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Libya consulate, US ambassador attacked,


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#101 SparkyCola

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:24 PM


The mere fact that the UN is  proposing such a treaty demonstrates how ineffective it really is.

Um ... Lil? The UN is not proposing any such thing - in fact, as I noted - it has the exact opposite firmly embedded in its declaration of human rights. The UN isn't ineffective.

Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#102 Nikcara


    confused little imp

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:25 PM

Is it physically possible the the UN could ban insults against religions?  Sure.  It's just not bloody likely.  Too many countries with veto power would veto it on principal, if it ever even got to the point where it could be voted on.
Heck, even countries like Egypt don't really want it passed.  They say they want it passed because it makes some of the constituents happy, but they're not stupid enough to think that they wouldn't get sued to the stone age if the language did actually pass.  A few of them might be blind to the racism and religious intolerance in their own news, but I can assure you that in the very unlikely scenario that a law like this was passed by the UN, most of the countries calling for it now would be the most hurt by it.  

As for comparing comparing to other concerns like a blanket ban on abortion...there's a difference in likelihood of that happening. There are already unreasonable bans on abortion in some states, and already crazy prosecutors trying to jail women who miscarry.  The vice president nominee is on record saying he supports a blanket ban on abortions.  That's a little different than if it was just one politician out of many calling for it (or even a handful of politicians out of many) like this UN proposal.  I also don't know anyone who is afraid of death camps for gays in America.  Yes, we may still be fighting homophobia here.  But when gay rights activists talk about the death penalty for being gay they're typically referring to over the top anti-gay rhetoric or places where people actually get killed for being gay.
We have fourty million reasons for failure, but not a single excuse  -- Rudyard Kipling

Develop compassion for your enemies, that is genuine compassion.  Limited compassion cannot produce this altruism.  -- H. H. the Dalai Lama

#103 DarthMarley

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:32 PM

For the "It can't happen here" crowd;

Even if it can't happen here, why should those who cannot speak against an anti-blasphemy law hold high office?
And why should anyone who even pretends to be concerned with liberty support their administration?
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#104 Bad Wolf

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:51 PM

OK, my mistake on the UN proposing this thing.

But I think restraining speech because it might be offensive to a religion is a very very very bad idea.  And in the US it's unconstitutional as hell.
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#105 DarthMarley

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:37 PM



The result: national foreign relations are seriously compromised by the irresponsible act of an individual. For structural and functional reasons, that doesn’t make a lot of sense. It’s the rationale behind the Neutrality and Logan Acts. A similar rationale undergirds the ouster of states from foreign relations – along the lines of Hamilton’s dictum in Federalist No. 80 that “the peace of the Whole should not be left to the disposal of the Part.”

While I agree that such a ban would be unconstitutional, that doesn't mean it might be deemed constitutional.
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#106 offworlder


    pls don't kick offworlders, we can find a place too

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:09 PM

didn't want to start a whole thread, but PKSTN is now all hot on this- honestly, one guy a million miles away makes a movie no one saw, but because of rants on freakin you tube of all things, hundreds go out and people die, people with nothing to do with it, see the piece from Reuters, '
Western diplomatic missions throughout the Muslim world tightened security, with some closing down on expectation of big protests after Friday prayers.
An anti-Islam film made in America has enraged Muslims and led to days of protests across the Muslim world while cartoons mocking the Prophet Mohammad published in a French magazine on Wednesday were expected to compound the anger.
Egypt's highest Islamic legal official said on Thursday Muslims should follow his example of enduring insults without retaliating.
But the call looked unlikely to calm the outrage.
"An attack upon the Holy Prophet is an attack on the whole 1.5 billion Muslims. Therefore, this is something unacceptable," Pakistani Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf said in a speech to politicians, religious leaders and others.'
  ... so I guess any u.s. in PKSTN will batten down hatches over this craziness (not defending prophet, crazy taking it to others, killing others, not related, all the action far from any movie) ... 'Pakistan has declared Friday a "Day of Love for the Prophet Mohammad". Critics of the unpopular government said it was pandering to Islamist parties ' ..... and yet I don't see this with Buddhist, tao, Confucians, jewish, catholic, coptics, sufi, Sikh, or, or,
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#107 DarthMarley

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:17 PM

Death toll in Pakistan was 17 last time I checked.
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#108 Nonny


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Posted 22 September 2012 - 05:58 AM

Libyans Storm Militia Compound In Benghazi


Hundreds of protesters angry over last week's killing of the U.S. ambassador to Libya stormed the compound of the Islamic extremist militia suspected in the attack, evicting militiamen and setting fire to their building Friday.
In an unprecedented show of public anger at Libya's rampant militias, the crowd overwhelmed the compound of the Ansar al-Shariah Brigade in the center of the eastern city of Benghazi.
Ansar al-Shariah fighters initially fired in the air to disperse the crowd, but eventually abandoned the site with their weapons and vehicles after it was overrun by waves of protesters shouting "No to militias."
"I don't want to see armed men wearing Afghani-style clothes stopping me in the street to give me orders, I only want to see people in uniform," said Omar Mohammed, a university student who took part in the takeover of the site, which protesters said was done in support of the army and police.
No deaths were reported in the incident, which came after tens of thousands marched in Benghazi against armed militias. One vehicle was also burned at the compound.
For many Libyans, the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi was the last straw in one of the biggest problems Libya has faced since the ouster and death of longtime dictator Moammar Gadhafi around a year ago — the multiple mini-armies that with their arsenals of machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades are stronger than the regular armed forces and police.
The militias, a legacy of the rag-tag popular forces that fought Gadhafi's regime, tout themselves as protectors of Libya's revolution, providing security where police cannot. But many say they act like gangs, detaining and intimidating rivals and carrying out killings.
Militias made up of Islamic radicals like Ansar al-Shariah are notorious for attacks on Muslims who don't abide by their hardline ideology. Officials and witnesses say fighters from Ansar al-Shariah led the attack on the U.S. consulate, which killed Amb. Chris Stevens and three other Americans.
After taking over the Ansar compound, protesters then drove to attack the Benghazi headquarters of another Islamist militia, Rafallah Sahati. The militiamen opened fire on the protesters, who were largely unarmed. At least 20 were wounded, and there were unconfirmed witness reports of three protesters killed.
Earlier in the day, some 30,000 people filled a broad boulevard as they marched along a lake in central Benghazi on Friday to the gates of the headquarters of Ansar al-Shariah.
"No, no, to militias," the crowd chanted, filling a broad boulevard. They carried banners and signs demanding that militias disband and that the government build up police to take their place in keeping security. "Benghazi is in a trap," signs read. "Where is the army, where is the police?"
Other signs mourned the killing of Stevens, reading, "The ambassador was Libya's friend" and "Libya lost a friend." Military helicopters and fighter jets flew overhead, and police mingled in the crowd, buoyed by the support of the protesters....

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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

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