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Libya consulate, US ambassador attacked,

2012

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#21 Balderdash

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:21 PM

View PostKota, on 13 September 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

Romney made a stong statement, something President Obama should have done -

John McCain also had something to say about it:

McCain backs Romney

Quote

Republican nominee Mitt Romney has been suggesting that President Barack Obama is weak and didn't react quickly enough to condemn attacks on U.S. missions overseas. He was backed up Thursday by the party's last presidential nominee, Sen. John McCain, who said Obama has a "feckless foreign policy" that has left America weaker.

President Obama DID make a strong statement (based on facts btw):

http://www.whitehous...-benghazi-libya

Quote

This morning, President Obama condemned that attack, which he called "outrageous and shocking" in a statement from the Rose Garden.
"We're working with the government of Libya to secure our diplomats," he said. "I've also directed my Administration to increase our security at diplomatic posts around the world. And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people."

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#22 Themis

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:22 PM

View PostBalderdash, on 13 September 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I don't care what made the lunatic radical Muslims angry, they can be angry and they can learn how to handle their anger just
like the rest of the civilized world..  The next time some jackwad Religious leader issues a Fatwa against a person because they
feel that Mohammed has had his feelings hurt, I think we need to, as a group stomp the crap out of the Fatwa issuer.  Enough
is enough, the rest of the world should stop kissing these loons asses and start holding THEM accountable.

The only problem with this is that I'm not at all sure the rest of the civilized world has learned to handle anger.  Most seem to be doing better than these guys, that's true.  But violent protests and wars happen throughout the "civilized" world.  Most are over economics or politics rather than religion (though for some, politics is religion).   With you in principle, though!
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#23 offworlder

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:25 PM

I would use many grains of salt with any Romney sayings on the administration, with his agenda and all, remember how the right wing got on radio and tv the morning after the Obama election night, top priority, all efforts, all thoughts, all speech, bent toward the only goal, anything to Must get Obama out of the White House at all costs, so... Two, I see a bit of post after post right in here that seems rather agenda too, ;) , snicker.... Three, the admin have already said, news reported, that the embassy statement about feelings of Islam and the prophet was not from the admin, it was from the embassy in Cairo and not vetted, not opportunity to vet, or reported or notice beforehand; it was embassy statement alone, White House not pc or apologetic about U.S. people actions, no kowtow presentation to the world, weak world affairs, all that rot fox news luv to say.... Four, I read yesterday an expert reported in a new column who Really attacked the Bengazi consulate and why, I'll have to find that thing again for us..... Next, here is a thing, mob attacks U.S. embassy in capital of Yemen, 'death to America' stuff again, sort of the overall image of get U.S. out of mooslem regions, fight for dignity of prophet and Islam,http://www.usatoday....emen/57774256/1 . ;)
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#24 Kota

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:34 PM

If this is true, ekkk!

No Live Ammo for Marines

Quote

U.S. Marines defending the American embassy in Egypt were not permitted by the State Department to carry live ammunition, limiting their ability to respond to attacks like those this week on the U.S. consulate in Cairo.

Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson “did not permit U.S. Marine guards to carry live ammunition,” according to multiple reports on U.S. Marine Corps blogs spotted by Nightwatch. “She neutralized any U.S. military capability that was dedicated to preserve her life and protect the US Embassy.”

-snip-

While Marines are typically relied on to defend U.S. territory abroad, such as embassies, these reports indicate that the Obama administration was relying on Egypt’s new Muslim Brotherhood-backed government to ensure American security, a move observers are questioning as violence in Cairo continues to rage.


This is scary if indeed President Obama was relying on the Brotherhood and
is responsible disabling the Marines, the buck stops with him.

Will have to wait for the facts to come out.

Edited by Kota, 13 September 2012 - 12:35 PM.


#25 Mark

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:39 PM

View PostKota, on 13 September 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

If this is true, ekkk!

No Live Ammo for Marines

Quote

U.S. Marines defending the American embassy in Egypt were not permitted by the State Department to carry live ammunition, limiting their ability to respond to attacks like those this week on the U.S. consulate in Cairo.

Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson “did not permit U.S. Marine guards to carry live ammunition,” according to multiple reports on U.S. Marine Corps blogs spotted by Nightwatch. “She neutralized any U.S. military capability that was dedicated to preserve her life and protect the US Embassy.”

-snip-

While Marines are typically relied on to defend U.S. territory abroad, such as embassies, these reports indicate that the Obama administration was relying on Egypt’s new Muslim Brotherhood-backed government to ensure American security, a move observers are questioning as violence in Cairo continues to rage.


This is scary if indeed President Obama was relying on the Brotherhood and
is responsible disabling the Marines, the buck stops with him.

Will have to wait for the facts to come out.

Mark: Somehow, I doubt this report. I don't think she (the ambassador) would have the authority to order such a thing. The State Department probably would, though. If so, someone needs to rethink how that diplomatic and military authority merge for the benefit and safety of everyone!

Edited by Mark, 13 September 2012 - 12:41 PM.

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#26 Kota

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:42 PM

View PostBalderdash, on 13 September 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

View PostKota, on 13 September 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

Romney made a stong statement, something President Obama should have done -

John McCain also had something to say about it:

McCain backs Romney

Quote

Republican nominee Mitt Romney has been suggesting that President Barack Obama is weak and didn't react quickly enough to condemn attacks on U.S. missions overseas. He was backed up Thursday by the party's last presidential nominee, Sen. John McCain, who said Obama has a "feckless foreign policy" that has left America weaker.

President Obama DID make a strong statement (based on facts btw):

http://www.whitehous...-benghazi-libya

Quote

This morning, President Obama condemned that attack, which he called "outrageous and shocking" in a statement from the Rose Garden.
"We're working with the government of Libya to secure our diplomats," he said. "I've also directed my Administration to increase our security at diplomatic posts around the world. And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people."

Strong words from President Obama - "outrageous and shocking"
>shakes head<

He is only NOW increasing security?
And why didn't he do it prior to 9-11 when that's the date of our attack.

#27 Balderdash

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:00 PM

View PostKota, on 13 September 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

View PostBalderdash, on 13 September 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

View PostKota, on 13 September 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

Romney made a stong statement, something President Obama should have done -

John McCain also had something to say about it:

McCain backs Romney

Quote

Republican nominee Mitt Romney has been suggesting that President Barack Obama is weak and didn't react quickly enough to condemn attacks on U.S. missions overseas. He was backed up Thursday by the party's last presidential nominee, Sen. John McCain, who said Obama has a "feckless foreign policy" that has left America weaker.

President Obama DID make a strong statement (based on facts btw):

http://www.whitehous...-benghazi-libya

Quote

This morning, President Obama condemned that attack, which he called "outrageous and shocking" in a statement from the Rose Garden.
"We're working with the government of Libya to secure our diplomats," he said. "I've also directed my Administration to increase our security at diplomatic posts around the world. And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people."

Strong words from President Obama - "outrageous and shocking"
>shakes head<

He is only NOW increasing security?
And why didn't he do it prior to 9-11 when that's the date of our attack.

Clearly, nothing the guy says or does will do.  Anyway, carry on, the actual facts speak for themselves and I'm
not going to get caught up in all of the "head shaking" and he is NOW increasing security?!?!  LOL  There's
no way to fight that because it's conjecture on your part that you're trying to state as reality and it's not it's just
more "head shaking."

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#28 Kota

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:03 PM

What's Worse: No Marines, or (Possibly) Unarmed Marines?


Quote

Senior U.S. officials decline to discuss it, but it’s clear there were no U.S. Marines protecting U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens and his beleaguered staff at the Benghazi consulate Tuesday night. Marines are routinely posted to U.S. diplomatic outposts around the world, but the “interim” facility in Benghazi apparently was defended only by a handful of U.S. security officers and local hires. The Marines have let it be known that the two unidentified U.S. officials who died at Benghazi were not Marines.

As any Marine’ll tell you, if there had been Marines at Benghazi, they’d be among those killed.

But what’s worse? No Marines or unarmed Marines?


#29 Balderdash

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:30 PM

View PostKota, on 13 September 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

What's Worse: No Marines, or (Possibly) Unarmed Marines?


Quote

Senior U.S. officials decline to discuss it, but it’s clear there were no U.S. Marines protecting U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens and his beleaguered staff at the Benghazi consulate Tuesday night. Marines are routinely posted to U.S. diplomatic outposts around the world, but the “interim” facility in Benghazi apparently was defended only by a handful of U.S. security officers and local hires. The Marines have let it be known that the two unidentified U.S. officials who died at Benghazi were not Marines.

As any Marine’ll tell you, if there had been Marines at Benghazi, they’d be among those killed.

But what’s worse? No Marines or unarmed Marines?

I think I'll wait until there are some actual facts before I get all up in arms (so to speak).

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#30 Mark

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:38 PM

Mark: Up in arms...lol.
Mark
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Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it.
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#31 Nonny

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:43 PM

http://www.huffingto...html?1347550302

Glen Doherty, Security Officer Killed In Libya Attack, Fought Religious Proselytizing In Military

Quote

One of the security guards killed during an attack on the American consulate in Benghazi, Libya, that may have been related to an incendiary anti-Muslim video was active in a group that fights religious proselytizing in the U.S. military.
Glen Doherty, 42, a former Navy SEAL, was one of the four diplomats who died Tuesday, according to a report by the WCVB Boston news site. He grew up in Winchester, Mass.
"He was the most wonderful person," his mother, Barbara Doherty, told WCVB in confirming that she had been told Wednesday night that he was among the dead. "We are all in pain and suffering."
The State Department has not released the names of the two security guards who died along with U.S. Ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens and Sean Smith, a Foreign Service information management officer. But Doherty's sister, Katie Quigley, told the Boston Globe that her brother "was on security detail and he was protecting the ambassador and also helping the wounded’’ when he was killed....
This is how I know him:

Quote

Doherty was an "extremely active" member of the advisory board of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), an advocacy group that fights inappropriate religious proselytizing inside the armed forces, said founder Mikey Weinstein, a retired Air Force lawyer.
"He confirmed for me how deeply entrenched fundamentalist Christianity is in the DoD Spec Ops [Department of Defense Special Operations] world of the SEALs, Green Berets, Delta Force, Army Rangers USAF ... and DoD security contractors like the former Blackwater," Weinstein said in an email to The Huffington Post. Doherty "helped me on many MRFF client cases behind the scenes to facilitate assistance to armed forces members abused horribly by fundamentalist Christian proselytizing."..
Weinstein said his "irreplaceable" friend was passionate about maintaining the wall of separation between the military and religion.
"Glen told me he took criticism from both current and former SEALs for being a part of MRFF [but] also received much support for doing so from other former and current SEALs," Weinstein said. "He was also a close friend to me and my family. He will be sorely missed by us all. No dry eyes out here."
No dry eyes here either.

Edited by Nonny, 13 September 2012 - 01:50 PM.

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#32 Mark

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:46 PM

Mark: Yeah, Nonny...no matter what, my heart goes out to those who lost their lives in yet another senseless terrorist act.
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#33 Batrochides

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:29 PM

I would very much like to know why Ambassdor Stevens--whether on his own volition or on instructions from the State Department/ the White House--put himself in what would seem patently to be in harms way (i.e. a place targeted by violent demonstrations, in an area with feeble government control and rife with militant Islamic groups), with little or no protection apart from "six Libyan security guards"? The current Administration has always looked with disdain on private security contractors like the former Blackwater, preferring that U.S. government representatives keep a lower security profile at the likely increase of risk to its personnel. Only at a very few high-risk posts (IIRC Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel and Pakistan) are American ambasadors provided with federally contracted security when traveling outside of the embassy itself, In such circumstances, it would be reckless in the extreme to permit America's chief regional representative to venture into what is essentially a battle zone, and outrageous if that action was directed or condoned by the Administration.

Batrochides

#34 scherzo

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:01 PM

View PostBatrochides, on 13 September 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

I would very much like to know why Ambassdor Stevens--whether on his own volition or on instructions from the State Department/ the White House--put himself in what would seem patently to be in harms way (i.e. a place targeted by violent demonstrations, in an area with feeble government control and rife with militant Islamic groups), with little or no protection apart from "six Libyan security guards"? The current Administration has always looked with disdain on private security contractors like the former Blackwater, preferring that U.S. government representatives keep a lower security profile at the likely increase of risk to its personnel. Only at a very few high-risk posts (IIRC Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel and Pakistan) are American ambasadors provided with federally contracted security when traveling outside of the embassy itself, In such circumstances, it would be reckless in the extreme to permit America's chief regional representative to venture into what is essentially a battle zone, and outrageous if that action was directed or condoned by the Administration.

Batrochides
I wonder if 0bama will even be confronted with this by a Washington press corps, that's determined to protect his re-election effort. The entire incident is evidence of a massive foreign policy fiasco. It's certainly proved once and for all that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton really is every bit as incompetent as her boss. Good grief. :(
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#35 offworlder

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 11:34 PM

now how can anyone say that? we have not been having Marines shoot folk at consulates and embassies since Tehran 1979, I sure could not support anyone blaming Hil and Barack- Two, if you will have Marines shoot people down in a consulate in Bengazi, or embassy in Cairo, then you really should not have consulates or embassies in those countries.
Three, Ambassador Chris there was definitely not the type guy to counsel having Marines round with machines guns and rpgs to shoot down folk in his consulate or embassy, just read the features and obits on him round all the press, it is clear what type guy he was, and he sure would not seek Washington city advice on who he should take along on an outing from Tripoli over to Bengazi to go save his people and make rescues then try to diffuse and work with everyone the key players he knew well in Bengazi. But he did take along some secure officer folks to help with the evacuees over at the safe house, albeit not knowing that a terrorist hit team targeted a planned concerted highly armed assault on it.

The U.S. made the decision not to pull such consulates from those regions long before Hil and Barack came round, and the priority that to let mobs break in if they hit the fences, and not to have heavy arms round to defend consulates and embassies against even big hits like if they were fortresses; it was a pr move sure but the priorities were made and are there and the FORSERV folk all know it.
IT is sure not about Barack, or Clinton. And they did not change things in September 2001 either.
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#36 Batrochides

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:41 AM

Then, with all due respect, and with no desire to speak il of the dead, that was a most foolish, fatal action that only served to demonstrate the vulnerability of America's representatives to our adversaries, as was the case of the seizure of the embassy in Tehran in 1979.

Consulates by their nature are highly vulnerable, which is why protective construction and conspicuous security tends to be limited to the embassy.

I ask again: was the decision to go virtually unescorted to Benghazi made unilaterally by Ambasador Stevens, or by the Ambassador with the concurrence of his superiors, or on the direction of his superiors?

If one were to say that this is too soon to ask such questions, then I'll reposte with yet another question: is the appropriate time after November 6?

Batrochides

#37 BklnScott

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:08 AM

I don't know the answers to your questions, Batrochides, and I would like to.  I expect we all would, regardless of our political inclinations.  That said, if it turns out that Ambassador Stevens rushed headlong into danger to evacuate his staff without a thought for his own personal safety, does that make him a fool or a hero?

There are many kinds of ambassadors just as there are many kinds of countries and many kinds of relationships we maintain with them.  Ambassador Stevens was not an ambassador the same way the ambassador to the court of St. James is.  After all, he had been tasked to slip covertly into the country on a freighter to partner with the Libyan rebels during the civil war.  Seems like a roll up your sleeves, get your hands dirty type of diplomat to me.  I admire that.  

P.S., all things being equal, I don't think there are implications to the presidential election based on this apparent terrorist attack, but the point being made is that someone who would be president needs to learn avoid the appearance (not to mention the reality) of  leveraging the death of Americans servicemen abroad for his own political gain.  Romney embarrassed himself.  It was, as others -- including fellow Republicans -- have said, Romney's Lehman/not-ready-for-prime-time moment.

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#38 Balderdash

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:38 AM

View PostBklnScott, on 14 September 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:


P.S., all things being equal, I don't think there are implications to the presidential election based on this apparent terrorist attack, but the point being made is that someone who would be president needs to learn avoid the appearance (not to mention the reality) of  leveraging the death of Americans servicemen abroad for his own political gain.  Romney embarrassed himself.  It was, as others -- including fellow Republicans -- have said, Romney's Lehman/not-ready-for-prime-time moment.

Mr. Romney has had many such moments and then taxing his followers and campaign manager with trying to bs their way through it, not
nice.

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



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#39 offworlder

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:58 AM

let's not forget who died along with ambassador Chris, two USNavy seals with vast security and warrior experience who died in the gunfight and blasts at the safe house along ambassador Chris; he did not rush out without any thought of security or not taking any security; they just didn't have machine guns and rpg; though I would not be surprised as I said, reading features about him what type humanitarian cultural diplomatic guy he is, he did not seek advice from Washington city for his rescue trip.
I really think the priority decisions were made in years past: the US gov does not want consulates or embassies for that matter other than say three in hotspots like Baghdad and Kabul, to be heavy weapon and barrier fortresses, just don't want that impression round the world in our diplomacy. And nine Marines if they'd been there with Baretta pistols, I do believe they can carry pistols just not MG249 squad and rpg type things, would make huge difference in a paramilitary planned assault with battle weapons.
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#40 Nonny

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 10:56 AM

http://www.militaryr...ty_9-13-12.html

IN MEMORIAM

Quote

Former Navy SEAL and hardened combat veteran Glen Doherty, 42, was killed in an armed Salafi-Jihadist assault on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya.

Glen was one of the first MRFF Advisory Board members and was a passionate core contributor to the fight to prevent a fundamentalist Christian coup within the United States Armed Forces.


Glen lived and died believing in the righteous cause of religious tolerance and dialogue among all peoples and faiths around the globe....


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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot



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