Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Arrow: Legacies

Arrow

  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 NeuralClone

NeuralClone
  • Islander
  • 23,092 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:36 PM

Quote

A gang of bank robbers, dubbed The Royal Flush Gang, hits a local bank and seriously wounds an off-duty police officer during a heist. Diggle tells Oliver he needs to deviate from his father’s list and start helping the citizens of Starling City. Meanwhile, Tommy asks Thea for relationship advice, but things get awkward when she realizes he was asking about Laurel. Moira confronts Oliver about all of his recent disappearances in the middle of family functions.

"My sexuality's not the most interesting thing about me."
— Cosima Niehaus, Orphan Black, "Governed By Sound Reason and True Religion"

#2 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,921 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:37 PM

More and more, I'm thinking that Diggle is the real hero of this show.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#3 NeuralClone

NeuralClone
  • Islander
  • 23,092 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

Yeah, I agree. I really like Diggle. Oliver has the right idea for the most part but I think adding Diggle to the team was a smart move. I think he'll help keep Oliver grounded and give him some much needed perspective. The mission is important but that isn't all there is.
"My sexuality's not the most interesting thing about me."
— Cosima Niehaus, Orphan Black, "Governed By Sound Reason and True Religion"

#4 Lambsilencer

Lambsilencer

    Shh... the lambs are sleeping...

  • Islander
  • 6,686 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:08 PM

Yes, Diggle is a good choice for this. I was fearing that they would move Thea in that spot, being Oliver's moral center, based on the talks they keep having. But she's much too young and immature yet to have that role, which is also the reason that she can't be the heroic Speedy, yet.

But I think she'll figure out her brother's secret sooner rather than later.

Greets
Lambsilencer

#5 Virgil Vox

Virgil Vox
  • Moderator
  • 5,392 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:54 PM

I also like Diggle acting as the moral compass for Oliver. I don't think Oliver is supposed to be a hero yet. At least not what we think of as a hero, generally. Yes he has the costume and is taking down bad guys for the greater good of the city, but he's also on a dark path. I think his arc is to become a full fledged hero who sees beyond just taking down the people on the list.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#6 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,921 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:19 PM

Another solid one. Interesting that the story of Ollie learning to look beyond the list in the present is juxtaposed with the story of how he discovered the list in the past. And I wonder just how many pages he burned before that happened -- how many names he doesn't know about. Was the name Moira Queen on one of them?

It's also interesting that the differences between Oliver's and Diggle's views are multidimensional. On the one hand, Dig urges Ollie to look past his narrow focus on the list and help deal with crime on a more everyday level. That makes him seem like the more compassionate one. Yet when Ollie learns that Reston is a victim of his father, he becomes the one offering compassion and help while Dig's writing him off as a lost cause.

When Dig sprung the surprise on Ollie and passed him off as a benefactor to the injured cop's wife, I love how effortlessly Ollie fell into playing along, not even needing a moment to react or adjust. It makes sense, since he's always wearing a mask in public, and is very practiced at putting forth whatever deception suits him at a given moment.

They've got to stop killing off the guest supervillains, though, otherwise they may run out of them. Then again, the Royal Flush Gang's gone through many changes in membership in the comics.

Oh, hey, hold on -- despite what the episode description claimed, we can't really call these guys the Royal Flush Gang, because there's no Ten. There are only four members, and it takes five cards to make a royal flush. They're just four cards. Unless their getaway van had a 10 on it that I missed.

I liked the stuff with Ollie and Moira trying to mend their relationship. It's bittersweet, though, knowing that they're secretly on opposite sides.

Oh, yeah, and there was some soap-opera stuff with Laurel and Tommy and Thea. This show has yet to give me any reason to give a damn about Tommy Merlyn. There's so much more interesting stuff going on!

Edited by Christopher, 14 November 2012 - 09:33 PM.

"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#7 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:15 PM

View PostChristopher, on 14 November 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Another solid one. Interesting that the story of Ollie learning to look beyond the list in the present is juxtaposed with the story of how he discovered the list in the past. And I wonder just how many pages he burned before that happened -- how many names he doesn't know about. Was the name Moira Queen on one of them?


Glad I wasn't the only one wondering that question.

I would've preferred the royal flush gang not be associated with Queen Industries in any way, rather then making them victims of "the list".

The rest of the story was so so...although I did like Moira's comments to Ollie about why he even bothered coming home. He can't just up and disappear for no reason and expect everyone to be cool with it.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#8 NeuralClone

NeuralClone
  • Islander
  • 23,092 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:33 PM

View PostChristopher, on 14 November 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Oh, hey, hold on -- despite what the episode description claimed, we can't really call these guys the Royal Flush Gang, because there's no Ten. There are only four members, and it takes five cards to make a royal flush. They're just four cards. Unless their getaway van had a 10 on it that I missed.
Hmm, that's true. Perhaps they had a fifth member at one point? I suppose the van could have had a 10 on it somewhere too. But I didn't see one either.

Quote

This show has yet to give me any reason to give a damn about Tommy Merlyn. There's so much more interesting stuff going on!
Tommy Merlyn does become an archenemy of the Green Arrow in the comic but I think if they're planning to do that in the show they're a long ways away from it. Unless he's secretly a master archer and is actually working against Oliver, which seems unlikely at this stage (other than the whole Laurel thing).
"My sexuality's not the most interesting thing about me."
— Cosima Niehaus, Orphan Black, "Governed By Sound Reason and True Religion"

#9 Josh

Josh

    He stares...

  • Islander
  • 13,774 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:40 PM

Every time Tommy has a scene (especially with Laurel), I go off and do something else. That's probably not the sign of a gripping character. ;) It's not hurting the show too badly because there's so much interesting stuff going on but right now, he's a main character who would be better off as a recurring one. I'm also worried that Thea is getting spun into his orbit and it's not a great sign that she has better chemistry with Tommy than Laurel does. Does Laurel have chemistry with anyone?.

I liked this episode, otherwise. The show is consistently entertaining. I also vote for more Moira/Oliver scenes.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#10 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:33 AM

I also was wondering about the burned pages.  Was that Kyle Schmid as one of the bad guys?  I love Diggle.  IMO any episode is weakened by the absence of Paul Blackthorne.:/
Posted Image

#11 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:34 AM

I think Laurel and Oliver have outstanding chemistry.  Unfortunately however, the actress' BEST screen chemistry is with the actor who plays her father.    *ick*

The more Speedy the better I like it.
Posted Image

#12 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,921 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:06 AM

View PostBad Wolf, on 15 November 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

Was that Kyle Schmid as one of the bad guys?

That was the name of the actor who played Ace, yes. The familiar faces to me, however, were Warren Christie (Hicks from Alphas) as the too-perfect guy Ollie and Tommy were jealous of (I hardly recognized him with longer hair), Law and Order: CI's Jamey Sheridan as Robert Queen, and Currie Graham (who's been in a bunch of things but whom I first noticed in Stargate: The Ark of Truth) as King.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#13 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:04 AM

Woah, that was Warren Christie?    And I watch Alphas and I STILL didn't recognize him!  Or Jamey Sheridan.   Hmmmm.    I need to pay better attention.  Kyle has been on my radar for awhile.  Right now he's on Copper and kicking some ass.  He was also prominent in last season of Syfy's Being Human.   :love:
Posted Image

#14 Lambsilencer

Lambsilencer

    Shh... the lambs are sleeping...

  • Islander
  • 6,686 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:03 PM

I had the same problem recognizing Warren Christie. He did look pretty different here.

Kyle Schmid was also the male, vampiric male lead alongside Christina Cox on "Blood Ties" which ran on Lifetime a few years back. That's where I remember him from most. But I knew him before that.

I sure hope they won't make Tommy and Thea an item, because, well, she's just way too young for him. And also because I am with Christopher in thinking that Tommy is an incredibly dull character that doesn't really serve a purpose on the show. Thea, on the other hand, is growing into a more interesting character by the week. But, to be fair, I had my problems buying her apologetic good-girl act at the end. Thea is more feisty than that. It came off as a bit too sweet for her character.

Speaking of serving a purpose, I think the show would be benefitting from relying a bit less on the flashbacks. The scenes with Oliver hallucinating his father and having those talks didn't do much for me, and what he learned, he could have figured out in the present as convincingly as well. The only real necessity of a flashback was the final scene with the discovery of the list.

Greets
Lambsilencer

#15 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,921 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

I think Tommy does serve a purpose inasmuch as he embodies Oliver's old life and identity, the person he isn't anymore but must pretend to be. But the romance stuff? Well, the obvious purpose there is to cater to the CW's target audience that craves romantic plotlines, but it doesn't fit particularly well into the rest of the show. It feels kind of tacked on out of the obligation to follow a formula, much like the insistence on having party scenes in every episode and having Ollie build a nightclub as a cover so they can do product placement for pop albums.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#16 Lambsilencer

Lambsilencer

    Shh... the lambs are sleeping...

  • Islander
  • 6,686 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:48 PM

^^ Yes, exactly. It also feels sometimes strange that Thea is getting to be quite responsible girl, whereas other times she acts like a typical CW rich girl with little substance. It's like for some of the scenes, the CW mandate of how high school girls should be portrayed on the network takes over.

Same goes for "Beauty & The Beast", BTW. The show has gotten better every week since the barely mediocre pilot, but it still feels like the show is held back due to too many conventions it has to fulfill to earn its keep on the CW.

As for Tommy, I get what you mean, but I don't think we actually need him to see that. Oliver still pretty much behaves in his old ways when being around his rich friends to save face. So I get how he was before the island. I don't need Tommy for that. And that he's there to be the man Laurel has to get over to be with Oliver, or for Oliver to have an obstacle in that regard, is exactly the kind of soap-opera nonsense I definitely don't need in this show.

But just to be clear, I'm complaining about tidbits, here. The show is great, no doubt about it.

#17 Josh

Josh

    He stares...

  • Islander
  • 13,774 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:07 PM

View PostChristopher, on 15 November 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

I think Tommy does serve a purpose inasmuch as he embodies Oliver's old life and identity, the person he isn't anymore but must pretend to be.

In theory. In reality, the two haven't had enough scenes together for me to note a contrast. I would find it interesting if the writing team explored Ollie and Tommy's relationship a bit more, such as it is but at least for now, the latter is only around to satisfy that CW demographic.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#18 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,921 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:15 PM

Diggle whispering in Ollie's ear to let him know about crimes in progress, and Ollie then making lame excuses to his family, reminded me of something, and it's only just struck me what it is:

"It's the Batphone, sir."
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#19 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

Digge is acting more like a mentor than a sidekick and Thea is his conscience, but in this one Ollie really felt like a lost soul in a way like he died on the island. Tommy, Ollie and Laurel are forming a romantic triangle of sorts, Tommy wants Laurel but she wants Ollie so it's not too impossible to imagine Tommy turning to the dark side in the future.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#20 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:52 PM

Well the point of the flashbacks was to explain Ollie's relative sympathy for how the Royal Flush Gang became the Royal Flush Gang and to reflect upon the impact our fathers have on us...to a point, at which we need to take responsibility for our lives.   Hence the title of the episode.
Posted Image



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Arrow

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users