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Libya was “an act of terror”? B-but you said...

Benghazi Attack Terrorism Obama 2012

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#41 scherzo

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:01 AM

Libyan president to NBC: Anti-Islam film had 'nothing to do with' US Consulate attack

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By NBC News staff
Updated at 7:59 a.m. ET: An anti-Islam film that sparked violent protests in many countries had "nothing to do with" a deadly attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi earlier this month, Libya's president told NBC News.
In an exclusive interview with NBC News' Ann Curry, President Mohamed Magarief discounted claims that the attack was in response to a movie produced in California and available on YouTube. He noted that the assault happened on Sept. 11 and that the video had been available for months before that.

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The Obama administration initially maintained that the attacks were directly linked to protests over the film. Speaking on NBC’s “Meet the Press” on Sept. 16, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice said: “What happened in Benghazi was in fact initially a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired hours before in Cairo, almost a copycat of the demonstrations against our facility in Cairo, prompted by the video.”
There is a consolation prize for our Liar and Chief though. His administration's endless harping on this stupid movie has now generated actual violence and protests!

Think we would have seen this if Team 0bama hadn't gone into CYA mode, and exponentially increased awareness of the movie? :think: Get them gone NOW!

Edited by scherzo, 26 September 2012 - 10:02 AM.

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#42 SparkyCola

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:07 AM

^ Oh I absolutely think the responsibility is with them. You and I agree on this point. To say that the West should change to appease the Islamic extremists is ... imho ...totally nuts. I don't think anyone here is saying that, though (just to be clear).

The principle to me is analogous to when people say "There's a problem where sometimes people judge women at work for not wearing make up. Therefore, women should wear make up." ...uh, right observation, wrong conclusion. The problem is not on the side of the women who choose not to wear make up. Duh.

So don't get me wrong. I don't believe the west has an obligation or responsibility to bring up the standard of education in the Islamic world - I just believe it would help a LOT.

It seems to me that Lack of Education and Religious Dogma go hand in hand. How else could you sell such an extreme but nonsensical viewpoint but to have an audience who don't have the skills to critically evaluate it, or source other viewpoints, or even read about it for themselves? It's akin to Mediaeval Europe.

Sparky

PS- have to confess that I also find offworlder's posts difficult to read (mainly due to the formatting style), sometimes this results in me skipping over them. Apologies...I get the context now.
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#43 Dev F

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:17 PM

View Postscherzo, on 26 September 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

His administration's endless harping on this stupid movie has now generated actual violence and protests!
Yes, the administration's comments were so diabolical that knowledge of the film actually traveled back through time and it was condemned in the Egyptian press the week before, leading to the Cairo protests, which were being widely reported before the Benghazi story even broke.

Let's use Occam's Razor here. In Egypt, Salafist leaders were stoking outrage against an offensive anti-Islamic film, which led to violent protests in which protesters attempted to storm the US embassy. At the exact same time in Libya, a city with a restive Salafi population is the site of an attack in which angry locals storm the US consulate. Particularly at first, when information is still coming in, it's not unreasonable to think the two are connected, even if they ultimately turn out to be coincidental.

Edited by Dev F, 26 September 2012 - 01:19 PM.


#44 scherzo

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:33 PM

View PostDev F, on 26 September 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on 26 September 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

His administration's endless harping on this stupid movie has now generated actual violence and protests!
Yes, the administration's comments were so diabolical that knowledge of the film actually traveled back through time and it was condemned in the Egyptian press the week before, leading to the Cairo protests, which were being widely reported before the Benghazi story even broke.
Save your sarcasm for a subject where the facts actually support your pov Dev. The outbreak in my posted video occurred AFTER the 0bama administration ran their imbecilic apology ad on Pakistani TV. Or are we really going to pretend the freaks in that video all knew about this video well before the attacks in Benghazi?

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Let's use Occam's Razor here. In Egypt, Salafist leaders were stoking outrage against an offensive anti-Islamic film, which led to violent protests in which protesters attempted to storm the US embassy. At the exact same time in Libya, a city with a restive Salafi population is the site of an attack in which angry locals storm the US consulate. Particularly at first, when information is still coming in, it's not unreasonable to think the two are connected, even if they ultimately turn out to be coincidental.
It IS unreasonable to think the two are connected, when you have information on hand telling you it ISN'T. Get ready to do some hardcore dismissin'
U.S. Officials Knew Libya Attacks Were Work of Al Qaeda Affiliates

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Within 24 hours of the 9-11 anniversary attack on the United States consulate in Benghazi, U.S. intelligence agencies had strong indications al Qaeda–affiliated operatives were behind the attack, and had even pinpointed the location of one of those attackers. Three separate U.S. intelligence officials who spoke to The Daily Beast said the early information was enough to show that the attack was planned and the work of al Qaeda affiliates operating in Eastern Libya.

Nonetheless, it took until late last week for the White House and the administration to formally acknowledge that the Benghazi assault was a terrorist attack. On Sunday, Obama adviser Robert Gibbs explained the evolving narrative as a function of new information coming in quickly on the attacks. "We learned more information every single day about what happened,” Gibbs said on Fox News. “Nobody wants to get to the bottom of this faster than we do.”
So clear evidence of one seriously dishonest presidential administration, and their defenders continue to swagger around as if only ignorant fools could have a problem with Team 0bama.
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#45 Balderdash

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:44 PM

I've been trying to figure out what the big eff'in deal is and why what I've seen and heard didn't leave me feeling like
I'd been lied to by a bunch of stupid,evil imbeciles.

http://mediamatters....-and-p/190150#a




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Fox News is driving this non-issue and almost every bit of it is a lie.  Click each link.

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#46 scherzo

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:31 PM

View PostBalderdash, on 26 September 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

While I'd love nothing more than spending the next hour absorbing spin from the liberal fascists at Media Matters, why don't you just point out the lies that have been posted? If there are errors in the links I've included(none of which are Fox btw)I'd be interested to know what they are.
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#47 Dev F

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:58 PM

View Postscherzo, on 26 September 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

Save your sarcasm for a subject where the facts actually support your pov Dev. The outbreak in my posted video occurred AFTER the 0bama administration ran their imbecilic apology ad on Pakistani TV. Or are we really going to pretend the freaks in that video all knew about this video well before the attacks in Benghazi?

Are you seriously suggesting that even though the video had already provoked large, chaotic protests in one of the central nations of the Arab Spring, protests that immediately garnered international media attention, the rest of the Arab world wouldn't have noticed if Obama hadn't said anything? Absurd.

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It IS unreasonable to think the two are connected, when you have information on hand telling you it ISN'T. Get ready to do some hardcore dismissin'

I need not get particularly hardcore to point out that this information doesn't disprove anything. It became clear very soon after the attacks that they were well coordinated and well armed, clearly not the work of a mere mob. Suspicion immediately fell on the city's Salafi militias, which had been responsible for other recent acts of violence. What wasn't immediately clear was whether the attack had planned for September 11, or whether the militia members decided on the fly that an existing protest provided ideal cover for an attack. As I said, the events in Cairo rendered the latter a distinct possibility, and the initial reports on the ground were far from clear on this point.

I'm not sure why you think that the report you linked to belies any of this. If the militias involved were affiliated with al-Qaeda, does that render an opportunistic attack impossible? Or is this that far-right thing where if you say "It was a coordinated attack by an anti-American militia" you're being soft and equivocal, but if you know the magic word and say "It was terrorism!" you're on the side of right and freedom?

Edited by Dev F, 26 September 2012 - 10:06 PM.


#48 scherzo

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:13 AM

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Are you seriously suggesting that even though the video had already provoked large, chaotic protests in one of the central nations of the Arab Spring, protests that immediately garnered international media attention, the rest of the Arab world wouldn't have noticed if Obama hadn't said anything? Absurd.
:think: I see how this works. Terrible things must never be connected to the wise actions of our beloved leftist King. It may seem to the untrained eye, that pain and suffering result from his actions. But 0bama's strength of character and impeccable hard-left credentials make that simply impossible.(I'd better write this down...)

In this case though, we're required to ignore the timing of the violence escalation in Pakistan, to give His Majesty his regularly scheduled pass. But go ahead, smile for the cameras and pretend it's impossible for The President of the United States and his assorted stooges to exponentially increase awareness of something. The people who absolutely NEEEEEED to believe that nonsense..surely will.

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I need not get particularly hardcore to point out that this information doesn't disprove anything. It became clear very soon after the attacks that they were well coordinated and well armed, clearly not the work of a mere mob. Suspicion immediately fell on the city's Salafi militias, which had been responsible for typing typing typing, further typing, stream of typingness, far-right etc...
This new information about exactly WHEN our government knew who, and what, was responsible for the attack...proves 0bama and co. are sleazeball liars. The End.

To this day, the administration keeps propping up this ridiculous movie in their flailing attempt to re-direct blame. They're fully aware that their Kos/Huffpo base will accept ANY argument they make without question, and are relying on their media allies to provide cover from the rest of us. Wotta crew!
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#49 Orpheus

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:38 AM

I attempted to gather some objective data on this by looking up the Arabic version of the video on the Internet Wayback Machine in the hope of finding how many views/comments it had before Sept 11, but had no luck. Its URL was www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsGPOTpU-dU, if you know of, or have access, to other suitable research resources.

The closest I have to any indication is a NYT article from Sept 11, 2012, when the video was still online in its original form, and a reporter could have seen relevant numbers. From that article:

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A a 14-minute trailer for the English-language film, which was posted on YouTube in July, attracted little attention until last week, when a version dubbed into Arabic was posted on the same YouTube channel and then copied and viewed tens of thousands of times more. (The Arabic version was removed from the filmmaker’s YouTube channel after this post was originally published.)

Given the state of internet connectivity, I find it highly implausible that it was copied and *hosted* tens of thousands of times, when YouTube was already hosting it on one of the world's highest capacity public video networks for free. I take it that the author meant to indicate that s/he estimated that it was viewed 10,000s of times more -- possibly by CD. I can't imagine how this number could be anything but a guess, given the private nature of CD or other personal copies, but it does suggest that the "Viewed" number on the YouTube page was such that "tens of thousands" was a significant enough addition to justify making the guess. The English version, for example, currently stands at almost 5 million (the article states that it was all but ignored during the relevant timeframe), so guessing at "tens of thousands" of added views would be meaningless, especially since it *was* widely hosted on countless major media websites after the attack.

From this context, I would guess that the YouTube view counter stood somewhere in the 1000s or 10,000s, not 100,000s or millions

I leave it to you to decide whether my logic is plausible (It doesn't meet my criteria for proof) and whether 10K-100K views worldwide would be enough to spark an attack in that modest locale.

A Google search for articles mentioning riots, Benghazi and YouTube, posted during Sept 1-10, turned up only 12,300 hits, and few mentioned this video (e.g. they referred to YouTube videos OF riots), and I find the dates highly suspect on the few I checked that did mention this cause for riots in Benghazi, since they also mentioned the attack which hadn't yet taken place.

Perhaps someone else is interested enough in objective facts to look more closely at those search results for confirmatory evidence (or its absence). Regrettably, I simply don't have the time -- but prior evidence of such film-inspired riots would be much more interesting than the endless post facto media echos, spin and recycling I see on the web and the large media outlets

Back issues of international papers, either in local libraries or online, could resolve this quickly.

#50 offworlder

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:26 AM

not sure what you'r lookin for; things in the West press on that vid before the 11th? but it was the whipping up, the tv replays, the imams making own vids on that vid, to make up the mobs for their agenda, in the East Med, not the west press, in the Arab language vids and tv, not so much press, I don't even think it was much in their print, it was in their visuals, and audios, it was speeches and finger point and whip it all up, posted up videos, and reshow in tv; that weekend; so I don't expect nor do I have the resource to find that stuff. If you are talking about Barack, it would not be before the 11th.
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#51 Orpheus

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:08 PM

People who riot want others to know what outraged them, and any report of a riot that didn't cite its cause would stand out as exceptionally bad. I sought prior reportage of the outrage or riots spawned by it (there were many reports of recent riots in Bengazi for other cited reasons) in the world media to confirm that it wasn't a WH-invented issue.

I take no stand on the issue. I just went looking for facts. I hope someone else will continue looking, because it seems a point that could be easily confirmed, and I vastly prefer that to third-party impressions and allegations after the fact. A major outrage would have been reported in Muslim media, at least!

Sadly, a lack of time, and a hard-to-troubleshoot personal networking issue after a recent storm preclude me from looking further than I did.

Edited by Orpheus, 27 September 2012 - 01:13 PM.


#52 Balderdash

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:47 PM

View Postscherzo, on 26 September 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

View PostBalderdash, on 26 September 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

While I'd love nothing more than spending the next hour absorbing spin from the liberal fascists at Media Matters, why don't you just point out the lies that have been posted? If there are errors in the links I've included(none of which are Fox btw)I'd be interested to know what they are.

Better yet...

Can you post a link to the speech where President Obama apologized to Pakistan and/or apologized to anyone for US foreign policy?
Can you post a link where there is proof of any kind that the President lied about events on September 11, 2012?  Not innuendo or right
leaning pundits just saying sh*t.


Transcript from Rose Garden 9/12/2012:

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I strongly condemn the outrageous attack on our diplomatic facility in Benghazi, which took the lives of four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens. Right now, the American people have the families of those we lost in our thoughts and prayers. They exemplified America's commitment to freedom, justice, and partnership with nations and people around the globe, and stand in stark contrast to those who callously took their lives.
I have directed my Administration to provide all necessary resources to support the security of our personnel in Libya, and to increase security at our diplomatic posts around the globe. While the United States rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, we must all unequivocally oppose the kind of senseless violence that took the lives of these public servants.
On a personal note, Chris was a courageous and exemplary representative of the United States. Throughout the Libyan revolution, he selflessly served our country and the Libyan people at our mission in Benghazi. As Ambassador in Tripoli, he has supported Libya's transition to democracy. His legacy will endure wherever human beings reach for liberty and justice. I am profoundly grateful for his service to my Administration, and deeply saddened by this loss.
The brave Americans we lost represent the extraordinary service and sacrifices that our civilians make every day around the globe. As we stand united with their families, let us now redouble our own efforts to carry their work forward.

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To this day, the administration keeps propping up this ridiculous movie in their flailing attempt to re-direct blame.

Proof please.

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#53 Kota

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:34 PM



#54 Lin731

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:46 PM

I'm baffled by the continuing attempts to argue positions not being made here by anyone or assigning incompetence or lies to what clearly was neither one. I listened to an interview with a UN diplomat and they were discussing the security situation at embassies and it was asserted by this diplomat that they tend NOT to be able to do their jobs off in the outskirts under heavy guard. Their JOB is to engage the local population, you don't do that 10 miles from town under heavy guard. What happened was a horrible thing but these guys don't go into these jobs without knowing the risks. Not to mention this wasn't an embassy so it doesn't have the level of security that an embassy would have and all this pissing and moaning about apologising for that god awful film...Seriously the film DID spark protests in the region and I doubt Christian would react well to such a smear on Jesus. The difference is we have a history of democracy here that they lack so we don't react to the degree they do. Here in the US, we try to legislate God into everything instead.
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#55 scherzo

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:07 PM

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Here in the US, we try to legislate God into everything instead.
We try to what? :dontgetit:
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#56 scherzo

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:15 AM

Uh oh...
Dems join chorus questioning Obama on attack

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Senate Democrats joined Republicans Thursday in questioning the Obama administration's handling of the fatal Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya and why the administration refused for days to acknowledge that it was a terrorist attack linked to al Qaeda.

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee, chaired by Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., circulated a bipartisan letter addressed to Deputy Secretary of State Thomas Nides, asking for an "accounting of the attacks against U.S. missions in Egypt, Libya and Yemen," according to a copy obtained by The Washington Examiner.

The lawmakers are also demanding to know whether the administration had any advance warnings of the Libyan attack and, if so, whether it had shared that information with U.S. personnel on the ground.

The letter marks the first time congressional Democrats have so directly expressed their dissatisfaction with the administration's response to inquiries about the attacks, which resulted in the death of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three others and raised questions about U.S. security throughout the Middle East and Northern Africa.

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#57 ilexx

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:12 AM

LOL Upon reading the new OT-guidelines and agreeing to them, I kept thinking: "Wow! So much has changed since I last visited EI!" Looking at this thread I realize that Lampedusa was right stating that we need to make sure everything appears to have changed, if we want to make sure that things stay the same!

#58 Balderdash

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:13 AM

View Postilexx, on 28 September 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

LOL Upon reading the new OT-guidelines and agreeing to them, I kept thinking: "Wow! So much has changed since I last visited EI!" Looking at this thread I realize that Lampedusa was right stating that we need to make sure everything appears to have changed, if we want to make sure that things stay the same!

heh!  Pretty much.

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#59 offworlder

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:08 AM

that's no uh oh, except in the realm of 'tow the party line'; any time anything happens with Americans abroad the congressional don't know what happened or how or why so they ask; and no admin, not the W or any others really , ever want to give so much answers and information to the level that every congressional is fully satisfied, they'd just say Well They will never be satisfied even if we go overboard, so we'll do underboard anyway; no body is ever going to be satisfied, it's their jobs not to be, the press, the congress, just all of them. it's not this admin, it's every admin; can't tell you how many times, thousands, i've seen the Opposition MPs in Britain bring up and sling up on the current cabinet and PM on just anything that happens, As If it would be better with them in there, ha ...... and remember, it is de rigeur with every admin that we do not defend consulates and embassies to the level of compounds in US, because we don't want to be seen shooting hundreds of people down in foreign cities. And the diplomatic staffs all know this; and it's been policy for a long time that the main defense outside the gate is by the foreign police and para forces in the foreign cities.
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#60 scherzo

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:05 PM

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“First of all, we’ve had 9 days of lies…If a president of either party…had had a terrorist incident and gotten on an airplane [after remarks] and flown off to a fundraiser in Las Vegas, they would have been crucified…it should have been, should have been, the equivalent, for Barack Obama, of George Bush’s “flying over Katrina” moment.

But nothing was said at all. Nothing will be said. It is unacceptable to specifically decide that you will not tell the American people information they have a right to know.

The main stream media has made themselves the enemy of the American people.

It is a threat to the very future of the country; we’ve crossed a new and frightening line on the slippery slope, and it needs to be talked about.” ~ Pat Caddell
Integrity? Let's hope it rubs off on some of his fellow Dems.
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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