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Fair share? lux tax, rich not skate?

tax incomes french lux 2012

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#1 offworlder

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:28 PM

So what do you think bout luxury taxes?

I can back tax on lux goods, bought, when so many cannot afford even to think of it; if conessieur cigars or lux SUV have a lux tax, yachts, villa with a boat pier, BVLGARI & ilk, you know those glossy adverts, so long as that tax is not excessive to kill the industry, just a lil extra so that those folk contribute to cutting deficits..

but what bout lux income revenue tax?

http://www.telegraph...t-tax-plan.html

I do believe we need something to balance, an equalizer for those who make a ton and pay less rate than assistant who make one tenth of theirs; you remember Romney and that Berkshire guy?
I say we should have something like this French idea, but not excessive as some penalizing, and before Foxnews cable puts a hit out on me, not some 90 pct or 75 pct like an attack upon citizens or entrepreneurs.
But something to balance in the cases of the skaters and cheaters, to make sure the rich do their fair share; someone paying two millions in taxes is doing fine, but those who make over ten millions, even if it's mostly (Romney style) equity risings and not wages, and then pay less tax rate than a wage earner who makes less than 40g

I could back the top rate being something like 28 pct, then from million-and-oneth dollar onward, a lux revenue tax of say extra 20pct - but not some stiffler to trade and business and success like SEVENTYfive percent!

Hollande has a good idea, but in good ole USA it should be tempered to make a lets-do-this-together thing, fair share thing, equalizer,
whatdayasay?

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#2 Orpheus

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 04:01 PM

A historical view may be instructive:

TOP US MARGINAL TAX RATE, LAST 100 YEARS
Attached File  a1.png   19.28K   3 downloads

Though the "tax paid vs. taxable income" graph (emphasis mine) appears progressive, it is dwarfed by the sheltering/restructuring of income by the rich to avoid taxes.

Attached File  a1.png   11.7K   2 downloads
Average income tax rate in 2008 as function of taxable income.


Current overall taxation (as % of GDP) is exceptionally low, because the lowest tiers simply don't have much excess income (even as a group) and the highest tier isn't paying much. Apparently, the current top-tier tax rate isn't low enough to fund jobs and business growth, though top tier taxes on those "vital productive capitalists and jobmakers" were much higher when there were jobs and growth aplenty.

Attached File  a1.jpg   22.21K   2 downloads
Total U.S. Tax Revenue and Income Tax Revenue as a % of GDP,
1945-2011, from Office of Management and Budget Historicals

#3 UoR11

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:00 AM

The last graph Orph posted is the most important graph in all tax debates. The tax revenue as a share of GDP has essentially zero correlation to marginal tax rates. It generally hovers between 17 and 19%, with major recessions dropping it below and booms pushing it above. Any budget plan based around 22 or 24% of GDP as tax revenue is inherently dishonest.
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#4 DarthMarley

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:59 PM

View Postoffworlder, on 09 September 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:


<condensed>
I do believe we need something to balance, an equalizer for those who make a ton and pay less rate than assistant who make one tenth of theirs; you remember Romney and that Berkshire guy?


There are problems with outrage over a rate disparity here.
The lower rate Romney and buffet pay is a tax on investment income rather than wage income.
Suppose you get your income from stock dividends. The rate is lower, and the money has been taxed multiple times before it makes it to you.
If you want to encourage investment, you lower the tax rate on ROI. If you want to discourage investment, you can raise the tax rate on investment income.
Tinkering with the rate is one thing, pointing to "This high a rate worked in this point of the past!"
But the creation or destruction of incentives pervert market signals.
If investments are less attractive to investors, there is a liklihood that overall investment decreases.

Also, the taxes on investment income would impact retirement funds, health care plans, and virtually anything else that has peole expecting an income stream to pay for their ongoing personal welfare.
Complaining about Romney and buffet loses sight of the widow or retiree who are not at such a loft plane of wealth, but would lose a chunck of their "fixed income."
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#5 Rhea

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 10:51 PM

View PostOrpheus, on 09 September 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

A historical view may be instructive:

TOP US MARGINAL TAX RATE, LAST 100 YEARS
Attachment a1.png

Though the "tax paid vs. taxable income" graph (emphasis mine) appears progressive, it is dwarfed by the sheltering/restructuring of income by the rich to avoid taxes.

Attachment a1.png
Average income tax rate in 2008 as function of taxable income.


Current overall taxation (as % of GDP) is exceptionally low, because the lowest tiers simply don't have much excess income (even as a group) and the highest tier isn't paying much. Apparently, the current top-tier tax rate isn't low enough to fund jobs and business growth, though top tier taxes on those "vital productive capitalists and jobmakers" were much higher when there were jobs and growth aplenty.

Attachment a1.jpg
Total U.S. Tax Revenue and Income Tax Revenue as a % of GDP,
1945-2011, from Office of Management and Budget Historicals

When you look at the graph there's no real middle class, but a huge gap.
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#6 scherzo

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:59 AM

View PostDarthMarley, on 14 September 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

View Postoffworlder, on 09 September 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

<condensed>
I do believe we need something to balance, an equalizer for those who make a ton and pay less rate than assistant who make one tenth of theirs; you remember Romney and that Berkshire guy?


There are problems with outrage over a rate disparity here.
The lower rate Romney and buffet pay is a tax on investment income rather than wage income.
Suppose you get your income from stock dividends. The rate is lower, and the money has been taxed multiple times before it makes it to you.
If you want to encourage investment, you lower the tax rate on ROI. If you want to discourage investment, you can raise the tax rate on investment income.
Would be nice if everyone could be made to understand this. Unfortunately there is much hay to be made in cultivating division and jealousy and resentment.
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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