65 replies to this topic

[Nonny]

DarthMarley, on 15 November 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Face it, you either understand the meaning of the word "lie" or you don't.

I know what the word means.  I also spotted the problem with the above statement immediately.    

[Kota]

...

Quote

Companies plan massive layoffs as Obamacare becomes reality:
http://www.washingto...s-obamacare-be/

Quote

NBC is currently laying off hundreds of employees. Their slew of broadcast  outlets are hurting. NBC, Syfy, Bravo, USA, Oxygen, E! and Style are all in the process of layoffs. No more “Attack of the Show”  no more “X Play” and other shows are also on the chopping block.

Here is just a PARTIAL list of companies laying off workers due to Obamacare, Obama taxes and Obama’s reelection:
Westinghouse -
Research in Motion Limited -
Lightyear Network Solutions -
• Providence Journal -
• Hawker Beechcraft -
• Boeing (30% of their management staff) -
• CVPH Medical Center -
• US Cellular -
• Momentive Performance Materials -
• Rocketdyne -
• Brake Parts -
• Vestas Wind Systems -
• Husqvarna -
• Center for Hospice New York -
• Bristol-Meyers -
• OCE North America -
• Darden Restaurants -
• United Blood Services Gulf

The Following is a PARTIAL list of companies that ARE CLOSING COMPLETELY due to the reelection:

• Caterpillar Inc. will close its plant in Owatonna Minn.
  
• Mount Pleasant’s Albrecht Sentry Foods
  
• The Target store at Manassas Mall Va.
  
• Millennium Academy in Wake Forest NC
  
• Target Closing Kissimmee FL Location
  
• The Andover Gift Shop in Andover MA
  
• Grand Union Family Markets Closing Storrs Location CT
  
• Movie Scene Milford Location NH
  
• Update: TE Connectivity Closing Greensboro Plant – 620 Layoffs Expected
  
• Gomer’s Fried Chicken in South Kansas City
  
• Kmart in Homer Glen
  
• Fresh Market on Pine Street in Burlington
  
• AGC Glass North America to permanently close its Blue Ridge Plant in Kingsport Tenn.
  
• The Target store at Platte and Academy in Colorado Springs
  
• The Roses store on Reynold Road in Winston-Salem NC
  
• Meanders Kitchen losing its West Seattle location at 6032 California Ave
  
• Bost Harley-Davidson at 46th Avenue North and Delaware Ave. in West Nashville TN
  
• Townsend Booksellers in Oakland
  
• The Kmart store in Parkway Plaza off University Drive in Durham NC – 79 Jobs Lost

http://www.thenation...s-of-socialism/

Today we find out 18,000 more people out of work with the closing of Hostess.

Quote

On Wednesday, Hostess said that if enough striking workers did not return to work by 5 p.m. EST (2200 GMT) the next day, the company would on Friday ask U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain in White Plains, New York, who oversees its Chapter 11 reorganization, for permission to shut down and sell assets.

"We simply do not have the financial resources to survive an ongoing national strike," Hostess Chief Executive Gregory Rayburn said in a statement.

http://www.huffingto..._n_2132706.html

[Balderdash]

^^^

The days of just saying anything are over.  In your "The Following is a PARTIAL list of companies that ARE CLOSING COMPLETELY due to the reelection:",
I clicked on the links for the first 2, I work for a living so I don't have time to check them all so I'm going to let the first 2 represent.

Link 1: http://www.kare11.co...t-move-100-jobs

Quote

"We value our employees' contributions, and these actions are not a reflection of them, but rather the result of a need to make our business more efficient and competitive," said John Carpenter, president of Caterpillar's Forest Products Division. "We understand these decisions will be difficult for the lives of many of our workers and their families, and we genuinely regret that."

Link 2: http://www.journalti...19bb2963f4.html

Quote

According to Schilz, the 5740 Washington Ave. Sentry has struggled since it first opened in April 2007, competing with the Pick ‘n Save, GFS Marketplace and Piggly Wiggly all located near the same Highway 20 and 31 intersection.

They closed because of the "reelection!?!?  No they did not.

Edited by Balderdash, 16 November 2012 - 01:58 PM.

[DarthMarley]

Nonny, on 16 November 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

DarthMarley, on 15 November 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Face it, you either understand the meaning of the word "lie" or you don't.

I know what the word means.  I also spotted the problem with the above statement immediately.

There is no problem with the above statement.
People who know what "lie" means, and try to convince others a lie has happened when it didn't are liars themselves.
Those who can't understand what constitutes a lie, and still sells the myth that a mistake is a lie are just committing a mistake themselves.
At least, until they are corrected. After that, they know.

[Balderdash]

DarthMarley, on 16 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Nonny, on 16 November 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

DarthMarley, on 15 November 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Face it, you either understand the meaning of the word "lie" or you don't.

I know what the word means.  I also spotted the problem with the above statement immediately.

There is no problem with the above statement.
People who know what "lie" means, and try to convince others a lie has happened when it didn't are liars themselves.
Those who can't understand what constitutes a lie, and still sells the myth that a mistake is a lie are just committing a mistake themselves.
At least, until they are corrected. After that, they know.

Breitbart is known for his "mistakes."  I didn't just fall off the truck and neither did Nonny.  But I'm sure that you will try to
make it our problem but it won't work on me.  Breitbart wrote the book on "mistakes" or as I like to call it, lies, lying,
propaganda, horse poo and so on and so forth.

[Nonny]

DarthMarley, on 16 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Nonny, on 16 November 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

DarthMarley, on 15 November 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Face it, you either understand the meaning of the word "lie" or you don't.

I know what the word means.  I also spotted the problem with the above statement immediately.

There is no problem with the above statement.

Yes, there is.

[DarthMarley]

Balderdash, on 16 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

^^^

The days of just saying anything are over.  In your "The Following is a PARTIAL list of companies that ARE CLOSING COMPLETELY due to the reelection:",
I clicked on the links for the first 2, I work for a living so I don't have time to check them all so I'm going to let the first 2 represent.

Link 1: http://www.kare11.co...t-move-100-jobs

Quote

"We value our employees' contributions, and these actions are not a reflection of them, but rather the result of a need to make our business more efficient and competitive," said John Carpenter, president of Caterpillar's Forest Products Division. "We understand these decisions will be difficult for the lives of many of our workers and their families, and we genuinely regret that."

Link 2: http://www.journalti...19bb2963f4.html

Quote

According to Schilz, the 5740 Washington Ave. Sentry has struggled since it first opened in April 2007, competing with the Pick ‘n Save, GFS Marketplace and Piggly Wiggly all located near the same Highway 20 and 31 intersection.

They closed because of the "reelection!?!?  No they did not.

If only the days of saying anything were indeed over. The world would be a better place, and no one would have voted for Obama.

What is it that you are saying?

Someone posts a quote that says companies are closing completely. Because of the election.But that need not mean they are closing soly because of the election.
A company that started in 2007 and finds now that it cannot meet expectations under the current regulatory environment is doing just taht.
Pointing to poor performance or struggle in the marketplace does not argue that "it isn't because of the election!" in any way.
Are there other factors? Sure. And things are tough all over.
But like Obama insisting to a small business owner who was closing her business because of the regulatory demands of PP/ACA to her gface in a town hall meeting, insisting that the elction has no negative economic consequences is the height of denial.
Think about this; Obama was told by a business owner that this was the case for her own business, and he stammered and said "No it isn't!" as if he were John Cleese.
Just saying anything, like "No it isn't" doesn't cut it anymore.
We get to see where the lead of people who think this passes for logic and reasoning will take us. That is how it works.

[Nonny]

The good old days for some were the days when employers could work their employees literally to death and suffer no consequences at all.  No safety regs, no time limits, no living wage.  Have I mentioned my great- or great great grandfather lately?  The one who was brought home from the mine in pieces?

[Balderdash]

DarthMarley, on 16 November 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Balderdash, on 16 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

^^^

The days of just saying anything are over.  In your "The Following is a PARTIAL list of companies that ARE CLOSING COMPLETELY due to the reelection:",
I clicked on the links for the first 2, I work for a living so I don't have time to check them all so I'm going to let the first 2 represent.

Link 1: http://www.kare11.co...t-move-100-jobs

Quote

"We value our employees' contributions, and these actions are not a reflection of them, but rather the result of a need to make our business more efficient and competitive," said John Carpenter, president of Caterpillar's Forest Products Division. "We understand these decisions will be difficult for the lives of many of our workers and their families, and we genuinely regret that."

Link 2: http://www.journalti...19bb2963f4.html

Quote

According to Schilz, the 5740 Washington Ave. Sentry has struggled since it first opened in April 2007, competing with the Pick ‘n Save, GFS Marketplace and Piggly Wiggly all located near the same Highway 20 and 31 intersection.

They closed because of the "reelection!?!?  No they did not.

If only the days of saying anything were indeed over. The world would be a better place, and no one would have voted for Obama.

What is it that you are saying?

Someone posts a quote that says companies are closing completely. Because of the election.But that need not mean they are closing soly because of the election.
A company that started in 2007 and finds now that it cannot meet expectations under the current regulatory environment is doing just taht.
Pointing to poor performance or struggle in the marketplace does not argue that "it isn't because of the election!" in any way.
Are there other factors? Sure. And things are tough all over.
But like Obama insisting to a small business owner who was closing her business because of the regulatory demands of PP/ACA to her gface in a town hall meeting, insisting that the elction has no negative economic consequences is the height of denial.
Think about this; Obama was told by a business owner that this was the case for her own business, and he stammered and said "No it isn't!" as if he were John Cleese.
Just saying anything, like "No it isn't" doesn't cut it anymore.
We get to see where the lead of people who think this passes for logic and reasoning will take us. That is how it works.

Sheesh, what a pretzel.  I have really good comprehension skills and the companies didn't close or lay anyone off BECAUSE OF THE ELECTION, no matter how you try to "present it'"

[Lin731]

This is the problem in a "global economy" aka...screw the workers free-for-all. We can't compete with 3 bucks a day. While I can understand companies cost cutting, it just strikes me that there is A LOT of "poor mouthing" from very profitable companies too. Oh we're sorry we have to cut your pay and benefits (or for places like walmart and most other retailers) keep you just below having to offer you any benefits and pay you crap wages to boot. Usually while they scarifice nothing themselves. When companies giver their management team bonues while they cut worker wages, bennies and jobs...well I know Bullshite when I step in it.

Some of the companies on this list are victims of their own incompetent management (Kmart springs to mind). Some on the list aren't US companies at all. Some (that list individual stores) really? We're talking about individual stores in a retail chain? The SavAlot the next town over "closed" it reopened 2 towns away because they we sitting smack in the middle of Walmart, Meijers, Kroger, Kmart etc....Gee wonder why they closed. Catepilar was already planning to layoff workers BEFORE the election (I went to their website press releases. Does healthcare reform play into it for some of these companies...yep, I'd think so but many on the list we already planning layoffs before the election, struggling for years, poorly run (in some cases) and many have been hurt by the recession in Europe (catepillar being one of them).

[DarthMarley]

Alright, here is one that is irrefutable.
I dare you to spin it some other way.

http://phx.corporate...9222&highlight=

Quote

Stryker Corporation (NYSE:SYK) announced its intention to implement focused workforce reductions of approximately 5% of its global workforce and other restructuring activities that are anticipated to reduce annual pre-tax operating costs by over $100 million beginning in 2013.  The targeted reductions and other restructuring activities are being initiated to provide efficiencies and realign resources in advance of the new Medical Device Excise Tax scheduled to begin in 2013

The claim that Obamacare is not costing jobs is an outright lie, and since the days of saying anything and getting away with it are supposed to be over, I will directly call anyone who makes the claim that PP/ACA is not causing workfiorce reductions a liar. If people are not willing to be reasonable, then politeness can go out the window too.

[Balderdash]

DarthMarley, on 16 November 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Alright, here is one that is irrefutable.
I dare you to spin it some other way.

http://phx.corporate...9222&highlight=

Quote

Stryker Corporation (NYSE:SYK) announced its intention to implement focused workforce reductions of approximately 5% of its global workforce and other restructuring activities that are anticipated to reduce annual pre-tax operating costs by over $100 million beginning in 2013.  The targeted reductions and other restructuring activities are being initiated to provide efficiencies and realign resources in advance of the new Medical Device Excise Tax scheduled to begin in 2013

The claim that Obamacare is not costing jobs is an outright lie, and since the days of saying anything and getting away with it are supposed to be over, I will directly call anyone who makes the claim that PP/ACA is not causing workfiorce reductions a liar. If people are not willing to be reasonable, then politeness can go out the window too.

I'm not going to get into a long drawn out back and forth.  You got pissed because I wasn't going to get sucked in by bogus claims by the right about jobs being lost because of the election.  I haven't said a word about Obamacare, although if jobs are lost because of it, it's not Obama's fault.  It's the fault of the greedy assholes and their shareholders.  So, don't threaten me.

[Nonny]

DarthMarley, on 16 November 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Alright, here is one that is irrefutable.
I dare you to spin it some other way.

http://phx.corporate...9222&highlight=

Quote

Stryker Corporation (NYSE:SYK) announced its intention to implement focused workforce reductions of approximately 5% of its global workforce and other restructuring activities that are anticipated to reduce annual pre-tax operating costs by over $100 million beginning in 2013.  The targeted reductions and other restructuring activities are being initiated to provide efficiencies and realign resources in advance of the new Medical Device Excise Tax scheduled to begin in 2013

The claim that Obamacare is not costing jobs is an outright lie, and since the days of saying anything and getting away with it are supposed to be over, I will directly call anyone who makes the claim that PP/ACA is not causing workfiorce reductions a liar. If people are not willing to be reasonable, then politeness can go out the window too.

Obamacare is not costing jobs, nor is it causing workforce reductions.  Fatcat executive privilege is.

[Kota]

Balderdash, on 17 November 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

DarthMarley, on 16 November 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Alright, here is one that is irrefutable.
I dare you to spin it some other way.

http://phx.corporate...9222&highlight=

Quote

Stryker Corporation (NYSE:SYK) announced its intention to implement focused workforce reductions of approximately 5% of its global workforce and other restructuring activities that are anticipated to reduce annual pre-tax operating costs by over $100 million beginning in 2013.  The targeted reductions and other restructuring activities are being initiated to provide efficiencies and realign resources in advance of the new Medical Device Excise Tax scheduled to begin in 2013

The claim that Obamacare is not costing jobs is an outright lie, and since the days of saying anything and getting away with it are supposed to be over, I will directly call anyone who makes the claim that PP/ACA is not causing workfiorce reductions a liar. If people are not willing to be reasonable, then politeness can go out the window too.

I'm not going to get into a long drawn out back and forth.  You got pissed because I wasn't going to get sucked in by bogus claims by the right about jobs being lost because of the election.  I haven't said a word about Obamacare, although if jobs are lost because of it, it's not Obama's fault.  It's the fault of the greedy assholes and their shareholders.  So, don't threaten me.

Darth posted an excellent link, this company was included in my post - first link.
So don't be getting all pissed off at him because you failed to click on my link and went directly to where you could get into a pissing match.



I didn't write the article stating the jobs were lost due to the election, but the common theme is that jobs were lost during the Obama administration. He inherited a mess and made it worst, companies that were all ready in trouble no doubt had it tough for numerous reasons and people lost jobs on Obama's watch. And with Obamacare coming in the near future, many companies know they don't stand a chance in the new world created by Obama and are dumping employees, cutting wages now in preparation of it. Companies are in business to make a profit and if they are not, why bother? But to call them greedy assholes, its easy to make a silly blanket statement such at that.

[cl05]

I can't say for sure that all those on the list are greedy bastards who will lay off a loyal employee rather than have it affect their company bonus. But for damn sure there are a few in there.

Blame Obamacare for everything if it will help me in the end is their mantra. I wonder what the rest of the world thinks about the U.S. and Obama trying to make healthcare a right, not a burden. Most of the world has universal health care for their citizens.

[Kota]

http://www.syracuse....275_worldw.html

Quote

Welch Allyn job cuts are related to new tax mandated by health care law


The majority of the job losses will come from Beaverton, Oregon, where Welch Allyn plans to close a factory. About 160 workers will lose their jobs when the factory that makes wireless portable patient monitors closes, Meyer said.

~~

The uncertainty surrounding the future of the Obama health care package is creating turmoil in the domestic market, Meyer said. Hospitals and doctor offices aren't investing in new equipment until they see how the health care issues will play out, Meyer said.

Welch Allyn and other medical device makers face a new federal tax hike come January when a new 2.3 percent tax on sales of medical devices called for under the Affordable Care Act takes effect, he said.

[BklnScott]

With apologies to Mandy Patinkin and William Goldman: I do not think this link proves what you think it proves, Kota.

Quote

The uncertainty surrounding the future of the Obama health care package is creating turmoil in the domestic market, Meyer said.

The article was published in September, so presumably the "uncertainty surrounding the future of the Obama healthcare package" that created "turmoil in the market" was settled by the election -- not caused by it.  

[Kota]

http://www.reuters.c...042679320091020

Quote

Boston Scientific Corp (BSX.N) warned on Tuesday that a proposed tax in the U.S. health care reform bill that cleared the Senate Finance Committee last week could have serious consequences for the company, including job losses.

~~

Elliott said that the company's tax liability would be doubled, adding $150 million to $200 million a year, and it would be forced to make substantial cuts in research and development spending, which could result in 1,000 to 2,000 jobs being lost at Boston Scientific.

[Kota]

http://www.suntimes....ompany-per.html

Quote

Abbott Laboratories said Wednesday it would eliminate 1,900 employees — including 1,000 in Lake County (Illinois)— in marketing and manufacturing positions over the next five years.

--
Abbott blamed the cuts on new fees and pricing pressures associated with the health care reform law and a “challenging regulatory environment” at the Food and Drug Administration, which approves new drugs.

[BklnScott]

^^^Those layoffs were a) nearly 2 years ago and b) were really about the state of Abbott's pipeline (poor) as it approaches a 2016 patent cliff on its blockbuster drug Humira.  As indicated by your article:

Quote

Abbott has steadily increased its revenue year after year, even as most of its pharmaceutical peers have watched sales fall as patents on blockbuster drugs expire. And while the company’s multibillion dollar, anti-inflammatory drug Humira continued to deliver in the latest quarter, Abbott has stumbled in efforts to develop new therapies.

2016 will be a huge "patent cliff" year for the industry -- not just for Abbott, but for Pfizer and other companies as well.  Some are better situated than others to weather their top earners going off-patent.  The judgment of Wall Street at the moment is that Abbott is not particularly well situated, but that's not about Obamacare.  It's about their pipeline.  

Or do you want to argue that the FDA puts undue regulatory burden on Pharma to make sure their new drug development process produces SAFE and EFFICACIOUS products?

Try again.