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Arrow: Damaged

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#21 G-man

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:27 AM

Absolutely.

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#22 Josh

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

On a good news front, the ratings are holding *very* strong. I wouldn't be surprised if Arrow gets renewed for a second season soon.
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#23 Bad Wolf

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

Yup.  CW is thrilled.
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#24 Lambsilencer

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

View PostG-man, on 08 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

Hmmm ... OK, I admit I'm far more interested in the dynamic between Ollie and Thea, than I am of the Ollie-Laurel romance which comes across to me as being forced.

Part of this is because of the actresses.  The girl playing Thea has this quality about her that just draws my attention, whereas the girl playing Laurel is blandly attractive but strikes me more as a generic presence than a character.

Same here. Thea offers a very interesting dynamic between her and Oliver. She is a bit of his center in this unhinged world. And even though she sometimes acts out and becomes this typical (CW) brat, she has a deeper wisdom about her that I find very intriguing.
I think Thea is on the verge of figuring out Oliver's secret. And I would like for that to happen sooner rather than later, because I think their relationship would become even more multi-layered and interesting to see developed. But to make Thea the Speedy from the comics at this point might feel a bit ridiculous, as she is just what, 16 years old? A bit young to be a crime-fighting heroine. (Yes, I know about Hit-Girl, but "Kick-Ass" is not nearly to be taken as seriously as "Arrow".)

As for her portrayer, Willa Holland - as I wrote in an earlier "Arrow" review thread, I think that she is drop dead gorgeous (doesn't hurt that she really loves to show off those long legs), and is quite the talented actress. The way she often shows her true emotions only through her eyes is a rare quality. I've seen her in many roles before this one, and always found her intriguing to watch.

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Edited by Lambsilencer, 08 November 2012 - 05:10 PM.


#25 Themis

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

I've got my quibbles, and my knowledge of the comic book GA ends around the great GA-GL series (and I have the original comics).  That said, this show is still full of intrigue that makes it appointment tv.
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#26 Christopher

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:27 PM

Oh, by the way, apparently the Starling City District Attorney is another DC character, Kate Spencer, who in the comics is the superhero called the Manhunter (the one who isn't a Martian or a Guardian-built killer robot). And the numbers on Ollie's prisoner ID plate in his mug shot are the issue number and year in which Green Arrow debuted. And the English guy on the island, Eddie Fyers, was named for some other, more benevolent DC character. Between all that and Laurel's reference to wearing fishnets, they really went all-out with the Easter eggs.
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#27 QueenTiye

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:59 PM

Another Easter egg - Dinah talking about wearing fishnets. Notwithstanding, there's no chemistry between Oliver and her, and every scene with them trying to be romantic drags.

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#28 DWF

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:23 PM

View PostNeuralClone, on 07 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

View PostDWF, on 07 November 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

I like Katie Cassidy too, she seems to know how to express herself without a lot of words. And I really liked the fight between Deathlock and Oliver's mentor, but I did find it odd that there's so many people on that island. And the way Oliver lives I have to wonder when he does manage to sleep, I imagine the lack of sleep must be getting to him. As for Det. Lance I think his drunkeness in this ep. was about his daughter and his own guilt about her death, but I don't think he's got a drinking problem.
We don't really know enough yet but it seemed to be heavily implied that the people on the island were there looking for the soldier helping Oliver survive. It's possible they were there for some other reason as well. That seems to be the most likely reason we have so far, though.

As for sleeping, we already know that Oliver is haunted by nightmares about his time on the island. He's obviously in better shape than he let on during his conversations with Laurel but there was clearly some truth to what he was saying too.

About the island, it reminded me of Lost where the island appeared to be desserted yet it turned out that there's a lot of people living there. And I have to wonder if The Queen's Gambit was headed there on purpose. And I think the producers are just missing a beat, meaning that Oliver seemed to be able to sleep off being poisoned, they're just making his life too busy for sleep.
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#29 DWF

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:27 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on 09 November 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:

Another Easter egg - Dinah talking about wearing fishnets. Notwithstanding, there's no chemistry between Oliver and her, and every scene with them trying to be romantic drags.

QT

To me it looks like Laurel wants to rip off Oliver's clothes in just about every scene they're in, she's cleary attracted to him whcih is why she gave Tommy the brush off.
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#30 Josh

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

Quote

To me it looks like Laurel wants to rip off Oliver's clothes in just about every scene they're in, she's cleary attracted to him whcih is why she gave Tommy the brush off.

As gross as it sounds, at least based on chemistry, I'd find Oliver and Thea together more plausible than Oliver and Laurel.
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#31 QueenTiye

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

Well, if you go by chemistry between the actors rather than paying attention to who their characters are - I agree.  Thea and Ollie relate to each other.

As it happens, I'm still not quite impressed with Arnell as an actor - he's a little stiff, like he's clearly trying to be what he's not. The Thea/Ollie warmth is almost all on Thea's side, in my opinion.

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#32 DWF

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:08 PM

View PostJosh, on 10 November 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

Quote

To me it looks like Laurel wants to rip off Oliver's clothes in just about every scene they're in, she's cleary attracted to him whcih is why she gave Tommy the brush off.

As gross as it sounds, at least based on chemistry, I'd find Oliver and Thea together more plausible than Oliver and Laurel.

That's just wrong on so many levels. :D But for right now at lest to me Thea doesn't have much of a purpose on the show unless she's just there to remind Oliie of his father and give him a reason to fight the good fight, For some reason I get the impression that Tommy is being paid to keep and eye on Oliver, I could be wrong though.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

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#33 Christopher

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:38 PM

His name is Stephen Amell, A-M-E-L-L, not Arnell. (Capitals used for clarity, not shouting.)

And I think his "stiffness" is because he's playing a damaged, hardened character who's supposed to be rather cold inside. I think he's doing a good job playing the different facets of the character, as I've mentioned.

Edited by Christopher, 10 November 2012 - 07:39 PM.

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#34 foborg

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:29 AM

Didn't need to get arrested to have an alibi when the hood appeared elsewhere. Could have just thrown that big party with lots of witnesses and do the same thing. False drama.
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#35 sierraleone

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:46 AM

^ He had already done that, more or less, when he threw that big bash that his sister showed up at, and then went and did the Hood business next door. Apparently he didn't think that was good enough.

I was watching these two episodes back to back on-line yesterday and figured out just before I started watching the next one that he possibly did that on purpose. It just seemed a little sloppy otherwise.
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#36 Christopher

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:28 AM

View Postfoborg, on 11 November 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Didn't need to get arrested to have an alibi when the hood appeared elsewhere. Could have just thrown that big party with lots of witnesses and do the same thing. False drama.

No, it was about more than that. Like he said, since the vigilante emerged soon after he returned, it was inevitable that people would think it might be him. So he had to get that idea out there publicly, get the whole city aware of the accusation, then publicly shoot it down and make a laughing stock of the people who accused him. That way, they'd be unwilling to suspect or accuse him again.

If he'd just thrown a random party and had the vigilante show up elsewhere, it wouldn't have been as effective. The cops wouldn't have actually been there watching him at the time it happened and wouldn't have been as convinced by his alibi. And the events wouldn't have gotten as much public attention (the nightly news doesn't cover spoiled billionaires' random parties as extensively as it covers their arrests on suspicion of murder), and thus the idea wouldn't have been as thoroughly brought to light and discredited in the public's mind, so even if the cops cleared him, other people might begin to suspect and do some digging that could be dangerous to him. As it is, he's gotten the idea out to everyone and discredited it for everyone all at once, and he's done so on his timetable.

It's really quite inspired. Usually superheroes just try to avoid suspicion and have to fumble to find solutions when suspicion falls on them. Oliver's actually been proactive about it and devised a master plan to deal with the inevitability right up front. It's the sort of thing Batman would do, but I don't think I've ever seen him do it.

Edited by Christopher, 11 November 2012 - 08:28 AM.

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#37 DWF

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:21 PM

But now Oliver owes his life to Det. Lance so I don't think Ollie made them out to be that much of a laughing stock.  The charges were dropped to be sure but Oliie owes him one.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#38 foborg

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:44 AM

Why just do it once? He could do it routinely, and kill the idea of him being the hood before it was even fully formed. If anyone that had the idea could easily find several occasions when Oliver had an alibi when the hood was spotted, then they wouldn't move ahead with an investigation. It was needlessly dramatic.
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#39 QueenTiye

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:52 AM

Among other things, he only just got a partner. Until recently, he couldn't do it at all.

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#40 NeuralClone

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:48 AM

View Postfoborg, on 12 November 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Why just do it once? He could do it routinely, and kill the idea of him being the hood before it was even fully formed. If anyone that had the idea could easily find several occasions when Oliver had an alibi when the hood was spotted, then they wouldn't move ahead with an investigation. It was needlessly dramatic.
Christopher pretty much said it best but I fail to see how it was "needlessly dramatic." And as QT said, he only just got a partner. This is the first time he could actually pull of his plan. Now that he has a partner, he may do exactly as you said and do something similar on multiple occasions. Regardless, unless the police suspect that the vigilante is working with someone else (no evidence of that to date), having the hood be spotted while Oliver was under heavy surveillance makes it physically impossible for him to be the vigilante.

They have numerous eye witnesses (including several police officers and detectives) placing Oliver at the party, reports of the hood being spotted across town at the same time as Oliver was at the party, and they have GPS tracking data from Oliver's anklet proving that he was in the mansion at the time the hood was spotted. There's really no way the police can reasonably suspect Oliver of being the vigilante now. I'm sure Laurel's father isn't still convinced but he no longer has any evidence that points to Oliver. He just has his gut feeling and a known vendetta against the Queen family. That isn't enough to continue counting Oliver as a suspect. If that's all he has and he continues to act on it, that's probably a good way to get himself fired.
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