM.

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#50 Morrhigan

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 11:00 PM

THP wrote:

Quote

Many of his alleged molestation victims were simply fondled...that's something you can get over.

My first reaction to this statement is, "b*llsh*t." But I can only speak from my own experience. If you can quote studies or even anecdotal evidence from mental health professionals that supports this statement, I'd like to hear it.

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#51 Blondie

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 11:09 PM

Morrhigan, on Aug 24 2003, 10:00 PM, said:

THP wrote:

Quote

Many of his alleged molestation victims were simply fondled...that's something you can get over.

My first reaction to this statement is, "b*llsh*t." But I can only speak from my own experience. If you can quote studies or even anecdotal evidence from mental health professionals that supports this statement, I'd like to hear it.

Morrhigan
At this moment, I can't quote any evidence.  Like you, I'm running on personal experience.  At age 11, an older male friend of my cousin reached in my shorts and penetrated me with his finger.  I ran like hell and told, and he got his ass kicked for it.  No cops, no counseling for him, just an asswhipping from my Dad.  The guy was 22 BTW...twice my age.  I basically don't care anymore other than to feel disgust for him.

The complexity of the act can dictate whether or not the victim emotionally recovers from it and how fast they do so.  In my case, my recovery came from the opportunity to kick him in the balls later when I caught *him* alone.
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#52 Morrhigan

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 11:18 PM

There are many, many factors to consider: how many times it occurred, who did it, the age of the victim, etc. I'm glad that you were able to kick him in the balls, LOL, and that it didn't do any severe emotional damage.

My case - with apologies to people who don't like hearing so much personal info - involved my grandfather, multiple offenses over a period of years, beginning so young that I can't remember a specific age. I've been in therapy, on and off, for most of my adult life. So, when I hear someone characterize "just fondling" as something you can "get over", I get, ah... kinda pissed off.

Sorry if I snapped at you.  :)

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#53 Blondie

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 11:31 PM

No that's ok...I hold people to facts too...so don't worry about that.

I'm also sorry about your situation.  Down the road from my town is another town that is notorious for incest, rape, molestation, date rape...you name it.  I've heard about 30 different stories from women there who have gone to college with me, and you'd be surprised how many of them involve a grandparent.

As far as too much personal details, this is a touchy subject that involves touchy details.  Let the chips fall where they may.
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#54 Bad Wolf

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 11:43 PM

Morrhigan, on Aug 24 2003, 09:00 PM, said:

THP wrote:

Quote

Many of his alleged molestation victims were simply fondled...that's something you can get over.

My first reaction to this statement is, "b*llsh*t." But I can only speak from my own experience. If you can quote studies or even anecdotal evidence from mental health professionals that supports this statement, I'd like to hear it.

Morrhigan
Well it depends on what "get over" really means.
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#55 Blondie

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 04:51 PM

I've been reading The Manson Women by Clara Livsey, MD.  In the introduction to her book, she suggests that American society has become insulated to violence because it is packaged and presented in a certain manner by the media which relieves us of the obligation to face violence as it really appears.  

I wonder if this is a reason our penal system has become so lax over the last three decades or so with violent offenders.  We hear the details...prisoner X molested an 8 month old baby, for example, those damaging it physically...but the details don't "click" on a level that makes us want to rid ourselves of such a person.
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#56 Blondie

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 04:59 PM

BTW, here are the details, if anyone is interested...

http://www.foxnews.c...3,95630,00.html
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#57 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 06:57 AM

For some reason, AOL wouldn't let me make a link, so here is the article. Apparently, the guy who killed the thing had been planning it for over a month.

Quote

WORCESTER, Mass. (Aug. 26) - Prosecutors investigating the prison death of defrocked priest John Geoghan want to know if security procedures broke down at the facility, allowing a neo-Nazi who hated homosexuals the opportunity to confront a convicted pedophile.

Joseph L. Druce, who is serving a life term for killing a gay man 15 years ago, is accused of strangling Geoghan to death on Saturday at the Souza-Baranowski Correctional Center in Shirley.

``Right now we are going to do a thorough review and re-evaluate all of our policies and procedures,'' state Public Safety Secretary Ed Flynn said Monday. ``We cannot escape the fact that an inmate died while in the care of the Department of Correction.''

Gov. Mitt Romney on Monday appointed a panel to conduct an independent investigation. Surveillance cameras filming the protective custody unit while the attack took place also are being reviewed.

District Attorney John J. Conte said part of the investigation would try to determine how many cells should be opened at any one time on the protective-custody block and whether there is enough staffing at the prison.

Two correctional officers typically patrol the area where the attack took place, but one of the officers was assigned elsewhere during Geoghan's assault, according to The New York Times and the Boston Globe.

Jim Pingeon, director of litigation for the prisoners' rights group Massachusetts Correctional Legal Services, also told the Times another prisoner had tried to warn jailers about the impending attack, but they took no action.

Conte said Druce, who has been cooperating with investigators, told investigators he planned the attack for over a month. Druce is believed to have acted alone.

''He looked upon Father Geoghan as a prize,'' Conte said. ''No question he had been planning it for well over a month.''

Kelly Nantel, the state Department of Correction public affairs director, told the Globe the department's policy is to keep any two inmates with a documented history of antagonism apart, even if that means allowing only one into the protective custody unit.

Druce and Geoghan had just finished lunch in their cells and were let out to return their trays when Druce followed Geoghan into his cell before the doors were locked again. Druce was in Cell 21, while Geoghan was in Cell 2.

In the upper track of the cell door, Druce jammed a book he had precut to fit the slot, then put nail clippers and a tooth brush in the door's lower track to prevent guards from opening the door.

He tied Geoghan's hands behind his back with a T-shirt, then used stretched-out socks, a pillow case and one of Geoghan's shoes to strangle him, Conte said. Druce did not use a razor he had with him, but may have intended to castrate the former priest, Conte said.

Once he was alerted to the attack by an inmate, the guard on duty tried to get inside, but found the door was jammed. He called for help. By the time a nurse arrived to treat Geoghan, seven or eight minutes had passed, Conte said.

Geoghan, 68, was taken to Leominster Hospital, where he was pronounced dead. An autopsy Monday showed that Geoghan died from strangulation and blunt chest trauma. He also had broken ribs and a punctured lung, Conte said.

Conte has said Druce will be charged with murder once a grand jury is convened in September.

Druce, 37, a reputed member of the neo-Nazi group Aryan Nation, was convicted in the June 1988 murder of George Rollo, 51, a gay bus driver who had picked Druce up hitchhiking. Druce, who then went by his birth name, Darrin E. Smiledge, attacked Rollo, stuffed him in the trunk of Rollo's car, drove him to a wooded area and strangled him, according to court documents.

Geoghan allegedly molested nearly 150 boys over three decades and became a symbol of the clergy sex abuse scandal that shook the foundations of the Roman Catholic church. He was serving a nine- to 10-year sentence for assault and battery on a 10-year-old boy.

Druce ``has a long-standing phobia, it appears, toward homosexuals of any kind,'' Conte said. ``He looked upon Father Geoghan as a prize. No question he had been planning it for well over a month.''

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#58 Rhea

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 10:13 AM

kimmer, on Aug 23 2003, 04:10 PM, said:

TrancesHuggyPillow, on Aug 23 2003, 03:43 PM, said:

Molesters are kept seperate from the rest of the population for their own protection.  But as a rule, I'm afraid child molesters have a bad time in prison.
Child molestors* are not normally housed with the general popultion. Obviously this man was for some reason. Inmates do have their own code of conduct. In a bizarre way, justice has been served with this.


kimmer

*Inmates see a difference between "child" molestors and molestors/rapists. It's too bizarre to explain - just trust me that they do. :barf:
What Kimmer said. I've always found it fascinating that murderers, for instance, consider themselves socially superior to child molesters.  Then again, NOBODY can stand a child molester - it's a betrayal of the worst sort, perpetrated on those too young to either understand and defend themselves.

As an interesting side note, the guy who killed him was in prison for murdering a man who allegedly propositioned him. Not homophobic, much?  :eek:

Edited by Rhea, 26 August 2003 - 11:46 AM.

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