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Obama Administrationís War On the Constitution

Obama US Constitution

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#1 Cait

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:14 PM

Really great interview about Obama and the Constitution.  It's great because it asks people who support Obama to scrutinize him better.  Please read the actual interview, I'd rather this wasn't just another partisan grudge match.

http://truth-out.org...as-constitution

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One is forced to asked the question: Is the President just another Ivy League *a$$h*le shredding civil liberties and due process and sending people to die in some shithole for purely political reasons?



There will be a historical record. "Change we can believe in" is not using the other guys' mob to clean up your own tracks while continuing to feed at the trough. Human nature is human nature, and when people find out they're being hustled, they will seek revenge, sooner or later, and it will be ugly and savage.


In a country with desperation growing everywhere, everyday — despite the "Oh, things are getting better" press releases — how could one think otherwise?


Just think about the economic crisis we are in as a country. It could never happen, they said. The American middle class was rock solid. The American dream, home ownership, education, the opportunity to get a good job if you applied yourself... and on and on. Yeah, what happened to that? It's gone.


The next question must be: "What happened to our civil liberties, to our due process, which are the foundation of any notion of real democracy?" The chickens haven't come home to roost for the majority but the foundation has been set and the Constitution gutted.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#2 Bad Wolf

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 06:56 PM

Okay I confess I only got through about 2/3 of this because there's really only so much my stomach can take. By which I mean, thanks EVER so much for reminding me of how disenfranchised I and so many others are this election.:p

Personally I believe the law is the means.  For example.  We don't have laws prohibiting gender discrimination because our goal is to have such laws.  We have those laws because our goal is to have a society  free of gender discrimination.  The laws are a means to that end. So I don't have a problem with the idea of the law as the means rather than the end.
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#3 Cait

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:16 PM

View PostBad Wolf, on 02 September 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

Okay I confess I only got through about 2/3 of this because there's really only so much my stomach can take. By which I mean, thanks EVER so much for reminding me of how disenfranchised I and so many others are this election. :p

Sorry.  Maybe I just wanted company in the disenfranchised thing.  ;)

Quote

Personally I believe the law is the means.  For example.  We don't have laws prohibiting gender discrimination because our goal is to have such laws.  We have those laws because our goal is to have a society  free of gender discrimination.  The laws are a means to that end. So I don't have a problem with the idea of the law as the means rather than the end.

OK, now I'm lost... LOL

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#4 Bad Wolf

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:33 PM

Well in the article both the interviewer and the interviewee say they believe that the law is the end.  Whereas, according to them, Obama and Bush Jr. believe the law is the means.

Without commenting on whether I think Obama and Bush see eye to eye on this, my point is that I see the law (and the Constitution) as a means to an end.

The end is life liberty the pursuit of happiness, a more perfect union, a land of freedom, a land of opportunity..however it is characterized.  Laws are there to further that end.  The Constitution is the same.

Example...a goal of the founders was freedom to loyally disagree with ones' government.  Hence the First Amendment.  The First Amendment is not the goal, Freedom of Speech and Expression is the goal.  The First Amendment is a means to achieving that goal.
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#5 Bad Wolf

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:40 PM

One of the things that bothers me about this interview is that it lambasts politicians who are too in an ivory tower but that's exactly what the interviewer and interviewee are.  They spend a great deal of time discussing ideals but at the expense of practical matters.

At the end of the day, this presidential election is a two party deal.  If you don't vote for either Romney or Obama you might as well not vote.  They spend time talking about how voting against Romney is not a valid reason to vote for Obama.  This is absolute nonsense.  Of course it's a valid reason.  I'd much prefer to have a BETTER reason but the reality is what the reality is.   I wish I was ecstatic about the job Obama's been doing but I'm not.  But I refuse to vote for a party who's "principles" are so at odds with my own.  So there it is.
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#6 Balderdash

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:11 PM

View PostBad Wolf, on 02 September 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

One of the things that bothers me about this interview is that it lambasts politicians who are too in an ivory tower but that's exactly what the interviewer and interviewee are.  They spend a great deal of time discussing ideals but at the expense of practical matters.

At the end of the day, this presidential election is a two party deal.  If you don't vote for either Romney or Obama you might as well not vote.  They spend time talking about how voting against Romney is not a valid reason to vote for Obama.  This is absolute nonsense.  Of course it's a valid reason.  I'd much prefer to have a BETTER reason but the reality is what the reality is.   I wish I was ecstatic about the job Obama's been doing but I'm not.  But I refuse to vote for a party who's "principles" are so at odds with my own.  So there it is.

And there you have it.  I can't vote for them and I can't sit this one out, I will vote for Obama.

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



"Being gay is not a Western invention, it is a human reality"  by HRC


#7 Cait

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:23 PM

Thanks for the clarification Lil. I agree.  

I read the article and knew I was in the "I have a reason to vote against Romney" category.  Romney is a moderate and if it weren't for the fact that Ginsberg [and maybe others] will retire from the SC in the next term, I might look at him seriously.  But, no matter how moderate he actually is, he'll have to nominate a conservative judge.  The Party will demand it.  I don't think we can afford that as a nation.  I really don't.  So, yeah, I'm a one issue voter this year.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#8 Bad Wolf

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:58 PM

I don't think he's moderate.  I think he was at one time.  But now he's pandering to a far more...shall we say...right wing...voice in the party?  And anyway it's about the platform.
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#9 Cait

Cait

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:51 PM

View PostBad Wolf, on 02 September 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

   And anyway it's about the platform.

Agreed.  As my John Birch Republican mother always says, "In a national election, you vote the party--not the man".  I suppose she means woman too, but I'll be honest, I'm not so sure.  ;)

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html




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