

Should PTSD Exclude Gun Ownership?
#1
Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:09 PM
So I'm asking, should gun ownership be out of the question for PTSD suffers? I ask because the suicide rate among our troops is very high right now and many will be coming home soon to the same broken, understaffed, underfunded mental health services we have suffered with forever and it makes me wonder. IF they weren't allowed to purchase weapons if they were diagnosed with PTSD, would that detour them from seeking help? Should mental status be cut and dried for certain mental issues?


#2
Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

The once and future Nonny
"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting? I found this with no attribution.
Fatal miscarriages are forever.
Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice. Suzanne Brockmann
All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot
#3
Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:00 PM
I think instead of saying "we shouldn't let people with X diagnosis own guns" we should have some sort of comprehensive mental health system and try to de-stigmatize mental health issues. People who do have problems should be able to be seen regularly by professionals and have their illnesses managed the same way a patient with diabetes or any other chronic syndrome would have their health managed. That way people who are acutely ill could have access to weapons revoked and possibly decrease the risk of them hurting themselves/someone else, but once a disorder is managed and the person is no longer a risk they could have access reinstated. Some people would never be safe to have weapons - there are some people that PTSD (or depression, schizophrenia, or whatever) just has too strong a hold over. They should still be getting help, which is where our country often flounders.
Develop compassion for your enemies, that is genuine compassion. Limited compassion cannot produce this altruism. -- H. H. the Dalai Lama
#4
Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:13 PM
Nikcara, on 17 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:
I can hope.

The once and future Nonny
"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting? I found this with no attribution.
Fatal miscarriages are forever.
Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice. Suzanne Brockmann
All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot
#5
Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:33 PM


#6
Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:40 PM
http://www.dailykos....inst-it-in-2008
GOP BSers who say fixing mental health system will cut gun violence voted against it in 2008
Quote
Josh Israel writes:
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Now, several of those opponents are criticizing President Obama, who co-sponsored the Wellstone Act, for not doing enough to address mental health in his gun violence proposals—even though several of the executive orders in the package do just that.


The once and future Nonny
"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting? I found this with no attribution.
Fatal miscarriages are forever.
Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice. Suzanne Brockmann
All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot
#7
Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:32 PM
- Robert A. Heinlein
When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH
Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen. - RAH
#8
Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:44 PM
#9
Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:26 PM
Quote
#10
Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:53 AM
Quote
There are Scott, how many of them have actually been diagnosed, is a number I don't have but I'm sure there are many more who haven't sought help and in some cases don't realise they need help.
I'm quite certain the extremely high level of suicides in the military is directly a result of PTSD (diagnosed and not diagnosed). I'd also wager the servicemen going on trial for murdering villagers in Afghanistan would also fall under the heading of mental disorders (PTSD or some other mental issue). I think PTSD sufferers are more of a danger to themselves than others more often than not but at the end of the day, should people who are inclined to suicidal tendencies be able to get a gun license whether they are a danger to themselves or others?


#11
Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:12 AM
Sparky
#12
Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:17 AM
Brain-dead barkings such as "Sir! Yes, Sir!" and "I'm an American and I did my bit!" eventually and inevitably give way to introspection as these brainwashed teenagers grow up and try to make sense of their ruined lives and the horrible, senseless things they've done. Those that don't have the equipment for introspection and sorting things out tend to wig out and go postal, as their broken emotional wherewithall seeks expression in the only language they know- extreme violence.
Bang, bang.
#13
Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:03 PM
Would somebody please give me an undeserved karma to square things with the universe?

Rhea, on 17 January 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:
That would exclude hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of veterans who, in spite of our diagnoses, are not a danger to ourselves or others. And the backlash would be huge.
BklnScott, on 17 January 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:
Tons of active duty, tons of reserve, and tons and tons and tons of veterans.
Lin731, on 18 January 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:
Quote
There are Scott, how many of them have actually been diagnosed, is a number I don't have but I'm sure there are many more who haven't sought help and in some cases don't realise they need help.
I'm quite certain the extremely high level of suicides in the military is directly a result of PTSD (diagnosed and not diagnosed). I'd also wager the servicemen going on trial for murdering villagers in Afghanistan would also fall under the heading of mental disorders (PTSD or some other mental issue). I think PTSD sufferers are more of a danger to themselves than others more often than not but at the end of the day, should people who are inclined to suicidal tendencies be able to get a gun license whether they are a danger to themselves or others?
I found your post to be thoughtful, and on second reading, must admit that it's my suicidal thoughts that keep me gunfree, so, yeah, your question is a good one. I seldom go over the line to urges, I but have chosen not to take the chance, but then, I know that, no matter what, I have made a commitment to myself (and, though I haven't burdened them with this, my family) to not end my own life.
gsmonks, on 18 January 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:
Brain-dead barkings such as "Sir! Yes, Sir!" and "I'm an American and I did my bit!" eventually and inevitably give way to introspection as these brainwashed teenagers grow up and try to make sense of their ruined lives and the horrible, senseless things they've done. Those that don't have the equipment for introspection and sorting things out tend to wig out and go postal, as their broken emotional wherewithall seeks expression in the only language they know- extreme violence.
Bang, bang.
Guidelines prohibit.

The once and future Nonny
"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting? I found this with no attribution.
Fatal miscarriages are forever.
Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice. Suzanne Brockmann
All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot
#14
Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:22 PM
That's why the military recruits kids. It's the same reason restaurants hire kids instead of adults. They can pay kids minimum wage, treat them like garbage, withhold benefits, do pretty much whatever they want to them.
By the time those kids grow up, they're usually out of the military, and impotent in terms of taking the military to task or holding them to account.
BTW- I gave you a Karma point to even things out a bit.
Edited by gsmonks, 18 January 2013 - 01:22 PM.
#15
Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:22 PM




SFG
Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after. As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.


Check out my music threads:
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#16
Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:02 PM
Quote
#17
Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:04 PM
Quote
While I can agree that the government owes our soldiers far better than they've recieved I don't agree with the assesment that they are dupes. Nam was a draft situation, Afghanistan was IMO a justifiable war. Iraq I didn't support but soldiers don't get to decide where they will fight and where they won't. Our government has let them down on many occassions but the desire to serve and protect your country is an honorable calling, shame those making the decisions often aren't as honorable as those doing the fighting and dying.


#18
Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:09 PM
Gsmonks, while in many ways soldiers and vets have been treated badly by government, to blame the soldiers for that is just wrong, literally adding insult to injury. And whatever gripes you may have with the government, or it's decisions about wars etc., insulting soldiers because of that is not only misplaced blame, but just adds more harm to a bad situation.
SFG
Edited by Sci-Fi Girl, 18 January 2013 - 05:10 PM.
Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after. As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.


Check out my music threads:
Beautiful Music: Folk, Acoustic, Traditional, and World
A Celebration of Song Lyrics, New and Old: Just the poetry (to include those with different musical tastes than me)
When Sci Fi Actors Sing
#19
Posted 18 January 2013 - 06:02 PM
#20
Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:41 AM
Sci-Fi Girl, on 18 January 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:
Gsmonks, while in many ways soldiers and vets have been treated badly by government, to blame the soldiers for that is just wrong, literally adding insult to injury. And whatever gripes you may have with the government, or it's decisions about wars etc., insulting soldiers because of that is not only misplaced blame, but just adds more harm to a bad situation.
SFG
H'm . . . must've come out wrong.
I wasn't blaming the soldiers, SFG. I was saying that they're USED and used badly, and the WAY they get used is that they're young. They're kids, still at the age when they would otherwise be living at home, and as such they're ripe for being used by authority figures.
We have a HUGE problem here in Canada, the US as well, and Britiain as far as I know, where soldiers are given crappy pensions and are not properly taken care of.
And it's been going on for generations. North Vancouver, when I was a kid, had a number of Neighbourhood Houses, which were barracks-like buildings housing WWI vets. The way WWI vets were treated, in Canada, the US and in Europe, was downright criminal. In fact, three incompetent, disgusting worms who crapped on WWI vets in an absolutely criminal manner were Patton, MacArthur and Eisenhower in 1932 during the Bonus March.
The three of them, Patton, Eisenhower and MacArthur, should have been strung up for their part in it.
For his part, Eisenhower was an incompetent, evil-minded dolt whose treatment of his own soldiers during the Battle of the Bulge was a war crime. Soldiers who were burnt out and not fit for duty were thrown back into the battle until they were killed. They were given huge doses of sodium pentathol and were given a hatchet-job session of brainwashing, and sent, doped up, messed up and disoriented, back into the meat-grinder, most often to be killed.
This is kids we're talking about. This is what was done to people's kids.
It seems that the moment we pin a label on people, they become expendable numbers. The moment a person goes from being Joe Green to "a soldier", their value as a person, as a living being, has been extinguished. This is something in itself that goes to the heart of the matter, that has to change.
Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: gun control, mental health, 2013, 2nd amendment, Constitution
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