65 replies to this topic

[Lin731]

I have seen this floating around facebook and wondering what if anything is known about the accuracy of this claim and if it is indeed true or false and if it's because Obama won or because of the fiscal cliff, the debt crisis in Europe etc...

[Rhea]

I couldn't find anything on the major news services - nothing to corroborate it except some survivalist boards, Ron Paul's board (or one of his fans?) and the Dubuque Town Crier (who said "thank you, Dumbo"). So I'd say it's another internet rumor with no basis in fact.

[Bobby]

They say that the shipping industry is a bell weather for the economy and a couple of months ago FedEx said that next year is supposed to be bad.

[BklnScott]

This is far right wing propaganda on the level of "Don't blame me, I voted for Romney" bumperstickers.  Of course at any given time since Bush tanked the economy (and BEFORE) you can find companies laying off employees.  The examples of layoffs I've seen bandied about on brietbart and glenn beck's website, et al, today are not exactly massive.  60 employees here, a couple hundred there.  

That's massive? "Massive" layoffs are when HUGE companies furlough large percentages of their workforce.  

When Pepsi laid off 8,700 workers earlier this year, pre-election, it still left them with a workforce numbering nearly 300,000.  The percentage of the cut was 2.9%.

Lockeheed Martin laid off 10,000 people earlier this year -- again, pre-election -- and that was 8.1% of its workforce.  That is a significant lay off, with 10,000 more planned if the sequester takes effect.

This is kind of like how Dick Morris predicted a 300 electoral vote landslide for Romney -- but then described Obama's 332 electoral vote win as "a squeaker."  

A lot of economists predicted that no matter who won the election, that president would benefit from a cyclical recovery that would be seen as a vindication of his policies over the other guy's, post hoc ergo propter hoc style.  Really, what business wants is for us to find a permanent solution to this fiscal cliff bullsh*t.  They will accept higher tax rates on top earners as long as they are bundled with deficit reduction packages.  And Obama's jobs bill would go a long way to making both Wall Street and more importantly Main Street confident going forward.

[Lin731]

I had goggled it and came across it being a Glenn Beck thing but I couldn't find anything indicating these layoffs occuring right after the election. Of course if if I could absolutely refute it, it would make no difference to these folks.

[Nonny]

How about this, is it true?  

http://www.examiner....cid=db_articles
Mitt Romney cuts off campaign workers credit cards, leaves workers stranded

Quote

Mitt Romney showed the size of his largess when after losing the election he cut off funding to the credit cards for thousands of his staffers, leaving some stranded and without a revenue source.
Many campaign workers found themselves in restaurants, or cabs with an anxious vendor waiting to be paid and the staffer's credit cards declined. Mitt Romney left them holding the bag, and he was no longer willing to foot the bill. Some workers found themselves stranded in strange cities across the nation, hundreds or thousands of miles from home, without a penny in their pocket and no plan of action to take next....

[Nonny]

At least the uncounted military ballots wasn't:
http://www.examiner....ed?CID=obinsite
Thousands demand recount after fake news said military ballots weren't counted

Quote

Thousands of Mitt Romney supporters have begun to clamor for a recount after reading that military absentee ballots were delivered one day late. The Duffel Blog reported on Wednesday that, “hundreds of thousands of military absentee ballots were delivered hours after the deadline for them to be counted, with preliminary counts showing that they would have overturned the vote in several states and brought a victory for Gov. Mitt Romney.” Many Romney supporters, after reading the story, began calling for a recount and sharing the article on their social networking sites, without realizing The Duffel Blog is a satire news source. That means the article that raised the ire of these Romney supporters is not real.
The Duffel Blog states their site is a faux news site openly and proudly in their “about us” section. The site claims that its existence serves to provide men and women of the military with a laugh. Writers for The Duffel Blog are all people military background. They bluntly state that no writing on the website could be regarded as truthful and that they do not intend to inflict emotional harm. Despite their wishes, many Mitt Romney supporters may be upset after they realize the reason for their outrage was all a joke....

[sierraleone]

^ The lack of concern in that story would seem to conflict with the concern for his staffers noted at the very end of this article:

http://www.nytimes.c....html?_r=1&

Quote

For now, Mr. Romney has shown up at his campaign headquarters every day since the election, where he seems preoccupied with the futures of members of his campaign staff. He arranged for them to receive severance pay through the end of November.

His No. 1 priority, so far: establishing a system to organize the 400 résumés of those staff members whose paychecks will run out in 21 days.

Though this article only mentions 400 resumes.... his 400 most important staffers possibly?

Edited by sierraleone, 10 November 2012 - 08:18 AM.

[DarthMarley]

So, Obama has won.

Does that mean people are still going to post mockery of their political opposites here now?

Is there still an official narrative of who is really in denial, who is really desparate, and what other people really mean when they say something?

I had seen a post taht was easy to dismiss. Few of the facilities cited were laying off workers as a direct result of the election.

There was a matter of sequestration layoff notices, and Obama not wanting the federally required notices to be sent out before the election.
There certainly will be cuts in military spending. That will mean layoffs.
There certainly will be a reshuffling of medical care offices, probably resulting in a "big box" scenario among surviving providers.

But really, if everyone is still going to repost HuffPo articles rather than get at real truths, this is a stale forum.

[Rhea]

Darth, the Examiner and the NY Times are not HuffPo, but reputable news sources. Why did you make the leap from real hard news sources to HuffPo, which wasn't quoted once in this thread?

[DarthMarley]

Hyperbole.
Actually, the lefty blog that had the top search results was ThingProg.

[Rhea]

^Which I've never heard of. And I was looking for hard news sources frankly, not blogs.

Darth, I really do understand what you're saying. But I hardly think asking for clarification about layoff rumors is taking a pot shot at Republicans, but asking a simple question.


As for the rumors about Romney cutting off his staff, I may disagree with his political beliefs but I can't see him doing that.

Edited by Rhea, 11 November 2012 - 06:21 PM.

[Cheile]

Rhea, on 11 November 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

Darth, the Examiner and the NY Times are not HuffPo, but reputable news sources. Why did you make the leap from real hard news sources to HuffPo, which wasn't quoted once in this thread?

plus HuffPost is also a reliable source.  you want unreliable, that'd be Fox.

[DarthMarley]

Cheile, on 13 November 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Rhea, on 11 November 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

Darth, the Examiner and the NY Times are not HuffPo, but reputable news sources. Why did you make the leap from real hard news sources to HuffPo, which wasn't quoted once in this thread?

plus HuffPost is also a reliable source.  you want unreliable, that'd be Fox.

FNC certainly isn't 100% reliable, and neither is any other source.
Perhaps you have a different definition of unreliable though.
We can stipulate taht FNC tilts hard to the right, in political terms.
But in terms of "FNC lies" no one can honestly make that case. They do issue retractions and corrections. They do make an honest effort to present alternative sides of stories.
So, I challenge the received wisdom of the left that FNC just cannot be trusted, or should be dismissed.

HufPo has plenty of opinion pieces which get facts wrong, or tilt on an ideological basis.

But in short, the campaign is over. If the "left" is going to continue campign tactics, like the effort to paint Papa John's founder as a fringe lunatic for describing how Obamacare is going to affect employment and pricing at the chain, then we are frankly going back to a Breitbartian "War it is" mentality.
I had hoped that the left woould be more gracious in electoral victory, but since I am not seeing that, I'll be putting on my rhetorical fatigues and march back into the trench.

[Nonny]

DarthMarley, on 15 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

... like the effort to paint Papa John's founder as a fringe lunatic for describing how Obamacare is going to affect employment and pricing at the chain, then we are frankly going back to a Breitbartian "War it is" mentality.

No, as a monster for cutting hours on the folks unfortunate enough to be in his employment.  And Breitbart lied by edit.  NPR demonstrated his methods by releasing full footage and showing how his cuts and recontexting distorted the actual events.

Quote

I had hoped that the left woould be more gracious in electoral victory, but since I am not seeing that, I'll be putting on my rhetorical fatigues and march back into the trench.

Speaking of rhetorical, I think it may be time for another EI muster.  Who else actually served in the military, besides me?  Any branch, any country.

[Cheile]

Nonny, on 15 November 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

DarthMarley, on 15 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

... like the effort to paint Papa John's founder as a fringe lunatic for describing how Obamacare is going to affect employment and pricing at the chain, then we are frankly going back to a Breitbartian "War it is" mentality.

No, as a monster for cutting hours on the folks unfortunate enough to be in his employment.  

THANK YOU, Nonny.  instead of feeling sorry for these *a$$h*le CEOs with their bloated bank accounts whining because they'd rather make their workers (who are actually the ones who MAKE their money) suffer instead of raising their prices by a measly 14 cents so that those same workers may actually enjoy the human right of accessible healthcare, try seeing them for what they are.  GREEDY.

[DarthMarley]

Nonny, on 15 November 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

DarthMarley, on 15 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

... like the effort to paint Papa John's founder as a fringe lunatic for describing how Obamacare is going to affect employment and pricing at the chain, then we are frankly going back to a Breitbartian "War it is" mentality.

No, as a monster for cutting hours on the folks unfortunate enough to be in his employment.  And Breitbart lied by edit.  NPR demonstrated his methods by releasing full footage and showing how his cuts and recontexting distorted the actual events.

Quote

I had hoped that the left woould be more gracious in electoral victory, but since I am not seeing that, I'll be putting on my rhetorical fatigues and march back into the trench.

Speaking of rhetorical, I think it may be time for another EI muster.  Who else actually served in the military, besides me?  Any branch, any country.

NPR (assulinmg you are reacting to the Sherrod case) pointed out an error.
The hated breitbart indicated that he only received the edited footage initially, which indeed was incendiary.

But you insist that this means he lied.
This is the problem going forward.
If we can't agree on what constitues a lie, then we might as well abandon judicial efforts at establishing criminal intent, since any liberal can assert intent of others at will.

Face it, you either understand the meaning of the word "lie" or you don't. You understand the difference between being wrong and deliberately making false claims or you don't.
And if you don't, then what is there you can credibly add to any policy debate?

People in charge of payrolls react to government regulations and their impact on profit.
Blaming somone reacting to Obamacare is silly if you are not willing to re-examine Obamacare and how it has unintended negative consequences like this.
It isn't as if people were not stating in advance this would happen.
Calling people monsters doens't lend credibility to any claim.

[Omega]

I maintain that spreading false information to people who trust you is morally wrong, whether you do it knowingly or not. Sufficienty advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

[DarthMarley]

And I don't agree.
In our law, we distinguish various levels of murder on down to involuntary manslaughter.
An accident is not the same as depraved indifference to human life.
Telling people I trust something that isn't true, but I do not know is untrue might mean I am incompetent at deciphering truth, but doesn't make me a liar.
Incompetence can be innocent, while actual malice requires knowledge that actions will likely cause harm.

[Lin731]

Part of the problem with these sites (and media in general these days) is everyone is so quick to slap a story out their without properly vetting it. Everyone wants to "break" the story first. In the case of the more slanted sites and media, I tend to wonder if it suits their slant, so they simply run with it. People remember the inital story, not the retraction or "clarification".

Edited by Lin731, 15 November 2012 - 08:03 PM.