43 replies to this topic

[Anna]

From the "Wait a minute" thread:

Bad Wolf, on 02 December 2011 - 12:29 PM, said:

You know, I think the cool-it sign should be red, in the shape of a stop sign and say COOL IT in big black letters.

Tricia, on 02 December 2011 - 12:34 PM, said:

^^I'd vote to make it a flashing one too just to make sure it got their attention.

EChatty, on 02 December 2011 - 12:47 PM, said:

I would agree with flashing, people don't seem to see them when they're issued.

These are a few of the comments in the thread that I think ought to be considered. Is it possible to have some sort of graphical depiction on each page of a thread, too? On multipage threads, it is easy to forget that there was a Cool It issued four pages back.

In addition, I'd like to see something similar done (flashing) with the Cool It icon on the particular forum's topic page. Or maybe turn the topic title to a different color when there's a Cool It issued. I don't think the snowflake icon always gets the attention it needs (it's too "pleasant"   ). I'm sure it's not intuitive to a newcomer, especially since I don't think we have a "legend" anywhere on the site to explain.

Just some thoughts before the ideas get lost in the thread. I don't program or know how the IPB software works, so I don't know if it's possible. However, if we don't ask, then we definitely won't get it!

[Tricia]

I have seen several occasions where the second line of the thread title...not sure what else to call it...was edited to read something like "Cool-it in this thread"  I think...without checking...that second smaller part of a title shows up on every page but one still would have to look at it and read.

Not sure how practical or easy a flashing alert of a Cool-it would be to make (wouldn't it be nice though?)  Different color might be an idea though.


edited to add---the smaller title does show up on every page.  I'll use Scott's thread "Klingon or Khan" here as an example --

http://www.exisle.ne...lingon-or-khan/

the subtitle is "Del toro offered villain in Trek sequel" It shows up on every page.  But do people read that title once they have arrived at the page or go straight to the posts?     It does also show up on the forum index page also. Maybe a different color is needed to draw attention?

Edited by Tricia, 02 December 2011 - 02:31 PM.

[Bad Wolf]

Forget the flash.

Just make it a big red stop sign using the exact same lettering as is on the current cool it sign.

Maybe even add the words "or else" although one would THINK that the adults on this forum would not need that kind of hand holding/coddling/persuading.  

[Anna]

Tricia, on 02 December 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

But do people read that title once they have arrived at the page or go straight to the posts?  

No. I had to look a couple of times before I saw what you were talking about. Or maybe that's just me.

Quote

  It does also show up on the forum index page also. Maybe a different color is needed to draw attention?

I think that might be the easiest thing to achieve. Although, I have NO idea what it would take. But I think we need some constant reminder.

[Anna]

Bad Wolf, on 02 December 2011 - 03:29 PM, said:

Maybe even add the words "or else" although one would THINK that the adults on this forum would not need that kind of hand holding/coddling/persuading.  

Oh, Lil, you idealistic dreamer!

[EChatty]

One would think.

It feels like they're desensitized to what a cool-it stands for and simply ignore it when it's put up because they just 'have' to get the last jab in.

[Bad Wolf]

EChatty, on 02 December 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:

One would think.

It feels like they're desensitized to what a cool-it stands for and simply ignore it when it's put up because they just 'have' to get the last jab in.

I call it "Last-word-itis"  I suffer from it too so I know what I'm talkin' about.

[Nittany Lioness]

So since I explicitly explained that it wasn't that I missed the Cool It, but am questioning what it was in my words, y'all get to never-the-less run with this as if that's what happened and therefore it's a *wink* *eyeroll* problem.  And fabricate another thread to poke.  Nice.

[Bad Wolf]

I'm not winking or poking.  I seriously believe that people (not just you nittany) are not following cool its and I truly believe that this means a different graphic is needed.  

I think this has been repeatedly answered:  in a vacuum, your post was not warnable. However, in the context of the fact that a cool it was in effect and there were two additional reminders to abide by it, both (yes BOTH) yours and Cheile's post, each of which simply continued the unpleasantries, garnered you warnings.  

It's never been a mystery that disregarding a cool it by CONTINUING to be unpleasant will get you warned.  The other person involved in the conversation ALSO got warned. And BOTH were for violating the cool it, which you claim to understand.  So if that's true then why you're still complaining is beyond me.

[Orpheus]

Your point on increasing the threadwide visibility of coolit status is very well taken. I've had some ideas, but the v2.x->v3.0->3.1->3.2 transitions (all major changes) thwarted me. As I have said, I expect the code base to stabilize a lot after v3.2 and this is definitely an area where we could make a major improvement.

You ideas are most welcome. I have already, at various times, tried test implementations of some of them.

[Anna]

Orpheus, on 02 December 2011 - 06:39 PM, said:

Your point on increasing the threadwide visibility of coolit status is very well taken. I've had some ideas, but the v2.x->v3.0->3.1->3.2 transitions (all major changes) thwarted me. As I have said, I expect the code base to stabilize a lot after v3.2 and this is definitely an area where we could make a major improvement.

You ideas are most welcome. I have already, at various times, tried test implementations of some of them.

Thanks, Orph! What can we do to help?

This has been an ongoing problem, so we probably need to do something sooner or later.

[RobL]

This thread just goes to show my opinon on why the "cool it" is a stupid idea to begin with. It isn't that people aren't seeing the damn icon, its that they either don't care, or don't think that it applies to them. Or it pisses them off even more because they feel like they are being singled out, and now they can't respond to that last attack before the cool it was issued. And then after they are issued,  posts that would be perfectly acceptable get warned because they violate the "cool it" (I've been caught up in that little hook myself)

Either a post is warnable per policy, or it isn't. If its warnable, then the mod of the form has to step up to the plate and deal with it. If it isn't, then they should just stand by until a rule is broken.

[Balderdash]

RobL, on 03 December 2011 - 05:34 AM, said:

This thread just goes to show my opinon on why the "cool it" is a stupid idea to begin with. It isn't that people aren't seeing the damn icon, its that they either don't care, or don't think that it applies to them. Or it pisses them off even more because they feel like they are being singled out, and now they can't respond to that last attack before the cool it was issued. And then after they are issued,  posts that would be perfectly acceptable get warned because they violate the "cool it" (I've been caught up in that little hook myself)

Either a post is warnable per policy, or it isn't. If its warnable, then the mod of the form has to step up to the plate and deal with it. If it isn't, then they should just stand by until a rule is broken.

I don't agree and I've been caught up in it a time or two myself.  We've been asked to abide by the rules here and sometimes we get caught up and are asked to stop being a jerk to each other.  If we can't find a way to continue the "conversation" without the rancor than we get warned as we should.  We are for the most part grownups here and should be able to manage to speak to each other respectfully and if we can't, timeout.  I have to work on it constantly and I've acquired a guardian angle or two who pm me when I'm starting to get close to the line.  I appreciate that btw.  

[Vapor Trails]

RobL, on 03 December 2011 - 05:34 AM, said:

This thread just goes to show my opinon on why the "cool it" is a stupid idea to begin with. It isn't that people aren't seeing the damn icon, its that they either don't care, or don't think that it applies to them. Or it pisses them off even more because they feel like they are being singled out, and now they can't respond to that last attack before the cool it was issued. And then after they are issued,  posts that would be perfectly acceptable get warned because they violate the "cool it" (I've been caught up in that little hook myself)

Either a post is warnable per policy, or it isn't. If its warnable, then the mod of the form has to step up to the plate and deal with it. If it isn't, then they should just stand by until a rule is broken.

What RobL said. This whole idea of redesigning a "Cool It" icon is INCREDIBLY silly to me. If people don't give a crap, what good is an icon? More wasting time over something that isn't going to alter people's behavior. Warn them or not and be done with it.

Edited by Vapor Trails, 03 December 2011 - 10:51 AM.

[Orpheus]

Anna, on 02 December 2011 - 07:30 PM, said:

Thanks, Orph! What can we do to help?

This has been an ongoing problem, so we probably need to do something sooner or later.

I just need ideas. Right now I'm leaning toward some sort of skin marking that will occur on every page of the topic. Changing the background color might be easiest, but since our various skins range from near-white to near-black to patterned backgrounds, I'm not sure I can do that in a way that is highly visible but preserves their looks.

I think that's only fair to the members. It'd be nice if everyone read every post, but that's clearly an impractical expectation. Further, I know that I often start with the latest posts in a long thread and page backwards. I'd be very likely to post before reaching the cool-it, and you'd quickly have to suspend (and hence fire) me.

[Anna]

Vapor Trails, on 03 December 2011 - 10:50 AM, said:

RobL, on 03 December 2011 - 05:34 AM, said:

This thread just goes to show my opinon on why the "cool it" is a stupid idea to begin with. It isn't that people aren't seeing the damn icon, its that they either don't care, or don't think that it applies to them. Or it pisses them off even more because they feel like they are being singled out, and now they can't respond to that last attack before the cool it was issued. And then after they are issued,  posts that would be perfectly acceptable get warned because they violate the "cool it" (I've been caught up in that little hook myself)

Either a post is warnable per policy, or it isn't. If its warnable, then the mod of the form has to step up to the plate and deal with it. If it isn't, then they should just stand by until a rule is broken.

What RobL said. This whole idea of redesigning a "Cool It" icon is INCREDIBLY silly to me. If people don't give a crap, what good is an icon? More wasting time over something that isn't going to alter people's behavior. Warn them or not and be done with it.

I understand what both of you are saying, but that's a different discussion. Cool Its are part of the guidelines, so I'm just trying to help those who will benefit from an in-your-face reminder to, well, cool it. There are those people for whom no amount of reminders will change their posting style, and will likely end up with warnings. You're right, this idea will NOT help those people.

You want a guideline change and there are ways to change them. Start a discussion thread if you're both serious!

[Anna]

Orpheus, on 03 December 2011 - 02:23 PM, said:

I just need ideas. Right now I'm leaning toward some sort of skin marking that will occur on every page of the topic. Changing the background color might be easiest, but since our various skins range from near-white to near-black to patterned backgrounds, I'm not sure I can do that in a way that is highly visible but preserves their looks.

I think that's only fair to the members. It'd be nice if everyone read every post, but that's clearly an impractical expectation. Further, I know that I often start with the latest posts in a long thread and page backwards. I'd be very likely to post before reaching the cool-it, and you'd quickly have to suspend (and hence fire) me.

And I use the "jump to new post" icon thingy when I've been following a thread. So, if a Cool It was issued several pages ago, I won't see it in the current page. I know we have the snowflake on the Topic Index page, but honestly, I don't see it if, again, I've been following the thread. (Familiarity breeds contempt? )

So, another idea I had is the post icons. Can you force the new graphic on each post once a Cool It has been issued? (I think I like Lil's stop sign idea best.) That might be a fairly good reminder...

[Bad Wolf]

RobL, on 03 December 2011 - 05:34 AM, said:

its that they either don't care, or don't think that it applies to them.

I won't disagree with this.  But hey, redesigning it won't hurt.

[DWF]

I have to agree with RobL, some people are just going to continue going down the road and get a warning no matter what.

[Tricia]

^^^Of course, they are.  

But for those who have said in the past that they had no idea that a Cool-it was even in effect in a thread, that there was no sign...why not?  

This is more for those people who would pause and take a step back, take that extra moment.


Those who would charge ahead and do what they want, dance in warning territory on purpose...well, there's no helping that regardless of however many flashing neon signs you give'em.


And Orph...thank you.