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2.18 Profit and Loss

DS9-RW

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#1 Orpheus

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:09 AM


Quark is reunited with his lost Cardassian love, but he learns that she is a member of the Cardassian underground.



#2 enTranced

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:11 PM

ZAP!

"Well, some people should NEVER be promoted!" - Garek, AKA The Badass of DS9.

Forget DS9 Worf's endless tiresome postering, Garek IS DS9's badass.

This one is pretty much my favorite of season two and one of my favorite Garek episodes. I love the line above, Quark and Garek talking about fashion but not, Gul Loser finding out he should have just stayed on his ship, it's all awesome and just so much fun.

Natima has always been one of my favorite Cardassians and I always regreted her not having a followup episode. I loved her scenes with Quark, both actors sharing a great intensity, and I loved the way she brought out the best in the crew she meets.

On a production side just loved our first look at a female Cardassian, and I think it worked just as well as the female Klingon look. Her little breast spot and the ridges on her shoulders....well I can see why Quark was so taken. ;)

Top marks for this one.

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#3 QuiGon John

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

I loved the Garak moment you quoted, but other than that, I had almost a completely opposite take on this episode. I found it dull and annoying and just didn't care. They were kinda doing a DS9 take on Casablanca-- which you'd think I'd love, since I consider it maybe the greatest film of all time-- and Garak in the role of the French captain is spot-on, but I just can't wrap my mind around Quark as Rick. Maybe if they'd tried it with (in order of likelihood) Sisko, Odo, Dax, Kira, O'Brien, or even Bashir... but not Quark.

Also, I will never forgive this episode for apparently inspiring the title of That Other Episode. I wasn't crazy about this one, but by comparison to the horror that was to come, it was frickin' King Lear.

Edited by QuiGon John, 08 March 2013 - 01:31 PM.


#4 enTranced

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:11 PM

I love that they used Quark.Quark when used well and used with a serious intent like he was here is amazing. I love it that Quark is the one Ferengi that is PROUD of that fact. He can at the same time screw over Natima and love Natima, hell he WORSHIPS Natima and he has ZERO,NONE, NO problem with squaring that in his head and he is stunned that nobody else gets it. I love that about Quark and I wish that the endless mostly annoying comdies to come didn't threaten to overwhelm what they acomplished in this episode.

And then you mix that awesome with Mr. Plain and Simple Badass Garek, well that is classic DS9 for me. :cool:

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#5 enTranced

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:13 PM

Oh, and yes I am implying that Worf is the finiest tree in Keiko's garden even though the best trees have arm spikes. :purpleninja:

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#6 Josh

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:26 PM

It's generally accepted this is one of the weakest eps of the season so you giving it five stars is completely inexplicable to me. :p I'll watch it later tonight but the last time I saw it, I needed five cups of coffee to stay awake.
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#7 enTranced

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

You should know by now I am never one of those generally folks. :)

I have always loved this episode, I just freaking love the mix of Garek/Quark/Natima. I love how she gets this strong reaction from all the guys she meets even Sisko gets to brood with her. She isn't just a love object for one of the guys, she has some real power in this episode, so much so that the Cardassions need to threaten the station with a warship!

I dig that just as much today as I did when I first saw it.

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#8 FarscapeOne

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:36 PM

View PostenTranced, on 08 March 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

ZAP!

"Well, some people should NEVER be promoted!" - Garek, AKA The Badass of DS9.

Forget DS9 Worf's endless tiresome postering, Garek IS DS9's badass.

This one is pretty much my favorite of season two and one of my favorite Garek episodes. I love the line above, Quark and Garek talking about fashion but not, Gul Loser finding out he should have just stayed on his ship, it's all awesome and just so much fun.

Natima has always been one of my favorite Cardassians and I always regreted her not having a followup episode. I loved her scenes with Quark, both actors sharing a great intensity, and I loved the way she brought out the best in the crew she meets.

On a production side just loved our first look at a female Cardassian, and I think it worked just as well as the female Klingon look. Her little breast spot and the ridges on her shoulders....well I can see why Quark was so taken. ;)

Top marks for this one.

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This wasn't the first time we saw a female Cardassian.  We first saw one on TNG's "The Chase", which would have been during DS9's first season.  Though granted, it's the first time we see one on DS9...

I will say that for some reason, the female Cardassians are quite alluring.  I don't know if it's the actress they cast each time or the makeup they do, or a combination, but they have a penchant for getting it right in that department.  Probably my favorite female Cardassian was Tracy Scoggins.  (Though I have ALWAYS loved how she looked... there was always something so seductive about her.  Almost exotic.)

Edited by FarscapeOne, 08 March 2013 - 03:37 PM.


#9 enTranced

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:07 PM

^ It has been to long since I watched my TNG DVD's I guess! Thanks for the correction!

Maybe we should add that to our rewatch possibilities?

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#10 Josh

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

Yuck. There's worse episodes this season ("Melora" topping my list) but none that are quite this boring. The main problem is that I didn't believe Quark's motivations. He has feelings for this woman because the script demands it, not because it feels natural. I didn't believe for a second that Quark was willing to do all the things he does here. The two actors have zero chemistry together and their scenes move at a glacial pace, often inviting ridicule from this viewer sitting eight feet away. Howling dialogue like "I love you Quark. I always will." just magnifies the issue. Natima makes a big deal about how her students are the future of Cardassia but it goes without saying that doesn't end up meaning much of anything.

And while Garak killing Toran was a very Garak moment, it also opened up gigantic plot holes. How did he get away with this murder? Did Odo just smile and shrug it off? Why did the Cardassian ship let it pass? There are real character and political ramifications from such a decision and the episode doesn't care. Still, it's a good thing Garak was around because his scenes were the only time I wakened from a boredom-induced coma. He has a great scene with Quark in his shop which is easily the best in the episode.

(I did kinda like the visual effect at the beginning of the shop getting tractored in. Very nifty.)
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#11 DWF

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:24 PM

View PostenTranced, on 08 March 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

ZAP!

"Well, some people should NEVER be promoted!" - Garek, AKA The Badass of DS9.

Forget DS9 Worf's endless tiresome postering, Garek IS DS9's badass.

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529921_355593657810614_133153073388008_900122_265659831_n.jpg

Sisko took on five Jem'Hadar in part one of The Search not even Worf can beat that.
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#12 QuiGon John

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:52 PM

^ Love that graphic. I'd bet on Sisko as the all-time badass among the Trek captains. Yes, even above Kirk...

Edited by QuiGon John, 08 March 2013 - 08:52 PM.


#13 Cardie

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:12 PM

John, it has to be Quark because he runs the bar and casino, just like Rick did.

I admit I watch this only for Garak but I don't think it's that boring overall.
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#14 Josh

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:47 PM

The episode (and one or two later ones) actually makes me wish they had paired up Garak and Quark more often.
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#15 enTranced

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:29 PM

^ Yes.

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#16 writergroupie

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:40 PM

I know, I know - I'm at least two weeks behind.  I'll blame a recurring cold for part of it, but I'm going to start working on catching up now!

I'm with enT - I really enjoy this ep. :)  I even forget that it's Casablanca. :p

One of the best Quark eps combines some wonderful Quark/Odo sparring and some great Garak scenes with someone other than Julian for a change!  Here the "ex-KGB/cold war spy" side of Garak is really played up to good effect.  You feel sympathy for him and want him to be able to go home, but you also know that his Cardassia is an old ailing beast that needs to be put out of its misery and that even he knows it on some level.

A lovely, gentle turn by Mary Crosby also delights.  A shame this storyline didn't recur on the show (though I think it was followed up on in the novels).
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#17 Josh

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:45 PM

View Postwritergroupie, on 23 March 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

I know, I know - I'm at least two weeks behind.  I'll blame a recurring cold for part of it, but I'm going to start working on catching up now!


I'm about a week behind so it's not just you. ;)
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#18 writergroupie

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:47 PM

View PostJosh, on 08 March 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

And while Garak killing Toran was a very Garak moment, it also opened up gigantic plot holes. How did he get away with this murder? Did Odo just smile and shrug it off? Why did the Cardassian ship let it pass? There are real character and political ramifications from such a decision and the episode doesn't care.
This one's totally easy - he handed his phaser off to Hoag when they were leaving so the literally smoking gun is gone with the ship.  Garak's then simple explanation: he was too late to stop them from leaving - the Gul had said he was going to handle it and apparently was so incompetent that he let Hoag kill him and the "terrorists" all escape.  Blamed squarely on the other parties, Quark isn't going to say otherwise.  Problem solved.

And they passed the Cardassian ship because they had the cloaking device... why am I feeling deja vu with this answer?  I think I've said this before. LOL
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#19 QuiGon John

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:07 PM

I concede that Quark's role in the plot mirrors Rick's, and he's even got the "I stick my neck out for nobody" attitude. But you have to be Bogey to pull off Bogey. Or at least, you can't be a weaselly Ferengi.

I did have another complaint about this episode, but I hesitate to mention it because I haven't re-watched it yet. Oh, well...

My memory is that this episode always seemed... off to me somehow, like much of the dialogue was subtly out-of-character and a bit surreal (with the exception of Garak, who is basically always brilliant unless it's the MIrror Universe, and even then he's OK). My guess as to the reason for this would be the channeling-Casablanca thing; they were trying too hard to mirror something else and not hard enough to be DS9.

But I can't really back that up at this point, nor can I swear I'd feel the same way today. Maybe I should actually re-watch this one to be sure... although, that seems kind of extreme... :p

#20 writergroupie

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:07 PM

View PostQuiGon John, on 23 March 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

My memory is that this episode always seemed... off to me somehow, like much of the dialogue was subtly out-of-character and a bit surreal (with the exception of Garak, who is basically always brilliant unless it's the MIrror Universe, and even then he's OK). My guess as to the reason for this would be the channeling-Casablanca thing; they were trying too hard to mirror something else and not hard enough to be DS9.
Actually, you are right on that and I noticed it too in my re-watch.  The scenes between Quark & Odo are great as are the scenes with Garak.  But the scenes with Quark & Natima seem forced and the dialogue seems a bit hollow.  That said, I still really enjoyed the acting even if the words didn't always work.
I write, therefore I am.

But... but... if it's not magic and sparkly how can I use it to reshape the universe?  Without the magic sparklies, it's like... just a metaphor.
-- Me (on bonsai)



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