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The UK and the EU

eu europe uk referendum cameron little europe 2013

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#1 SparkyCola

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:19 AM

Just encountered this article about the UK and EU situation.

http://www.ifre.com/...1061613.article


He makes a lot of excellent points, I think. The main one being:

Quote

This country would be happy in an EU which gave as much credence to the differences as it does to the similarities, in other words if it were able to be as "multi-cultural" as this country is – less "either, or" and more "not only, but also".


But what do you think?

Sparky


ps - formatting is messing up for some reason but posting anyway.

Edited by Cait, 11 January 2013 - 05:50 PM.

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#2 offworlder

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:32 PM

I canna tell you how many times in the past four months I have done Cut and about to Paste in here, then
thought Oh no one on here wants to 'do' the UK/eu thing so no won't paste just shut up
;)
now all those R gone N past, canna paste em today
;)
here is interesting quote in that piece there,
> ' My contention is that many of the issues which tax the European minds do not affect this country and are hence not part of its political culture or, to be more general, its collective state of mind. The “one size fits all” approach to policy, economic, fiscal and social, which is aimed at creating unity is anathema to British thinking. As I noted, democracy is not about obeying rules but about breaking them. Opposition to authority is not anarchy but order. The mayhem which is the House of Commons is a case in point.
'
BUT, I wonder if that opin guy there in yours has been reading the tons O ink on this in past four months, on
Guardian, Independent, Telegraph, over all these issues within issues, quandries within enigmas, et al

I found that the main two issues are that UK wants no longer to contribute the amount of monies they have done
without getting like weight back, in other words they say it's too unfair too little return on investment vs. EU countries;
and the other, the UK wants not to give up so much sovereignty in issues like justice system, courts, and labour,
workers, employers... those two issues mainly plus some others inked and printed so much this past year

UK does not like how Brussels and Germany and France get the lion's share of sovereignty in EU and UK does not
have their sovereignty in the pact; they want to have Alliance with the continent nations but not live in a Federal state,
one where London is no longer the capital of UK , Brussels is? in other words they are more interested in the Trade advantages,
and many against the Cameron moves say there will be too much lost in the Trade issues if they leave it.

ps,
i'll cut N paste this one, Merkel saying don't blackmail us,
http://www.guardian....nt-blackmail-eu
' The chair of Germany's European affairs committee, Gunther Krichbaum, is leading a high-powered delegation from the German Bundestag on a two-day visit to Britain.
He said: "There is certainly a risk that [a referendum] could paralyse efforts for a better Europe and deeper integration. Britain would risk being isolated. That cannot be in Britain's interests."
Asked how Germany would respond to the UK's threat to block treaty changes designed to make the euro stronger if the UK is not granted the reforms it seeks, Krichbaum said: "You cannot create a political future if you are blackmailing other states. That will not help Britain. It needs a Europe that is stable. It needs markets that are functioning."
He also questioned whether Cameron would be able to control the terms of a referendum on renegotiated terms of membership.
"You have to ask yourself if it is wise to carry out a referendum. It is certainly possible to convince people of advantages of the EU. But there is always a risk that the referendum becomes – as Charles de Gaulle put it – less about the question asked and more about the person who's asking it." '
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#3 SparkyCola

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:36 PM

^ Gotta love German directness ;) They are right though - trying that would be pretty childish, and I hope no one is seriously suggesting it. The euro being stronger is obviously in the UK's interests as well.

But I think the opinion piece I linked to sums up the British feeling on the matter - although the feeling towards the interference of the US is more complicated. It stems from the impression that the rest of the world views the relationship between the US and the UK as one of a puppetmaster and a puppet, or an owner and their enthusiastic, obedient puppy. We are trying to get away from the imbalance of that and the embarrassing way it makes the UK look (but note that the resentment is not aimed at the US, we are perfectly happy to be in a strong relationship with the US. It all comes back to following the US into the Iraq war though, which was deeply unpopular over here).

Suffice to say, it is not at all welcome and does nothing to further the pro-EU side of things. And in the context of this, it sounds a little like the USA want us in the EU because the US thinks it can manipulate the UK and have its interests represented. We don't want to be manipulated. Thanks to those comments, there's no way for Cameron to decide to stay in the EU without it looking like we're just kissing US butt. There was a comment on this article in the Guardian actually, re: the US comments, which said "I was pro-EU until I read this" - he was joking, but the point remains.

Do the Americans here have any views on why the US is so keen for UK to be in the EU? (Too many two letter abbreviations here!)

Sparky
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#4 UoR11

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

The only reason I can see why we'd want the UK in the EU would be that it'd be nice for the EU to have a country that at least has some concept that an all powerful government is a bad thing. Both the UK and US have gotten a lot worse about that over the last 15 years or so, but there's still some feeling that the government doesn't really have your best interests at heart. Whereas my German friends seem completely incapable of understanding that the government and police can be just as corrupt as anyone, and capable of doing a lot of damage when they are.

The UK joining the EU might slow down the massive out of control bureaucracy that the EU's implemented, but I doubt it'll help. Personally, I'd rather not have the UK tether itself to a sinking ship.
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#5 SparkyCola

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:52 PM

Mod help required- could someone please delete the 2012 tag? I put it there because I'm a moron :rolleyes:

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#6 Nonny

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

Can you delete it by editing, like you could with the title?
Posted Image


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#7 Cait

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:49 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on 10 January 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Mod help required- could someone please delete the 2012 tag? I put it there because I'm a moron :rolleyes:

Sparky

Done.  And you are not a moron.  :)

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Rule#6: Remember the future.

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#8 FnlPrblm

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:15 AM

^right

This isn't getting a lot of press over here, Sparky.  However, another ponderance is having another country which is extremely stable (at least financially) stay in the E.U. to help keep balance to those who are faultering (politically and financially).  In a way, think of it as a friend pushing an older brother to move back home to keep the rowdy kids in line.  If the U.K. is inside the E.U., it can help better police/push/rally/help out in the countries which both and/or request it.  Otherwise, you've got a country which is basically invading/meddling in another's biz, even if the E.U.'s govt. is asking for it.  That would be no different than asking help from the U.S. (which has gained us international fame as bullies or "great friends", depending on the perspective.)
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#9 SparkyCola

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

^Heh, I'm not sure you could call us financially stable at the moment, since we're in a triple-dip recession!

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#10 FnlPrblm

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:13 PM

^Better than Greece, Spain, Portugal, Iceland and Italy.  Heck, Germany & France are the stable ones, yet like China & the U.S., so much debt is owned by the stable ones it is causing an all eggs in one basket affect.  China is also predicted to start possibly negatively growing (or so low positively it doesn't matter).  The U.S. can't get its act together and could essentially take down a huge part of the world's economy (China with it).
"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes: The Beryl Coronet

The Boscombe Valley Mystery: "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing." --- Ralph Waldo Emerson 'Art,' 1841

"Such welcome and unwelcome things at once, 'Tis hard to reconcile." --- Macbeth IV.III.138-9


LauraBertram.net

"Once in one's life, for one mortal moment, one must make a grab for immortality; if not, one has not lived." -- Sylvester Stallone

Time to eat all your words, swallow your pride, open your eyes...Sowing the Seeds of Love - Tears4Fears

#11 offworlder

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:39 PM

wanna add this update- course there are so many pieces each week in the Independent,
the Telegraph, oh hell all uk press on this Cameron stuff and getting support for referendum

but here, BBC has this thing,
http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-21140766

and nifty part is these EU guys with their viewpoints and this one here,
from a Finn,
'
But I also have a small concern that he wants to wait so many years before having it. I'm afraid Mr Cameron may be placing too much hope on the EU's will and ability to reform.
It's been a core ideology of the EU to advance towards a federal state and that means transferring more powers to Brussels. This may happen in small steps, but those steps have always been towards integration and regulation, done by Brussels. So this EU ideology is unlikely to change any time soon. I expect the EU to look very much the same in 2017 as it does now.
' If we could see a landslide victory in Europe for parties that oppose the federal state then this would give huge momentum for significant reform in the EU.
It would be a significant change if the UK left, but not a blow or disaster. He's absolutely right that our main target should be to reform the EU so that it does not regulate so much. But I'm a bit sceptical that the EU has the will for such reform.
Finns are quite concerned about the development of the eurozone - more solidarity, common debt and all that. We want to remain an independent country.

oh hell, codes on the paste, so let's get those size-1 things out,edit,edit,
do I MUst needs paste thru notepad forever now?

Edited by offworlder, 29 January 2013 - 05:41 PM.

"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D



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