33 replies to this topic

[QueenTiye]

With the introduction of the Google +1 button, I wondered if our site automatically updated to include it, but it has not.  SO, I'm asking.  Not only am I asking, but I'm also asking that members use the social networking buttons, especially the +1s if Orpheus decides to deploy it, since it will elevate Ex Isle's reach - the +1 button especially helping Ex Isle elevate in search rankings.

Here's a (rather ad-intensive) article about the +1 button: http://www.webpronew...utton-3-2011-06

And the webmaster FAQs: http://www.google.co...?answer=1140194

QT

Edited by QueenTiye, 10 August 2011 - 01:06 PM.

[Orpheus]

I think this is a good time to revisit social networking functions in general.

IPB recently released v3.2.0, but I haven't tested it yet. I've been waiting for at least the first bugfix update (which I now see came out last night, so I'll probably install it on the v3 Test Board this weekend). It may add more Social Networking options, and we can add more via the skins regardless. Some of my thoughts on the Current State of Affairs:

1) we've disliked the option of logging in via Facebook (etc.), but we might consider a test of allowing people to post via their validated Facebook (etc.) identities with some restrictions. For example:
a) They would be in a different member group (say: "Cruise Ship visitor: SS Facebook")
b) We may require them to use they validated name, not a display name
c) they couldn't vote, send PMs/emails (too much spam potential), etc. -- just read/post
d) if we see too much spam, we may moderate that group (posts not "public" until approved)
e) Maybe remove the password requirement for Spoiler Clubhouse for social visitors (but not Guests) That way EIers are still spoiler-protected when they aren't logged in, but interested visitors can see that content, which they might otherwise overlook, not knowing our rules.
Suggestions are welcome, of course.

2) We do have a number of link-sharing options at the bottom of the default skins. We should probably move them to near the top of each page, enhance them, and check all active skins

[icons for link-sharing on Twitter, Facebook, Google Buzz, De.Licio.us, Reddit, StumbleUpon, email, etc.]

3) I still don't like "login via Facebook" for registered members and will seek to block that because I think it is a privacy concern. However, it seems that most people neither know nor care (or they'd use a suitable general security plug-in or program). Does it makes sense to block it *completely* on EI, if most EIers are leaving themselves completely exposed on every OTHER site that uses a Facebook/etc. widget? (webmasters may not know/care about the risk)

4) I do agree that we need to keep up with the times, make ourselves more welcoming to drive-bys who may ultimately join, and get the word out using our individual social networks

[QueenTiye]

Have you heard of Disqus? It had the same idea as OpenId but seems to be more accepted/successful. I don't much like Disqus, but I use it om a couple of sites.

http://www.thetechla...isqus-comments/

What I'm not clear on is if it can be incorporated with a message board (I've only used it on blog sites).  

QT

[Orpheus]

I use Disqus for blog comments on some sites. I hadn't even considered it for a BBS.

[RommieSG]

Don't like +1, but I think options to 'Like' or 'Tweet' certain topics would be interesting.

[QueenTiye]

Orpheus, on 10 August 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:

1) we've disliked the option of logging in via Facebook (etc.), but we might consider a test of allowing people to post via their validated Facebook (etc.) identities with some restrictions. For example:
a) They would be in a different member group (say: "Cruise Ship visitor: SS Facebook")
b) We may require them to use they validated name, not a display name
c) they couldn't vote, send PMs/emails (too much spam potential), etc. -- just read/post
d) if we see too much spam, we may moderate that group (posts not "public" until approved)
e) Maybe remove the password requirement for Spoiler Clubhouse for social visitors (but not Guests) That way EIers are still spoiler-protected when they aren't logged in, but interested visitors can see that content, which they might otherwise overlook, not knowing our rules.
Suggestions are welcome, of course.

Agreed with much of that.  Except that I am increasingly resistant to Facebook as a platform.  Twitter is probably what I would prefer, especially since we can use screen names for Twitter.  A potential glitch with allowing folks to post in this manner is that we may find ourselves posting under multiple identities - something Ex Isle has actively discouraged in the past.  But with restrictions on voting and use of the private messaging system, it doesn't have to be a huge problem.  I don't much want to get into moderating posts for approval though. And disagreed with removing password protection for Spoiler Clubhouse.  Is there some technical reason you suggest it?

Quote

2) We do have a number of link-sharing options at the bottom of the default skins. We should probably move them to near the top of each page, enhance them, and check all active skins
a1.jpg
[icons for link-sharing on Twitter, Facebook, Google Buzz, De.Licio.us, Reddit, StumbleUpon, email, etc.]

Absolutely.  

Quote

3) I still don't like "login via Facebook" for registered members and will seek to block that because I think it is a privacy concern. However, it seems that most people neither know nor care (or they'd use a suitable general security plug-in or program). Does it makes sense to block it *completely* on EI, if most EIers are leaving themselves completely exposed on every OTHER site that uses a Facebook/etc. widget? (webmasters may not know/care about the risk)

As mentioned above - logging in via Facebook (or Twitter, or whatever) means you're logged in with THAT identity, instead of your Ex Isle identity. I'm not clear that there's a way to have our existing Ex Isle accounts added to a Facebook or other network identity. Since I'm QueenTiye on Twitter as well as Ex Isle, I wouldn't mind logging in using Twitter.  But I am almost certain my post count would show up as 1 for @QueenTiye...

What I would PREFER, rather than logging in, is having the option to simultaneously post. I.e., if I post a new thread, I would like to broadcast it via twitter, or have the option to update my FB status with my new post - automatically. I'd like it to be an option that every Ex Isler could have, and I would certainly use it.

Quote

4) I do agree that we need to keep up with the times, make ourselves more welcoming to drive-bys who may ultimately join, and get the word out using our individual social networks

The primary reason I am advocating +1 is because Google is saying it will impact search results.  If we can integrate that, and develop a habit of using it - I think we can drive more traffic to Ex Isle.  ESPECIALLY some of our more informative threads (i.e., Consumer Tech, EtU, Tinker & All Things Nifty).  

Orpheus, on 10 August 2011 - 02:39 PM, said:

I use Disqus for blog comments on some sites. I hadn't even considered it for a BBS.

It occurs to me only because of your interest in other login mechanisms.  I don't much like Disqus, because it isn't as robust or flexible as I think it should be (i.e., it aggregates content based on if I logged in via twitter, Disqus or something else, but it doesn't consolidate my counts, and it isn't easy to see if someone replied).

Editing to add - we discussed a while back having a levels system like we used to have at SSBBS, but pertaining to lots of different genre shows.  It might be fun to have staff come up with a list, have the membership tweak/approve it, and then apply it with automatic updates to Twitter every time someone who has automatic posting levels up!

QT

Edited by QueenTiye, 10 August 2011 - 03:17 PM.

[QueenTiye]

RommieSG, on 10 August 2011 - 03:00 PM, said:

Don't like +1, but I think options to 'Like' or 'Tweet' certain topics would be interesting.

Why?

And, we already have Twitter share options (not "Like" though, and maybe we should).

QT

[enTranced]

I don't think I would want to sign in under my Facebook account.

I do like the idea of "liking" or "Recommending" something on ExIsle though.

enTranced

[JadziaDax]

I don't want anything that might link my online identity to my real identity.

Also, I hate those +1 buttons. I've accidentally clicked on them so many times I want to get a browser extension that disables it completely.

Edited by JadziaDax, 10 August 2011 - 06:12 PM.

[QueenTiye]

Really! And I, otoh, almost always forget to click them!

But I am sure we can create a way to make these buttons not accidental clicks. Ideally we give members more choice not less.

QT

[Orpheus]

QueenTiye, on 10 August 2011 - 03:14 PM, said:

A potential glitch with allowing folks to post in this manner is that we may find ourselves posting under multiple identities - something Ex Isle has actively discouraged in the past.  But with restrictions on voting and use of the private messaging system, it doesn't have to be a huge problem.  I don't much want to get into moderating posts for approval though.

On many sites, you can register by using your Facebook (etc.) account. I wouldn't consider this an option here at all, but hey, some sites let Guests post. Whatever works for them.

I do think that we cost ourselves some participation by not allowing drive-by readers to join a conversation (and become engaged) too many people won't bother to return if there is *any* delay, including delays on their own end (not everyone is online every day, or surfs the we every day, or even checks each of their emails every day -- much less their spam folders)

I have done this several times: registered at a site that either manually validates or sends out emails once a day, forgotten all about it; stumbled across the site months/weeks later and tried/failed to [unintentionally] re-register. Finally, I search my spamfolder for the site name, and complete the registration (which sometimes expires, leaving me stuck)

I have a system for sites where I have serious expectation of being a regular participant (though "regular" for me means bursts of activity separated by weeks/months), but usually I just want to try them out or respond on something specific

You raise a good issue about people unwittingly using their "other" identities to post. I'll consider ways to avoid this. I'll have "login to your Ex Isle account" on the window that offers them to post via TwitterID, FB ID, whatever) and I am strongly inclined to limit the number of posts an outside account can make -- 5 seems about right. After that, they'd prompted to register before they can post further, and I think they'd be inclined to.

Quote

And disagreed with removing password protection for Spoiler Clubhouse.  Is there some technical reason you suggest it?

Unless they use the password, Spoiler Clubhouse posts won't show up in searches, including "Active Posts" and "Last 24 Hours". Not all *established members* notice the password on the index page, so I don't feel a visitor can be expected to know they'd need to.

If general spoilerphobia were as rampant as it was many years ago, I'd be more protective, but policies vary greatly between sites, and I thing the forum title (Spoiler Clubhouse) is warning enough. EI members (and Guests, who may be unlogged-in Members) wouldn't be affected -- only people who log in via an outside identity (which EIers shouldn't do anyway)

Quote

As mentioned above - logging in via Facebook (or Twitter, or whatever) means you're logged in with THAT identity, instead of your Ex Isle identity. I'm not clear that there's a way to have our existing Ex Isle accounts added to a Facebook or other network identity. Since I'm QueenTiye on Twitter as well as Ex Isle, I wouldn't mind logging in using Twitter.  But I am almost certain my post count would show up as 1 for @QueenTiye...

I wish that were true for all social sites (or even the end of the matter)

E.g. when you use ANY Facebook widget like "Like", the script (which is on their server, outside of our control) does a lot of things behind the scene that result in your EI identity being revealed to FB. They may even bounce a query through one of their affiliates [whose privacy policy you may never know] allowing *them* to associate your identity, too. It's all done it the speed of packets, but Facebook's transparent excuse is that the *other* exchange is between the other site and you--though I'm not sure that even Zuckerberg knows all the partner exchanges. Whether he micromanages on that level or not, I'm sure that, like me, he uses security software to block such transactions automatically)

When I last logged into Facebook on a pristine computer/IP/Identity (it was an "organization" identity for a group), it takes a LONG time to complete, and the volume of cross-site traffic was remarkable. Most people aren't set up to monitor the packets going in/out of their computer, and would never know (much less consent as FB claims the user is doing)

Basically, if you have an Fb acct, you've already consented, and they WON'T erase all the data they've already gathered or cross-correlated about you. Even if you delete your FB account, the data collection will snowball over time by other means. That was always the plan.

Quote

What I would PREFER, rather than logging in, is having the option to simultaneously post. I.e., if I post a new thread, I would like to broadcast it via twitter, or have the option to update my FB status with my new post - automatically. I'd like it to be an option that every Ex Isler could have, and I would certainly use it.

I think we can do that.

At the very least we should be able to put it as an option in the V3.2 post page.

Quote

Editing to add - we discussed a while back having a levels system like we used to have at SSBBS, but pertaining to lots of different genre shows.  It might be fun to have staff come up with a list, have the membership tweak/approve it, and then apply it with automatic updates to Twitter every time someone who has automatic posting levels up! :)

Yeah, I've long thought that we aren't having as much fun with the rank/post level features as our technical capabilities permit, but with the number of shows going on/off the air, I couldn't think of anything really worthwhile to do. I should probably look int that again.

[offworlder]

well for this community I can agree,
but it's with some major scrunching down of some rage emotions,
what??
If I may make an on topic aside I'll tell:

I rage, I mean Rage, now that I see all these media and corp pushes in all this social media, these Facebook buttons
and Twitter buttons, like me, luv me follow me, button , add my button , push or press my button, RISE UP MY
Social Visibility OH LORD GOD YE WE Beseech!

Have you seen the new pda phones, that have this actual plastic button now, it GLOWES every time you get or are
on something that is sharable, it's a freakin frackin Facebook glowing button so you can do the almighty
Fad Fave Social thing now, 'share it on Facebook' (really so you can enhance the Facebook visibility and gain
that corp another Billion!) I get so mad

So now have you seen TV stations, and as the program is just ending they dim and small down the picture leaving huge
graphics on the screen,
'Like US on Facebook' and 'Tweet us on Twitter' and all that crapola!
oh good grief

Have you seen the newspaper stories on how Business Marketing Consultancies paid millions by these corps are now
on this big kick to earn their cash and reputations telling each and every corp or ORG on the planet,
YOU Must enhance your Social Media visibility, or social interaction, for the face of your company, for the
Image, like advertising - Do not be LEFT OUT, like this fear tactic

Social, Tweet, Face .. and those two corps of those sites rake in the buckolas mucho!

Wweewwoopphh
OK... I feel better now
Jus Hadda get that off my chest

I get so mad, so rage , on that stuff, it permiates

and now Google
crimony

[QueenTiye]

offworlder, on 13 August 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

well for this community I can agree,
...
Wweewwoopphh
OK... I feel better now
Jus Hadda get that off my chest

I get so mad, so rage , on that stuff, it permiates

and now Google
crimony

LOL!  

Well, I don't begrudge them their billions for making things useful that I like to use... I don't like facebook because it seems so intrusive, and so cavalier with my stuff.  That's why I'm excited that Google is getting in the game - I really want to see a real challenge to FB, and I want to see some of the challenge hinge on our right to privacy.  I don't know if Google will come through on this front or not, but I sure hope so.

QT

[M.E.]

I'm not trying to be funny when I say this...

I'm scared.  I don't even own a cell phone.  All I have is this pick-a-part 1991 Asus computer tower, with windows xp and a big bulky 17 inch, monitor.

Then there's my sound system - $10 headphones from, Wal Mart.  

I have no idea how to tweet someone or follow anyone on twitter,  I have joined FB, but haven't been back since.  I get this email once in a while that says, "Michael people are waiting to talk with you."  I wouldn't even know how to get back to my FB page.  If that's what it's called.

Do I have to get a bunch of new stuff to keep up?  

Is there some kind of tutorial for all these things?  

What the heck is a +1 button?

Betcha I'm not the only Ex Isler with these question.  

Please don't leave me behind.

[M.E.]

P.S.  I forgot to mention that I have only been using the internet for, well, it will be 2 years come this September.

[Orpheus]

I share your concerns about the invasiveness of social media. For example: if *any* of your friends, relatives, co-workers, business associates, or that guy who bought your sofa on Craigslist last year presses the "convenient" Upload Contacts buttons on many apps, devices or services, they may be giving Facebook (etc.) YOUR name, address, phone number, email, employer, etc., all linked together. Anything else that can later be linked to any of those (rightly or wrongly) will forever be linked to you in shadowy databases you'll never even know about.

What protection do you have? None. You're not a party to the transaction. Privacy doesn't apply.

However, as you might imagine, the cat's out of the bag on that one, whatever choice Ex Isle makes. I'll do what I can to limit their access to your info, but we're not the real risk. Ex Isle doesn't know that much about you to begin with, and doesn't want to. We care about what you have to say -- that part of your head/heart you choose to willingly share, not your wallet.

[RobL]

I hate facebook, for both professional and personal reasons. If we end up making this place more facebook accessable, you are probably going to end up loosing some members, myself included.

[Vapor Trails]

RobL, on 15 August 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:

I hate facebook, for both professional and personal reasons. If we end up making this place more facebook accessable, you are probably going to end up loosing some members, myself included.

I agree with RobL. I closed my FB account-I discussed that on the Beach.

Edited to add: Here is the thread where I discuss it.

Edited by Vapor Trails, 15 August 2011 - 06:22 PM.

[cl05]

Orpheus, on 15 August 2011 - 10:09 AM, said:

I share your concerns about the invasiveness of social media. For example: if *any* of your friends, relatives, co-workers, business associates, or that guy who bought your sofa on Craigslist last year presses the "convenient" Upload Contacts buttons on many apps, devices or services, they may be giving Facebook (etc.) YOUR name, address, phone number, email, employer, etc., all linked together. Anything else that can later be linked to any of those (rightly or wrongly) will forever be linked to you in shadowy databases you'll never even know about.

What protection do you have? None. You're not a party to the transaction. Privacy doesn't apply.

However, as you might imagine, the cat's out of the bag on that one, whatever choice Ex Isle makes. I'll do what I can to limit their access to your info, but we're not the real risk. Ex Isle doesn't know that much about you to begin with, and doesn't want to. We care about what you have to say -- that part of your head/heart you choose to willingly share, not your wallet.

That's exactly why I have never or will never have a facebook account.

I'm glad to read the last sentence. Makes this board a nice place to post.

[Vapor Trails]

JadziaDax, on 10 August 2011 - 06:10 PM, said:

I don't want anything that might link my online identity to my real identity.

That's one of the things I didn't like about Facebook-I don't like one group of people I know to know about *another* group of people I know-I have privacy issues. There was TOO much cross-over there.