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San Antonio Movie Theatre Mass Shooting

Texas Shooting averted 2012

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#1 Captain Jack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:38 AM

...Prevented.

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Man Attempts To Open Fire On Crowd At Movie Theater, Armed Off-Duty Sergeant Drops Him

The Bexar County Sheriff’s Office says the off-duty sergeant, who was working security, heard the gunshots and came running. She saw the gunman coming out of the men’s restroom. The Sheriff’s Office says the gunman did not shoot at her, but his gun was drawn so she opened fire.

That off-duty sergeant, identified as Lisa Castellano, fired four times, wounding the gunman. Only one other person was wounded, a 49-year-old man inside the theater, who was hit by one of the gunman’s shots. Both are expected to recover.


Investigators say about 30 rounds were fired. It’s unclear why the break-up with his girlfriend caused the man to go after his co-workers. Investigators haven’t ruled out a love-triangle involving someone else at the restaurant.


With one shot, an off-duty sergeant took down a gunman who attempted to opened fire at a crowded movie theater lobby during a late night showing of “The Hobbit” in San Antonio, 1200 WOAI news reports.



More here: http://www.theblaze....ith-one-bullet/

So, another kid tried to kill a bunch of people. Again, this isn't a gun issue, there is something wrong with America's younger generation. So far, nearly all of 2012's shootings and attempted shootings have involved gunmen in their late teens to late twnties. For me, this raises a red flag.

The story also shows that these thugs are cowards. As soon as they realize they'll be met with resistance, they run, just like this guy did. Gun-free zones do NOT work. Law-abiding responsible citizens with guns, does.

My only regret is that the off-duty officer didn't send the little dirtbag to his maker.
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#2 SparkyCola

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:40 AM

Meanwhile, in the UK, the number of school shootings we've had since the Dunblane Massacre caused us to legislate tight gun controls (in 1996) is.... Zero.

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#3 Niko

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

Likewise Australia.

http://www.slate.com..._provide_a.html

Quoting facts from that article:

10 mass shootings in the decade before the Tasmania massacre.  Zero since it prompted tighter gun laws.
59% drop in homicide by gun violence, overall.  *NO* corresponding rise in homicides by other means.
- Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.    (Matthew 25:40)

- Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart.  (Proverbs 3:3)

#4 Balthamos

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

Chinese gun massacre prevented..

..by potential gunman not owning gun.

#5 BklnScott

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:26 AM

So a security guard performed her function - admirably - and this should lead us to conclude that gun control doesn't work and the only solution to gun violence is EVERYBODY packs heat. Non-sequitur.  

Nobody is saying that law enforcement and security personnel should relinquish their firearms.  We're saying military grade weapons should be reserved for the military and that if they were, casualty rates would drop.  No civilian needs or should have the ability to spray dozens of bullets at the click of a trigger.  

Note: that link is to the website of noted conspiracy theorist, con-artist and all around crazy person Glenn Beck.  That website is filled with ads for various survivalist snake oil products.  "Prepare for the coming New World Order by stocking up on guns, ammo and MREs!  Y'all are gonna need 'em when the black helicopters come!"

Theblaze has zero credibility on this issue.  (Not sure there's an issue it does have credibility on--it's just another World News Daily monetized to keep Glenn Beck's bank accounts flush.)

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#6 Nonny

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:46 PM

http://www.dailykos....school-massacre
If only armed guards would stop a school massacre ...

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With the NRA today mainstreaming idiotic calls to further militarize schools, it bears asking whether armed guards really do prevent such massacres.
Columbine High School
... Schools are big places. That armed guard can't be everywhere at once. And given officer Gardner was targeted as soon as he approached the school, he could've been executed first had he been at his regular spot in the cafeteria.
And then the shooters would've had an extra gun to work with.
Fort Hood Shooting
I think they have plenty of armed guards at military bases. In fact, I'm pretty sure they do.
Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech, like all major universities, has its own police department. Perhaps they have guns. But with 126 buildings over 2,600 acres, and nearly 30,000 students and staff, how do you stop a massacre without posting armed guards outside of every building, outside every classroom?...
At the exact same moment that the NRA president was displaying his crazy to the world, a gunman in Pennsylvania killed three people and wounded three state troopers.
Posted ImageTo be fair to the NRA, YOU try to hold a press conference that doesn't coincide with a gun killing in America. It ain't easy.
@jamisonfoser via Echofon


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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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#7 Omega

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

More guns might mitigate the damage from these shooters. Or they might make things worse.

No access to large-capacity semiautomatic magazines might mitigate the damage. But probably not.

There are only two ways to stop this kind of thing: identify crazy people and stop them from getting guns, or stop everyone from getting guns. There is no other solution.

#8 FarscapeOne

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:12 PM

I agree that weapons like machine guns shouldn't be able to be bought at a gun store.  And people don't really need anything other than a handgun or shotgun for home protection and for farmers for wolves and such.

But guess what?  The black market exists, and if someone is determined enough, they'll find a way to purchase a machine gun.

And making laws that restrict the amount of weapons and ammo you can buy?  People already have found a way around that... remember the Aurora guy?  Multiple stores and online purchases, all perfectly legal.  He just spread his purchases.

I read an article somewhere that said the NRA is just trying to promote a kind of dystopian world where everyone is packing heat.  Guess what?  We already ARE in a dystopian world where anyone is a potential madman, and the only way to increase your odds of surviving is having a weapon.  I carry a knife on me at all times, and when I get the money together, I am getting a gun.  I'm making damn sure I can defend myself and my wife, and she is in complete support of having a gun handy in case I am not home because I tend to work overnight shifts.  I'm not leaving my wife's protection to some hack security guard in an apartment complex.

#9 Nonny

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

A lot of folks confuse "crazy" with "evil."  Speaking as a mentally disabled person, I wish they'd get over that.
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#10 Nonny

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:15 PM

http://www.dailykos....narmed-citizens
Tucson: the thing that stopped a bad guy with a gun was having to reload around unarmed citizens

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... Jared Loughner's rampage in Tucson was stopped when he had to pause to reload. Brave UNARMED citizens used that window of opportunity to pounce on him....

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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#11 FarscapeOne

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:08 PM

I am glad that they were able to stop the guy.  but two things.

First, they were lucky enough that the shooter had only one gun.  There have been several cases where someone going on a spree killing had more than one gun already loaded, so there would be no reload time.

Second, the other people were lucky enough that there was some people actually brave enough to take that window of opportunity.  Not many people, in the heat of the moment like that, would do such a thing.  Typically, people would either run, hide, or protect their loved ones before actually heading TOWARD the weapons fire, reloading or not, to disarm them.

That relies too much on other people to do something, and I don't rely or trust humans in general because they can't be relied upon or trusted.  As far as I'm concerned, having a gun on me gives me better odds than hoping on the chance that a shooter HAS to reload because they only have that one gun on them, that I'm close enough to even get my hands on him to stop, or that other people MAY act because they are not hiding, ran off, or protecting someone else.

#12 Niko

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:36 PM

View PostFarscapeOne, on 21 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

But guess what?  The black market exists, and if someone is determined enough, they'll find a way to purchase a machine gun.
Someone might go through back alleys to get a gun, so hey, let's just make it easy?  *IF* someone is determined enough, they'll find a way to purchase a gun, so let's not bother weeding out the ones who AREN'T "determined enough"?  Let's not put any roadblocks in the way of would-be killers at all.  (Until they show up on our doorstep firing hundreds of bullets a minute at the first person they see, of course.  That makes so much more sense.)

I would also be curious to know who the NRA thinks is going to pay for these security guards in every school?  With their Republican allies stripping money from schools every sliver of a chance they get, where exactly are schools are going to get the money for this?   You want any tom, dick, or harry to be able to buy a gun - *you* pay the additional taxes to lock down our schools and keep our children safe from your fellow gun owners.   (Who are, after all, humans who can't be relied upon or trusted.)
- Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.    (Matthew 25:40)

- Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart.  (Proverbs 3:3)

#13 SparkyCola

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:11 AM

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Someone might go through back alleys to get a gun, so hey, let's just make it easy?

Precisely. It is a myth that if you restrict guns, then you leave guns in the hands of criminals. Restricting guns for everyone makes it hard for everyone.

In the UK only 8% of all our homicides are due to guns.

Harvard has done studies to show that put simply, Where there are more guns there is more homicide

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Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries.  Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

But you know what, criminals aren't actually that interested in shooting school children. That oddity comes out of the general populace. So if the general populace has free and easy access to guns - then you either accept that there will be school and cinema massacres, or you change your mind about gun control and sooner rather than later and try to make it so that the oddballs of society don't have access to weaponry. Comes down to what is more important to you I guess.

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#14 BklnScott

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:57 AM

The people I personally know who go through their lives believing that the Saturday Night Special in their purse or the knife under their pillow is all that stands between them and a horrible death have one thing in common: they are living their lives terribly afraid of suffering a fate that is probably way less likely to happen than winning the lottery.  

And that is such a sad way to live life.  

(And those are exactly the sorts of people who are most likely to - in a moment of panic - shoot their spouse or their kid coming home late.)

It reminds me of all the people who argued that we should chuck the constitution after 9/11 to protect ourselves from "the terrorists" not realizing that if we do, they've already won.  (And of course, we DID chuck the constitution with the Patriot Act and Gitmo.)  It's the same here.  If we go through our lives constantly worried that someone is about to open fire on us or invade our homes, then the bad guys don't need to actually do those things, because we are already living our lives as though they had!  

Do people realize that we are less likely to die from violent crime than at any time in American history?

Several times in recent years, New York City has found itself in the aftermath of extraordinary events - 9/11, the black out, Sandy - and I'm here to tell you: the ideal of civil society is not an illusion, and it's not dead.  In a city of 8 million with all the power out, strangers go out of their way to help each other despite the fact that they could do whatever they wanted and probably get away with it.  Civil society exists and it does more to protect us than any handgun secreted in our underwear drawer ever could.  (That said, I do wonder what would have happened during those events if NYC had the gun laws of, say, Oklahoma.  I suspect all hell would have broken loose.)

Regardless, no one is suggesting that people should no longer have the right to their Smith & Wesson security blankets.  

What we're suggesting is that banning military grade weapons - weapons with large capacity magazines and the ability to fire hundreds of rounds a minute - is good public policy.  Will it solve the problem of violent crime in this country?  Of course not.  But it's a damn good place to start.

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#15 Cheile

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 01:07 PM

sharing this cuz i didn't know and i wonder how many others don't....but it's related and it makes a good point:
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#16 BklnScott

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 01:18 PM

Even the New York Post called Wayne LaPierre a "gun nut" and "NRA loon" on its cover today.  The cover goes on to say he went on a "bizarre rant" over the Newtown shootings.  Which is of course understatement.  

We're living in an extraordinary time when we can watch another element of Ronald Reagan's conservative movement destroy itself on almost a daily basis.  This week it was the NRA and the House Republicans who destroyed themselves.

What's next...?  

The Heritage Foundation folds?

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#17 FarscapeOne

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

View PostNiko, on 21 December 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

View PostFarscapeOne, on 21 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

But guess what?  The black market exists, and if someone is determined enough, they'll find a way to purchase a machine gun.
Someone might go through back alleys to get a gun, so hey, let's just make it easy?  *IF* someone is determined enough, they'll find a way to purchase a gun, so let's not bother weeding out the ones who AREN'T "determined enough"?  Let's not put any roadblocks in the way of would-be killers at all.  (Until they show up on our doorstep firing hundreds of bullets a minute at the first person they see, of course.  That makes so much more sense.)

I would also be curious to know who the NRA thinks is going to pay for these security guards in every school?  With their Republican allies stripping money from schools every sliver of a chance they get, where exactly are schools are going to get the money for this?   You want any tom, dick, or harry to be able to buy a gun - *you* pay the additional taxes to lock down our schools and keep our children safe from your fellow gun owners.   (Who are, after all, humans who can't be relied upon or trusted.)

If you had bothered to read my entire post, you would have noticed that I STARTED out by AGREEING that machine guns and military weapons should NOT be able to be bought in the first place.  In no part of my post did I actually say or hint at making it easier to buy such weapons so people can go on a killing spree.

#18 Niko

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:30 PM

^Fair enough.  Sorry for pulling it out of context.  That particular line of argument *REALLY* gets my back up.  I've seen way too many people on my Facebook and twitter this week making the same point without any provisos.

(And I confess, I had to go back and look multiple times at your post to see your first line.  I never realized it before, but my brain seems to skip the first line of a post when it's all on one line.  It's blending into the header for me somehow.  :p )
- Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.    (Matthew 25:40)

- Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart.  (Proverbs 3:3)

#19 Nonny

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

From 1995:
http://beingliberal....ional-rifle-ass
Letter of Resignation Sent By Bush to Rifle Association

Quote

Following is the letter of resignation sent by former President George Bush to the National Rifle Association: May 3, 1995
Dear Mr. Washington,
I was outraged when, even in the wake of the Oklahoma City tragedy, Mr. Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of N.R.A., defended his attack on federal agents as “jack-booted thugs.” To attack Secret Service agents or A.T.F. people or any government law enforcement people as “wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms” wanting to “attack law abiding citizens” is a vicious slander on good people...

I am a gun owner and an avid hunter. Over the years I have agreed with most of N.R.A.’s objectives, particularly your educational and training efforts, and your fundamental stance in favor of owning guns.
However, your broadside against Federal agents deeply offends my own sense of decency and honor; and it offends my concept of service to country. It indirectly slanders a wide array of government law enforcement officials, who are out there, day and night, laying their lives on the line for all of us.
You have not repudiated Mr. LaPierre’s unwarranted attack. Therefore, I resign as a Life Member of N.R.A., said resignation to be effective upon your receipt of this letter. Please remove my name from your membership list.
Sincerely,
[ signed ] George Bush
Published in 1995 in The New York Times


Wayne LaPierre.  Yeah, I'd call him crazy.
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#20 Nonny

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 07:56 AM

http://www.motherjon...-mass-shootings

Do Armed Civilians Stop Mass Shooters? Actually, No.

Five cases commonly cited as a rationale for arming Americans don't stand up to scrutiny.

Quote

... More broadly, attempts by armed civilians to intervene in shooting rampages are rare—and are successful even more rarely. (Two people who tried it in recent years were gravely wounded or killed.) And law enforcement overwhelmingly hates the idea....


Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot



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