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Historian says piece of papyrus refers to Jesus' wife

Christianity Historical Jesus

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#1 Cait

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:02 PM

Fascinating.

http://www.nytimes.c...us-wife.html?hp


Quote

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A historian of early Christianity at Harvard Divinity School has identified a scrap of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a phrase never seen in any piece of Scripture: “Jesus said to them, ‘My wife …'”

The faded papyrus fragment is smaller than a business card, with eight lines on one side, in black ink legible under a magnifying glass. Just below the line about Jesus having a wife, the papyrus includes a second provocative clause that purportedly says, “she will be able to be my disciple.”

The finding was made public in Rome on Tuesday at an international meeting of Coptic scholars by the historian Karen L. King, who has published several books about new Gospel discoveries and is the first woman to hold the nation’s oldest endowed chair, the Hollis professor of divinity.

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#2 DarthMarley

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:29 PM

There have been many such claims over the centuries.
I love heresy!

Too bad most similar manuscripts are locked up in the Vatican library along with the world's larges collection of vintage pornography.
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#3 Orpheus

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:35 PM

What cracks me up:
Anyone who could write --4 centuries after Jesus, with no known connection-- is suddenly an authority now. It's like a future historian with a Kevin Bacon number of 1000 revering the word of an earlier one with 150.

Don't get me wrong. I'm inclined to think Jesus probably did marry, and I don't see any good evidence that the bias against female disciples originated from him. I just find the excited reverence of "antiquity" amusing. Especially since it was common in that eras, for many centuries before and after, to attribute one's own writing to a famous thinker -- it wasn't considered fraud-- and offering your own version or interpretation of a thinker's works under their name was practically virtuous! Indeed that's *why* I don't consider any evidence (always necessarily secondhand) of his anti-woman bias particularly compelling.

--Orpheus "So why do I suspect he married? Easy: he had a Jewish mother, didn't he?"

#4 Lin731

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:54 PM

Quote

There have been many such claims over the centuries.
I love heresy!


hehehehehe...I'm diggin it too. Should be interesting to see what else might come to light. I know this has been speculated on for a very long time.

Edited by Lin731, 18 September 2012 - 06:55 PM.

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#5 Elara

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:51 PM

Interesting read. Even though, as Orph points out, it is 4 centuries after Jesus lived, it seems to be part of an ongoing belief that he was married, and had a female disciple.

As Dr King notes:

Quote

“This fragment suggests that some early Christians had a tradition that Jesus was married,” she said. “There was, we already know, a controversy in the second century over whether Jesus was married, caught up with a debate about whether Christians should marry and have sex.”

While exciting, Dr. King does point out:

Quote

She repeatedly cautioned that this fragment should not be taken as proof that Jesus, the historical person, was actually married. The text was probably written centuries after Jesus lived, and all other early, historically reliable Christian literature is silent on the question, she said.

I doubt the church is happy about this, and I am certain will be condemning it very soon, if it hasn't already.
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#6 DarthMarley

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:26 PM

View PostOrpheus, on 18 September 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

What cracks me up:
Anyone who could write --4 centuries after Jesus, with no known connection-- is suddenly an authority now. It's like a future historian with a Kevin Bacon number of 1000 revering the word of an earlier one with 150.

Don't get me wrong. I'm inclined to think Jesus probably did marry, and I don't see any good evidence that the bias against female disciples originated from him. I just find the excited reverence of "antiquity" amusing. Especially since it was common in that eras, for many centuries before and after, to attribute one's own writing to a famous thinker -- it wasn't considered fraud-- and offering your own version or interpretation of a thinker's works under their name was practically virtuous! Indeed that's *why* I don't consider any evidence (always necessarily secondhand) of his anti-woman bias particularly compelling.

--Orpheus "So why do I suspect he married? Easy: he had a Jewish mother, didn't he?"

Psuedepigrapha is the term used for works attributed to others.

http://wesley.nnu.ed...cal-literature/
http://www.gnosis.org/library.html

Efforts to link Jesus to the  Essenes near Qumran speculate that in that community, anyone called "rabbi" would have been married.
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#7 Nonny

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:06 AM

I think I'll just sit back and enjoy the unholy mess the Vatican makes of this. :rolleyes:   :lol:

Edited by Nonny, 19 September 2012 - 05:07 AM.

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#8 Chakoteya

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:15 AM

Totally unimportant. It's the message, not the man that matters in the end.
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#9 Kota

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:30 PM

Interesting indeed, but real - doutful in my book or at least in my bible.



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