Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Arrow: Lone Gunman

Arrow

  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#41 NeuralClone

NeuralClone
  • Islander
  • 23,092 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:06 PM

Yeah, Oliver tends to have a team of people working with him in the comic kind of like the way Batman often has Alfred or Oracle back at the bat-cave handling that side of things. Oliver has had other archers work with him (e.g., Roy Harper) and even had other archers as enemies (e.g., Tommy Merlyn becomes Merlyn).

It'll be interesting to see who becomes who on this series. They could easily have Thea become Oliver's sidekick (given her nickname of "Speedy"), Laurel become Black Canary, and Tommy become Oliver's archenemy. Out of those, Laurel becoming Black Canary seems the most likely to me. But we don't really know much about Tommy yet.

View PostQueenTiye, on 26 October 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

Since they went out of their way to show the name and since the next few scenes featured information about Digg's brother being killed in the line of duty, I can't imagine that it is any kind of coincidence, nor just an Easter Egg.  I'm reasonably certain that Andrew Diggle is, in script, Digg's dearly-departed brother.
I agree that it seems likely given the evidence we have so far. It'd be contrived but comic book stories are loaded with contrivances and convenient plot points. So it wouldn't really be that much of a stretch.

Edited by NeuralClone, 26 October 2012 - 11:10 PM.

"My sexuality's not the most interesting thing about me."
— Cosima Niehaus, Orphan Black, "Governed By Sound Reason and True Religion"

#42 G-man

G-man

    Is there a problem?

  • Moderator
  • 8,627 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:58 AM

View PostQueenTiye, on 26 October 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

View PostG-man, on 26 October 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Hmmm ... as for partners/sidekicks ...

They introduced Felicity (the IT lady); there's Speedy; there's Laurel Lance; and there's Diggle ... which seems to indicate a potential of four partners ... maybe they're more Ollie's support staff (like Buffy's scoobies) rather than comrades in arms.

Again, I'm finding their development of Laurel (and the purported romance between her and Ollie) to be incredibly forced.  It's as if they don't have enough confidence to give Laurel her own independent storyline, even though they've given her a supporting cast of her own.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Present-day comics has Green Arrow with a whole team of "eyes" - people in radio and satellite communications with him at all time - they watch him fight, screen his environment, and can talk to him even while he is fighting. So, generally speaking, he only has fellow archers for partners, but he does have a bullpen of sorts. And like I said, Digg is evocative of another character that was around Ollie in comics for a while, who provided some degree of protection while he was Mayor, and who knew that he had to duck out and be Green Arrow sometimes (at least I think he knew).

So, this is playing out along those lines.

QT

Ah.  All of that is news to me.  So, OK.  That makes sense, and does help to differentiate him from Batman.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself
Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#43 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,309 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 01:46 PM

View PostNeuralClone, on 26 October 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

Yeah, Oliver tends to have a team of people working with him in the comic kind of like the way Batman often has Alfred or Oracle back at the bat-cave handling that side of things. Oliver has had other archers work with him (e.g., Roy Harper) and even had other archers as enemies (e.g., Tommy Merlyn becomes Merlyn).

Thank you! I thought Merlyn was a bad guy! I just couldn't quite remember. The most obvious trigger would be a tussle over Laurel, but it's possible that Merlyn was in on the conspiracy in the first place. And if they add superpowers later on, then the powers themselves could derange Tommy. But I am betting on the love triangle.

While it does seem evident that Laurel will become Black Canary (scream or no), it doesn't feel right yet. It feels forced. On the other hand, Thea's desire for stronger familial ties seems the perfect set up for her to follow behind her big brother.  

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#44 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,921 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

The producers have made it pretty clear that there are no superpowers in this show's universe. I see no reason to expect that to change.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#45 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,309 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 01:58 PM

That's fine with me. Green Arrow never had "powers" and Black Canary barely uses hers. Merlyn, IIRC (and I might not), was a master hypnotist, so again, special powers not required.

(On the other hand, I wish they wouldn't limit themselves, as later seasons could naturally lend to Justice League team-ups. But maybe they will have a way to represent the supers without resorting to powers. That could be interesting!)

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#46 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,921 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:14 PM

^Well, let's keep in mind that superhero team-ups in live action are a fairly recent trend. We've had plenty of superhero shows and films over the decades that ignored the larger universe of the comics and just treated the central hero as the only one of his or her kind. Prior to Smallville and the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the only instances I can think of where a live-action superhero franchise based on comics featured crossover appearances by outside heroes from the same company were the two Incredible Hulk revival movies that teamed up Bill Bixby with Thor and Daredevil (as backdoor pilots for series about those characters). I'm not counting the Green Hornet crossover on Batman in the '60s, since the Green Hornet wasn't a DC character (or even a comics character, really).

Indeed, this show is clearly trying to follow the lead of the Nolan Bat-films, and there was no larger DC universe ever hinted at in those. So just because Smallville did JL team-ups, that doesn't mean Arrow will. I very much doubt that Arrow will be modeling itself on Smallville in any way.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#47 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:24 PM

Despite simularities between Laurel and Rachel Dawson I don't see too many parallels between Arrow and the Nolan Batman movies. Green Arrow is stomething of a clone of Batman anyway, but at seems like they're style wise following Smallville's lead. And I think it's too early on to say that Laurel will become The Black Canary on this show.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#48 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,309 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 06:00 PM

Suggesting a Justice League-like match up later in the series does not at all imply a Smallville comparison.  First of all, the show in no way is as campy and young as Smallville, which, after all, started off in high school.  It is far grittier and real, and that's fine.  That's WHY I thought a less "super' version of the Justice League might be fun - precisely because they would be nothing like the Smallville version, and precisely because I'd like to know what the creative version of the Flash and Superman might be, if they don't have their iconic "powers."

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#49 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 06:20 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on 27 October 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

Suggesting a Justice League-like match up later in the series does not at all imply a Smallville comparison.  First of all, the show in no way is as campy and young as Smallville, which, after all, started off in high school.  It is far grittier and real, and that's fine.  That's WHY I thought a less "super' version of the Justice League might be fun - precisely because they would be nothing like the Smallville version, and precisely because I'd like to know what the creative version of the Flash and Superman might be, if they don't have their iconic "powers."

QT


I said style wise it's closer to Smallville than the Nolan Batman movies were and I'd hardly call Smallville campy nor was the cast of characters that much younger than the ones we have here especially at the end of the series. I think any talk of a JLA storyline is a bit premature for the show as of yet.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#50 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,921 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:04 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on 27 October 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

Suggesting a Justice League-like match up later in the series does not at all imply a Smallville comparison.  First of all, the show in no way is as campy and young as Smallville, which, after all, started off in high school.  It is far grittier and real, and that's fine. That's WHY I thought a less "super' version of the Justice League might be fun - precisely because they would be nothing like the Smallville version, and precisely because I'd like to know what the creative version of the Flash and Superman might be, if they don't have their iconic "powers."

That's not what I meant. My point was that most TV shows and movies based on comics heroes have not done crossovers with other heroes at all, but have instead portrayed their heroes as unique. Just because one recent series had a lot of crossovers with other heroes, that doesn't mean it should be taken for granted that another show would do the same. After all, this show is blatantly imitating Nolan's Batman, and there certainly weren't any other superheroes in Nolan's film universe.

Granted, we already know there's going to be one other DC hero character appearing pretty soon:
Spoiler
So there could be more. But depowered versions of Superman or the Flash? No, that's not the way they'd do it. The producers have said pretty clearly that they're only drawing on nonpowered characters. So if we did see other DC heroes, they'd most likely be characters in the martial-artist or detective or weapons-expert part of the spectrum -- folks like Bronze Tiger, Wildcat, Guardian, Katana, or the Question, say.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#51 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,309 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:05 PM

View PostDWF, on 27 October 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I said style wise it's closer to Smallville than the Nolan Batman movies were and I'd hardly call Smallville campy nor was the cast of characters that much younger than the ones we have here especially at the end of the series. I think any talk of a JLA storyline is a bit premature for the show as of yet.

View PostQueenTiye, on 27 October 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

(On the other hand, I wish they wouldn't limit themselves, as later seasons could naturally lend to Justice League team-ups. But maybe they will have a way to represent the supers without resorting to powers. That could be interesting!)

QT

Emphasis mine...

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#52 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,309 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:10 PM

View PostChristopher, on 27 October 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

That's not what I meant. My point was that most TV shows and movies based on comics heroes have not done crossovers with other heroes at all, but have instead portrayed their heroes as unique. Just because one recent series had a lot of crossovers with other heroes, that doesn't mean it should be taken for granted that another show would do the same. After all, this show is blatantly imitating Nolan's Batman, and there certainly weren't any other superheroes in Nolan's film universe.

Sure.  But that doesn't mean that over time people don't wish the DC universe would represent itself more fully onscreen, and therefore hope for the teamups.  Personally, I had checked out of the Smallville Universe really early on, as it was just too campy and soapy for my tastes.  What brought me back to the show was the fun of the occasional superhero introduction, late in the show's life.

Quote

Granted, we already know there's going to be one other DC hero character appearing pretty soon:
Spoiler
So there could be more. But depowered versions of Superman or the Flash? No, that's not the way they'd do it. The producers have said pretty clearly that they're only drawing on nonpowered characters. So if we did see other DC heroes, they'd most likely be characters in the martial-artist or detective or weapons-expert part of the spectrum -- folks like Bronze Tiger, Wildcat, Guardian, Katana, or the Question, say.

I didn't know that, so YAY on the spoiler. :)  And, re, other characters - sure, that's fine! :)  There are other teams besides the Justice League, and Ollie was on a couple of them (I mentioned the Outsiders either in this thread or the previous one), so all that is fine.  I'm just voicing my opinion in FAVOR of more heros showing up over the course of time.

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#53 petedude

petedude
  • Islander
  • 62 posts

Posted 18 January 2014 - 01:06 AM

Holy thread resurrection, Batman! :D  But then, I'm just now catching up on Arrow.

I didn't find Smallville to be purposely campy, although they did hit those notes occasionally.  In fact, that show would dig itself into moments where camp was the only way to move on with the episode.

I can't say this show blatantly copies Nolan, but it certainly DOES draw heavily on Nolan's work for tone.  Which is probably natural given people seem to expect more realistic, grittier vigilante/superhero stories lately.

They could find some way to work superheroes into Arrow and keep it gritty, but it would take some work.  It took Smallville fair pains to have superheroes without wading knee-deep into DC mythology-- for at least the first handful of seasons, they were trying to keep the show more accessible and less geeky.

Of course, they could also slowly lighten the tone of Arrow such that the introduction of superheroes would be less of a departure, but then doing so might ruin the dramatic momentum they've built.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Arrow

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users