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Under-covered Bustamente Story...

California Cruz Bustamente 2003

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#1 Rov Judicata

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 01:14 PM

http://washingtontim...12110-8785r.htm


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Mr. Bustamante, meanwhile, defended his membership in the radical group the Chicano Student Movement of Aztlan (MECHA, from the Spanish acronym) while he was a student at California State University at Fresno in the 1970s, and said he still supports the group.
MECHA calls California and the rest of the American Southwest "Aztlan" and says it needs to be "liberated" and revert to Mexico. The group's motto is "For the race, everything; for those outside the race, nothing."
"The students who are MECHA today are just like the students when I was there," Mr. Bustamante said yesterday. "Pretty much, they are trying to get an education. Most of the friends I went to school with are now either graduates from college or raising families."
At a July 4 celebration in 1996, members of the group, who call themselves Mechistas, attacked black and white Americans protesting illegal immigration. In 1993, Mechista protesters caused $500,000 worth of damage at UCLA to demand a Chicano studies department. MECHA has also been associated with anti-Semitic groups, such as the Nation of Aztlan.

Setting aside the scariness of having a California governor who thinks the state needs to be returned to Mexico, this is deeply troubling.

"For the race, everything; for those outside the race, nothing"?

Remember the firestorm when Lott gave the thumbs-up to Thurmond who endorsed segregation decades ago? The media raked him over the coals. Here, Bustamenta is endorsing a group that has an openly racist motto, and has an open agenda of compromising US territory.Why the virtual silence on this issue?

Many of the sources that *are* covering the story have completely whitewashed the issue:

Quote

Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante, a Democrat, shrugged off the criticism of his affiliation in the 1970s with Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan, or MeCHA, a Chicano student activist group.

^ Off the AP wire, and is often the only coverage of this issue from an entire newssource.

And here's an editorial about the media coverage:

http://www.townhall....m20030820.shtml

I tried to find some left-wing sources on the issue for balance, but aside from the phrase from the AP wire above, I can't find any.

I'm not sure if this is a legitimate story that's being buried, or if it's just right-wing whining. I'd really like some other viewpoints on this... :cool:

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 29 August 2003 - 01:18 PM.

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#2 Kimmer

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 01:28 PM

Just my typical conservative opinion here ... :D

Javert Rovinski, on Aug 29 2003, 11:14 AM, said:

Why the virtual silence on this issue?
Virtual silence because he's a liberal democrat and the media by and large leans that direction. They seldom report or stir up dirty, nasty stuff on one of their own.

Quote

I'm not sure if this is a legitimate story that's being buried, or if it's just right-wing whining. I'd really like some other viewpoints on this... :cool:
In some respects, it doesn't matter. They dig up old dirt on the conservatives and others and *make* it a legit story. Why not do the same here? Oh yeah, they wouldn't want anyone to know that Busty baby had some dirt on him.

Gads - I honestly am reaching the point where I HATE the media (liberal and the few conservatives that are out there) as much as I HATE politicians.
:angry:


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#3 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 01:45 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Aug 29 2003, 06:14 PM, said:

I'm not sure if this is a legitimate story that's being buried, or if it's just right-wing whining. I'd really like some other viewpoints on this... :cool:
I think the biased nature of the liberal press shows clearly through on this one.  They are attempting to roast Arhnuld for ties that his father had the to the Nazi party.  I have lost track of how many liberal commentators have attempted to bring that up.  Now they go after him for the sins of his father and ignored Bustamante's group.

A little more on the topic.
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Rov: Setting aside the scariness of having a California governor who thinks the state needs to be returned to Mexico, this is deeply troubling.

Someone should remind him that secession as a credible idea was shot to pieces during the Civil War.

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 29 August 2003 - 01:48 PM.

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#4 QueenTiye

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 01:47 PM

The problem is not liberal media, but a general fear of going against a protected minority in public because of the general outcry that will undoubtably be made, of racism, coupled with a more alarming tendency to underreport anything that can't be reduced to soundbites.

What I find disturbing about this story is that we are not being told (from either side, apparently) what his CURRENT position is.   The statement being made "the students are just like he was, trying to get an education" is off-topic, and most likely NOT all of what he said.  It makes a difference, for instance, if he said:

"I thought like them when I was in college, because of the challenges I faced as a minority trying to get on in America.  It's unfortunate that some of them are so angry that they go beyond the bounds of law. I support their right to speak their minds, and  I can understand their anger.  I think I have a better solution than the one they propose if they would hear me. "

or if he said:

"I think they have a legitimate point.  We SHOULD be investigating the potential give back or compensation to Mexico for the theft of California.  America will be a better nation if it corrects its karmic debts of the past.  I was just like these kids when I was coming up, and their criminal acts are justified in the face of the history of America's exploitation of the Mechistas.

Right now, the story IS underreported, but I have a hunch that it is more because neither side found the nice neat soundbite they were looking for, while the Washington Times found a quote that nicely juxtaposed Schwarzenegger's alleged racism against Bustamente's alleged racism.  Neatly canned politics to steer the American mind. :glare:

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#5 GiGi

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 04:30 PM

I don't see what the big deal is.  There have been groups wanted Calif. to go back to Mexico for a very long time.  What is a student group going to do?  Mostly talk.  It does show the gap between the Latinos and others here.

The best thing to to build a bridge so that communication can flow.  Cutting these folks off and treating them like second class citizens is what is pissing them off to begin with.  I think Bustamente's strength is in his connection with the Latino community.

Yes, they sould racist, no I don't like it.  I live right up the road from the Latino community here.  If I ride my bike in that area I get harassed.  It is not fun.  But there is hatred building on both sides and ignoring it won't make it go away.  There is a lot of healing to be done.

I try to do my best to treat the Latinos here with respect and even speak a little Spanish if I can do it without embarrassing myself.  They are not used to it, it takes them by surprise and then they open up and become friendly and helpful.

This was not how I grew up though, my father hated Mexicans more than any other ethnic group.  He loathed Cesar Chavez and would rant on and on about him.

So when I moved up here from Orange County I was suspicious and very judgemental about the Latino community.  It has taken me years to overcome this prejudice because I didn't believe I was prejudiced.  I thought it was all there fault because Latinos can be very dangerous and I had good reason to fear them.

But I have changed my attitude, little by little.  I wouldn't walk alone in the heart of Salinas, but for the most part I act friendly to most Latino folks I meet.

Bottomline, someone can have been a part of an extreme group and not agree with them in the long run.  Such as Reagan with the Communist Party, or perhaps Arnold's father with the Nazi Party. (I haven't seen the details yet on that story)
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#6 QueenTiye

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 04:36 PM

GiGi, on Aug 29 2003, 05:30 PM, said:

I don't see what the big deal is.
The big deal is that the press has been having a field day with Arnold's father's nazi party membership, which has NOTHING to do with Arnold, while conversely having not much at all to say about Bustamente's PERSONAL membership in a group that can be considered racist and extremist.  In the balance - it is unfair.

I'm further stating that part of the reason this is imbalanced is that there isn't a comfortable soundbite the press can get away with saying or which can have as much immediate resonance as the Nazi issue.

What was that business again about Godwin's law? :rolleyes:

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#7 MuseZack

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 05:15 PM

I'm probably biased because as a student journalist I had run-ins with our local chapter of MECHA, which deemed the school paper as being insufficiently fawning toward them and the other ethnic student movements (Chiron will laugh her butt off at that one), and watched our Puerto Rican-American photo editor get accused of "acting white" for daring to disagree with them.  But I have no idea if MECHA was as obnoxious in the early 1970s when Bustamante was a member as it later became.

And the story has gotten plenty of play in Los Angeles, especially on the local Fox station, surprise surprise.  And aside from Bob Mulholland, nobody really considers the past of Arnold's dad to be a big issue.  

If there's any issue in the race that's gotten surprisingly little mainstream media attention, it's Arnold's own Boogie Nights-esque past as a bodybuilder, which doesn't bother me at all but would probably freak out his more conservative supporters.

See this interview, for example (be warned, though: some of the content is fairly graphic):

http://www.thesmokin...arnoldoui1.html
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#8 HubcapDave

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 05:54 PM

It actually has received some play in the San Jose Mercury News. They even mention the slogan, though they say it "can" be translated that way and they have someone later in the article saying that the slogan was never meant to be literally translated into English. From what the article says, the word raza (which translates as "race") is also a colloquialism for "the people". Don't know if I believe that.

I do think this is much more relevant than whatever Ahnuld's dad did in the Nazi party.

#9 Bad Wolf

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 06:08 PM

A little story from the anals of USF school of law.  When I was in second year I asked if I could tutor the ASP students in either Civil Procedure or Torts.  The ASP students were minorities who'd gotten in under affirmative action (no don't go there) and needed help.  Well, apparently my last name (Wolf) and white skin made me less than an ideal candidate.

So, when the Student Bar Association wanted to start providing tutoring for ALL students, I um, got hired.  Curiously, word of my Civil Procedure exploits spread and one day I gave a tutorial on the issue of "joinder" (an issue which is no longer difficult thanks to some amendments to the relavent law). The ASP students, who had heard about this tutorial blew off their own tutorial, and um......

Funnily enough, they hired me for ASP the following semester.  Even more funnily, when I was helping people in the Mission with their tax returns and it turned out that I speak better Spanish than most "la raza" members at that school suddenly they were fawning all over me and stuff.

Then I got invited to a special ASP graduation dinner.  My grandmother (who looks as Filipino as any Filipino I've met) attended as did my entire family.

We each received a gift (a neato business card holder) and were introduced name by name.  Well, despite the fact that my mother is Filipino (and a Mexican citizen) and despite the obvious ethnicity in my family, I was introduced as an "honorary" member of La Raza.

Even in being more "accepting" of me, they were still excluding me.  Still being seperatists.  Still being racist.  

These groups piss me off no end.  They say they are fighting racism when in fact they promote the very thing they claim to hate.

People claim to want equality before the law.  Good.  And I don't say that this has to be inconsistent with celebrating one's individuality or cultural differences.  But I've yet to encounter a single La Raza type group (oh the stories I could tell you from college) that doesn't carry the whole "let's celebrate our Latino background" to the point of racism, separatism, and promotion of the very thing they purport to oppose.

Sorry for the rant but this is in response to those who don't think that membership in a group like this is a big deal.  It IS a big deal.

*sigh* However, I gotta vote with my party and, while I think there are a whole lot worse republicans than Ahnold, their platform still scares the sh*t out of me, so Cruz it is.

But I'm not happy at all about this.  

Lil
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#10 HubcapDave

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 06:33 PM

^

Just curious, what does ASP stand for?

#11 Bad Wolf

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 06:43 PM

ASP=Academic Support Program
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#12 GiGi

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 07:06 PM

QueenTiye, on Aug 29 2003, 01:36 PM, said:

The big deal is that the press has been having a field day with Arnold's father's nazi party membership, which has NOTHING to do with Arnold, while conversely having not much at all to say about Bustamente's PERSONAL membership in a group that can be considered racist and extremist.  In the balance - it is unfair.
That is not what I was refering to when I said "big deal"

Yes, it is unfair.

It is.

But I have seen black groups act just as racist.  And it makes me angry too.  

But that doesn't make me think that anyone who has associated with such a group is automatically racist too.  It is important for folks who aren't extreme in their views to be part of these groups too. How else will the exclusive attitudes change?  Only from within.
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#13 GiGi

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 07:17 PM

MuseZack, on Aug 29 2003, 02:15 PM, said:

I'm probably biased because as a student journalist I had run-ins with our local chapter of MECHA, which deemed the school paper as being insufficiently fawning toward them and the other ethnic student movements (Chiron will laugh her butt off at that one), and watched our Puerto Rican-American photo editor get accused of "acting white" for daring to disagree with them.  But I have no idea if MECHA was as obnoxious in the early 1970s when Bustamante was a member as it later became.

<snip>

If there's any issue in the race that's gotten surprisingly little mainstream media attention, it's Arnold's own Boogie Nights-esque past as a bodybuilder, which doesn't bother me at all but would probably freak out his more conservative supporters.
I believe it.  

I doubt if MENCHA had the same attitudes in the 70's.  Latinos at that time where pretty much non-entities from what I could see.  What got my dad all riled up was that Cesar Chavez was daring to stand up for field workers' rights.  You know,  a roof over head (even if there are ten people under the tiny roof)  stuff like that.

Part of their extreme attitude is because they have been treated like animals in the past.

Oh and to the Arnold interview...  Well that is a pretty typical attitude for the time.  And not just for body builders. It was the time of the sexual revolution and that is just what went on. Basically it doesn't surprise me at all.  Now what his fellow Republicans will think, that is another matter.  :eek:
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#14 Bad Wolf

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 07:20 PM

I'm afraid that argument does not work for me in this instance.  He supports them.  He's not just a member who is trying to change them from within.

It won't change my vote, as I said, but it is a big deal to me.  

Lil
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#15 GiGi

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 07:31 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 29 2003, 03:08 PM, said:

Even in being more "accepting" of me, they were still excluding me.  Still being seperatists.  Still being racist. 

These groups piss me off no end.  They say they are fighting racism when in fact they promote the very thing they claim to hate.
Indeed, this is a problem with all cultural "Pride" groups.  As I said before I have seen it in all races.

It is disheartening... and stupid.

It can only be changed by having conversations and by trying to bridge the gaps.

Here is another interesting thing I have run into.  The Mexican people here have no interest in Flamenco.  Even though it is Spanish. And it is for that very reason... It is Spanish.  They don't relate to it. Period. (Spanish were the conquerors)

But I had a long conversation about it with a Chicana.  I explained to her about the gypsy culture it comes from.  Those who are looked down upon in Spain because their skin is darker.  All of a sudden she understood and was interested.

We had a great conversation.  But it took a while to connect.
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#16 Uncle Sid

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 07:34 PM

I'm well aware that people can change and all of that, and sometimes the stated aims of an organization can differ from reality, but why in heaven's name would even Latinos want to restore California to Mexico?  Didn't they leave Mexico (or other parts of Latin America) in the first place?  And for very good reasons too?  Here, of course, I'm assuming that most of your college students aren't illegal aliens, but even then, the illegal aliens are here for a reason too.  I don't know where the people like this get their drugs, but I'd sure like to get my hands on some of what they're smoking.  

:wacko:

I don't think Bustamente's involvement with this group is really going to be a factor, for whatever reason, but I will say that it's a significantly more valid objection than bashing Arnold for what his father may or may not have done.  

I personally remember in my college days at Cornell the local Latina sorority group putting their pledge group or whatever they called it into bright red uniforms and having them literally march across campus to do anything as if they were parading for Che Gueverra himself.  It was particularly poignant since, as a member of the College Republicans, we were supposed to be the fascists on campus.  

:rolleyes:

Edited by Uncle Sid, 29 August 2003 - 07:36 PM.

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#17 HubcapDave

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 07:36 PM

^^^

Lil is right. He's not trying to denounce the group, what he's trying to say is that they really aren't radical or racially prejudiced, even though the evidence indicates otherwise.

#18 GiGi

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 07:47 PM

Uncle Sid, on Aug 29 2003, 04:34 PM, said:

I'm well aware that people can change and all of that, and sometimes the stated aims of an organization can differ from reality, but why in heaven's name would even Latinos want to restore California to Mexico?  Didn't they leave Mexico (or other parts of Latin America) in the first place?  And for very good reasons too?  Here, of course, I'm assuming that most of your college students aren't illegal aliens, but even then, the illegal aliens are here for a reason too.  I don't know where the people like this get their drugs, but I'd sure like to get my hands on some of what they're smoking.
Of course, everything you said is right on.  I really don't believe anything they say will amount to anything.

I have wanted Northern California to succeed from Southern California ever since I moved up here twenty five years ago.  And for good reason!

But like that is going to happen?! Right!   :rolleyes:
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#19 Kimmer

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 08:14 PM

GiGi, on Aug 29 2003, 05:47 PM, said:

I have wanted Northern California to succeed from Southern California ever since I moved up here twenty five years ago.  And for good reason!

But like that is going to happen?! Right!   :rolleyes:
Hey, GiGi!!!! Here's something we agree on politically.  :D


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#20 GiGi

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 08:16 PM

High Five Kimmer!

:D
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