Jump to content


Female Lawmaker Touts Law to Limit Access to Viagra


  • Please log in to reply
91 replies to this topic

#61 DarthMarley

DarthMarley
  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 17 March 2012 - 03:03 PM

I can stipulate medical need for insured persons getting coverage for the pill.

But, in the absence of such a medical need besides contraception, what exactly does the insurance company think they are insuring against? It isn't illness, but mitigating a behavioral risk.

I can agree that contraception is a great thing.
In fact, all fertile women should be on the pill just in case they want to have spontaneous unprotected sex with me at some future time.
But even though it is a great thing, is it something that as a behavioral remedy (people are going to have sex, so we might as well cover it) insurance should be covering, or be forced to cover?
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#62 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 17,649 posts

Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:13 PM

In a word: yep.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#63 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,119 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:10 AM

Quote

But, in the absence of such a medical need besides contraception, what exactly does the insurance company think they are insuring against? It isn't illness, but mitigating a behavioral risk

They are insuraning against the costs of a hospital say for giving birth (and any number of serious, expensive complications to the baby or mother or both. They are also insuraning against the future costs of that potential child over it's first 18 to 26 years.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#64 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,193 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:27 AM

View PostLin731, on 18 March 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

Quote

But, in the absence of such a medical need besides contraception, what exactly does the insurance company think they are insuring against? It isn't illness, but mitigating a behavioral risk

They are insuraning against the costs of a hospital say for giving birth (and any number of serious, expensive complications to the baby or mother or both. They are also insuraning against the future costs of that potential child over it's first 18 to 26 years.


Very true.

The costs of medical care throughout the pregnancy and the birth as well as the first years of  the child's life far outweigh the cost of the birth control.

By not covering birth control, the risk increases of the insurance company having to pay out for those things.  Less profit for the insurance company and their stockholders, higher premiums overall for all customers, etc.  

I don't have any charts comparing rates for insurance with and without birth control coverage but I would think that it should be a higher cost because of the risk factor for those not providing birth control coverage.

Edited by Tricia, 18 March 2012 - 10:29 AM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#65 DarthMarley

DarthMarley
  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:51 AM

Sure, women not getting pregnant is cheaper than paying for pregnancies.
Not all policies cover pregnancies though.
Should pregnancies be an insurable risk if the insured is not trying to avoid pregnancy?
Think about how your driving record affects your auto insurance rate.

Or do you favor a case in which women can insist on both BC coverage from the insurer, and full coverage for the pregnancy and childbirth if they decide not to take them?
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#66 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,119 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 04:52 PM

Quote

Or do you favor a case in which women can insist on both BC coverage from the insurer, and full coverage for the pregnancy and childbirth if they decide not to take them?


Why apply that simply to women? Inless we're all giving birth to the baby Jesus, these children have fathers as well, shall we make a rider for that as well? Afterall they helped create the child in question and clearly they weren't using condoms (which btw are far cheaper then the pill) and also offer protection against many far more expensive medical bills like treatment for aids, infertility issues from untreated veneral diseases etc... See we can dine on this all day and still have a mouthful to chew.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#67 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 28,483 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 06:01 PM

I am laughing so hard, I wonder how I'm able to type!  

‘Lady business’ activism floods Va. Republicans’ Facebook pages

Quote

Virginia seems to have ushered in a new protest genre: the gynecological overshare.

Virginia Republicans who helped pass a law requiring women to get an ultrasound before an abortion found their political Facebook pages flooded this week with the kind of information normally reserved for the ob/gyn....
:howling:
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"One man's vulgarity is another's lyric."  Justice John Marshall Harlan, 1971

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.  

If the Dems are "job killers" then the GOP are job abortionists.  

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

Tea Party organizers may want to run away from the facts, but they're not that fast, and the American people are not that slow.  Charles M. Blow

GOP holding up health care, your money or your life.  

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

Continue to say nothing if you agree. House

If corporations are people, NBC was my first wife!  P J O'Rourke

#68 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 7,126 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:56 PM

^ thanks for that Nonny! :D
Quote from The Daily Show with Jon Stewart:

Bennett: Look, it's a debate about whether you think marriage is between a man and a women.
Stewart: I disagree, I think it's a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."

#69 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 28,483 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:02 AM

^You're welcome!  I'm still laughing.   :lol:
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"One man's vulgarity is another's lyric."  Justice John Marshall Harlan, 1971

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.  

If the Dems are "job killers" then the GOP are job abortionists.  

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

Tea Party organizers may want to run away from the facts, but they're not that fast, and the American people are not that slow.  Charles M. Blow

GOP holding up health care, your money or your life.  

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

Continue to say nothing if you agree. House

If corporations are people, NBC was my first wife!  P J O'Rourke

#70 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:14 AM

View PostDarthMarley, on 17 March 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

I can stipulate medical need for insured persons getting coverage for the pill.

But, in the absence of such a medical need besides contraception, what exactly does the insurance company think they are insuring against? It isn't illness, but mitigating a behavioral risk.

I can agree that contraception is a great thing.
In fact, all fertile women should be on the pill just in case they want to have spontaneous unprotected sex with me at some future time.
But even though it is a great thing, is it something that as a behavioral remedy (people are going to have sex, so we might as well cover it) insurance should be covering, or be forced to cover?

We cover other forms of birth control like vasectomies and tube tying. Don't you think it's a little strange we deny coverage for other forms of b.c.?

And pregnancy is NOT A DISEASE - yet it is covered. Hypocritical, much?
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#71 psycaz

psycaz
  • Islander
  • 350 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:21 PM

It is the choice of the insurance company and the company sponsoring the policy to decide what will and won't be covered. Those inclusions/exclusions determine the price of said policy.

Doesn't matter if it's McDonalds or Georgetown University.

If it ain't covered, suck it up and do what the rest of us do - pay for it if you need it. Find another way to get a better price if you can.

#72 Cheile

Cheile

    proud J/Cer ~ ten years and counting

  • Islander
  • 10,776 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:36 PM

View PostRhea, on 19 March 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

View PostDarthMarley, on 17 March 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

I can stipulate medical need for insured persons getting coverage for the pill.

But, in the absence of such a medical need besides contraception, what exactly does the insurance company think they are insuring against? It isn't illness, but mitigating a behavioral risk.

I can agree that contraception is a great thing.
In fact, all fertile women should be on the pill just in case they want to have spontaneous unprotected sex with me at some future time.
But even though it is a great thing, is it something that as a behavioral remedy (people are going to have sex, so we might as well cover it) insurance should be covering, or be forced to cover?

We cover other forms of birth control like vasectomies and tube tying. Don't you think it's a little strange we deny coverage for other forms of b.c.?

And pregnancy is NOT A DISEASE - yet it is covered. Hypocritical, much?

what Rhea said.

Posted Image


"Andromeda may be over but it's not dead. Not as long as we have fanfic writers dedicated to keeping it alive.  Whether you accept everything as canon or stop at a certain point. Whether you accept and enjoy Nu Drom or only accept Classic Drom, it will never be over.  Not as long as we have each other [and Beka], who binds us all together." ~ Mary Rose

Twitter * Facebook * ExIsle at Facebook

icon by mercscilla @ LJ

#73 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,225 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:49 PM

I've never needed it but I don't think I've ever seen an insurance policy that didn't cover childbirth, and I've always been the person at work who could explain the coverage to everyone else.  At one job I actually compared available policies for the company.
Cats will never be extinct!

#74 Cheile

Cheile

    proud J/Cer ~ ten years and counting

  • Islander
  • 10,776 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:18 PM

another thought--why shouldn't birth control (whether it's pills or getting one's self fixed) be covered?  in the long run, it's far LESS of an expense than paying for pregnancy, childbirth, and up to 22 years of whatever medical care that child needs.

and in today's overpopulated world, it'd be smarter to assist those who wish to either wait to add to the population AND the childfree who don't want to add to it at all.

but wait...that would be logical. :sarcasm:

Edited by Cheile, 19 March 2012 - 11:19 PM.

Posted Image


"Andromeda may be over but it's not dead. Not as long as we have fanfic writers dedicated to keeping it alive.  Whether you accept everything as canon or stop at a certain point. Whether you accept and enjoy Nu Drom or only accept Classic Drom, it will never be over.  Not as long as we have each other [and Beka], who binds us all together." ~ Mary Rose

Twitter * Facebook * ExIsle at Facebook

icon by mercscilla @ LJ

#75 DarthMarley

DarthMarley
  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:26 AM

Many policies may indeed generally cover childbirth, particularly family plans from stable employers.
But in the case of a young uninsured pregnant woman shopping for insurance, they are instead steered to TennCare or whatever the local Medicaid program would be called.
And part of the reason is that you can't insure against an existing condition.

And while birth control is logical (with only some demographic stability qualifiers) logical practices are not necessarily good policy, at least in terms of mandating behavior.
It might be logical to criminalize smoking, but would it go too far?
We could do the same thing regarding non-nutritious luxury foods.
It might seem to be logical to tell people how to live, and make better decisions for them, but who really wants to feel like all their decisions are made for them?

Providing people with a free good also creates problems.
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#76 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,119 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:34 PM

Quote

It is the choice of the insurance company and the company sponsoring the policy to decide what will and won't be covered. Those inclusions/exclusions determine the price of said policy.

Doesn't matter if it's McDonalds or Georgetown University.

If it ain't covered, suck it up and do what the rest of us do - pay for it if you need it. Find another way to get a better price if you can.


Because it's discrimination against women to cover a vasectomy and not the pill. Because it singles out one gender for unequal treatment. Why should my husbands vasectomy be covered but not the pill? If I am paying into my coverage every week (which most of us do when on an employers insurance plan) why should my male coworkers have coverage for vanity drugs such as Rogaine or viagra, yet something as critical as contraception for women, NOT be covered? It's sexist, IMO, plain and simple.

Quote

It might seem to be logical to tell people how to live, and make better decisions for them, but who really wants to feel like all their decisions are made for them?


Which is percisely why so many women are fed up with these attempts to legislate their wombs. I should be able to decide what is in my best interests in that regard, not some dusty old man who thinks women belong in the kitchen cooking him his dinner and cleaning his house. We would never have this conversation about men's reproductive rights would we? Men wouldn't stand for someone telling them if they could have a vasectomy or not.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#77 Cheile

Cheile

    proud J/Cer ~ ten years and counting

  • Islander
  • 10,776 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:24 PM

View PostLin731, on 21 March 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

Quote

It is the choice of the insurance company and the company sponsoring the policy to decide what will and won't be covered. Those inclusions/exclusions determine the price of said policy.

Doesn't matter if it's McDonalds or Georgetown University.

If it ain't covered, suck it up and do what the rest of us do - pay for it if you need it. Find another way to get a better price if you can.


Because it's discrimination against women to cover a vasectomy and not the pill. Because it singles out one gender for unequal treatment. Why should my husbands vasectomy be covered but not the pill? If I am paying into my coverage every week (which most of us do when on an employers insurance plan) why should my male coworkers have coverage for vanity drugs such as Rogaine or viagra, yet something as critical as contraception for women, NOT be covered? It's sexist, IMO, plain and simple.

bolding mine....nailed it in one.

Posted Image


"Andromeda may be over but it's not dead. Not as long as we have fanfic writers dedicated to keeping it alive.  Whether you accept everything as canon or stop at a certain point. Whether you accept and enjoy Nu Drom or only accept Classic Drom, it will never be over.  Not as long as we have each other [and Beka], who binds us all together." ~ Mary Rose

Twitter * Facebook * ExIsle at Facebook

icon by mercscilla @ LJ

#78 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:06 PM

Quote

Because it's discrimination against women to cover a vasectomy and not the pill. Because it singles out one gender for unequal treatment. Why should my husbands vasectomy be covered but not the pill?
:dontgetit:
Lin the female version of vasectomy is tubal ligation not the pill. Is it completely outside the realm of possibility that insurance companies DON'T value the lives of men more than women? That maybe there are other, hate-free reasons, why everything under the sun isn't covered by a particular policy? What would motivate a man...to want other MEN...to have better lives than women? So much so that they organize their businesses to deliberately make the world a terrible place to be female?
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#79 Cheile

Cheile

    proud J/Cer ~ ten years and counting

  • Islander
  • 10,776 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:44 PM

View Postscherzo, on 21 March 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

Quote

Because it's discrimination against women to cover a vasectomy and not the pill. Because it singles out one gender for unequal treatment. Why should my husbands vasectomy be covered but not the pill?
:dontgetit:
Lin the female version of vasectomy is tubal ligation not the pill. Is it completely outside the realm of possibility that insurance companies DON'T value the lives of men more than women? That maybe there are other, hate-free reasons, why everything under the sun isn't covered by a particular policy? What would motivate a man...to want other MEN...to have better lives than women? So much so that they organize their businesses to deliberately make the world a terrible place to be female?

just curious, scherzo--you do know that it's a LOT easier for men to get fixed then it is for women, right?  especially childfree women?  now, some childfree men have issues getting fixed because doctors assume they HAVE to father at least one child, but it's fewer and farther between.  

women, on the other hand?  whether or not they have kids, they're constantly denied the right to choose to have themselves fixed--because they will "change their minds" or they "are too young" or whatever other b*llsh*t reason the doctor can dream up to deny them.  which is complete and utter b*llsh*t.  whether they are 18 or 80, if they are willing to sign that paperwork that states in big red letters at ten or twelve places that YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS A PERMANENT PROCEDURE*, then they should be allowed to have it done.  

and it should not matter whether the person in question is childfree or competing with the Duggars.

so yes, it IS just another form of discrimination.  why should men have it so much easier to get themselves sexually satisfied (whether it's Viagra or being fixed if they don't want children/anymore children), yet they're trying to screw with the rights of women for the same thing?

* - this is how i've been told it is actually printed on the forms by friends who have had tubals, complete with all those font settings.

Posted Image


"Andromeda may be over but it's not dead. Not as long as we have fanfic writers dedicated to keeping it alive.  Whether you accept everything as canon or stop at a certain point. Whether you accept and enjoy Nu Drom or only accept Classic Drom, it will never be over.  Not as long as we have each other [and Beka], who binds us all together." ~ Mary Rose

Twitter * Facebook * ExIsle at Facebook

icon by mercscilla @ LJ

#80 DarthMarley

DarthMarley
  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 22 March 2012 - 12:17 AM

Why should insurance cover any elective procedure?
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."




0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users