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NM Bill would criminalize abortion in rape cases

New Mexico Abortion Tampering with evidence Rape 2013

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#1 Cait

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:54 PM

Someone please make the insanity on this issue stop.  Just STOP!!  I'm sure this has no chance of passing, but that a lawmaker in our country would actually introduce it, is frightening to me.  People voted for her.  Actually voted for her.

Link to the story of HufPost... http://www.huffingto...html?ref=topbar

Link to the actual text of the bill because I thought this report was exaggerating the particulars, but they weren't..

http://www.nmlegis.g...ouse/HB0206.pdf

Quote

A Republican lawmaker in New Mexico introduced a bill on Wednesday that would legally require victims of rape to carry their pregnancies to term in order to use the fetus as evidence for a sexual assault trial.
House Bill 206, introduced by state Rep. Cathrynn Brown ®, would charge a rape victim who ended her pregnancy with a third-degree felony for "tampering with evidence."
“Tampering with evidence shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime," the bill says.
Third-degree felonies in New Mexico carry a sentence of up to three years in prison.

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#2 Nonny

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:58 PM

:wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

Please make the stupid go away.   :(
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#3 Mary Rose

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:09 PM

^You can't.  It's here to stay.
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#4 Tricia

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:40 PM

Um....like they can't still collect the aborted fetus for evidence anyway.

not sure how that works but I'm sure they could find a way if they chose to...I  mean, the DNA does not change.  It's still the same regardless of whether the fetus is aborted or carried to term.

And IF they ccould criminalize abortion in cases of rape,  how long before they use the same logic to deny the morning after pill?



Don't think it has any chance of passing either but the fact that someone even thought this was a good idea... :headshake:

Edited by Tricia, 24 January 2013 - 06:43 PM.

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#5 Lin731

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:53 PM

It's just more mucking around trying to find a way to do what they haven't been able to legislate. If you can't outlaw it, find ways to defund it or pass laws so onerous that providers can't possible meet them. These guys wonder why they are held in such low regard?  I've seen some life long Republicans leave the party over stuff like this lately, feeling that the party is spending way too much time trying to go back to the 50's and not nearly enough time in te present doing things that are vital to the country as a whole.
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#6 Omega

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:12 PM

Perhaps we should have some process by which legislators can be punished for passing blatantly unconstitutional laws...

#7 sierraleone

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:46 PM

While very very unlikely, if this passed.... How the heck do you enforce this?

You could have as part of the medical form(s) for the abortion ask if the pregnancy is a result of rape.

However, if a woman indicates that the pregnancy is not a result of rape, are they taken as their word... or would the police reports be checked? Would this possibly cause less women to report rape?

If a women does indicate it is a result of rape, is the abortion just not allowed, or is it allowed and it is determined the women broke a law? What if she didn't report the rape, is she additionally charged with not reporting a crime (if that is a crime there)?

What about "unsure"? One could have had consensual sex with one man, and gotten raped by a different man, with in a week. A women who gets pregnant in such a situation isn't going to know who the father is. Will the woman be prevented from having an abortion.... or is in in-vitro paternity test done against the man the woman had consensual sex with, and the go-ahead allowed if it is that man?! What if those two men are not different men, i.e. one night a woman had consensual sex with a man, and the next night got raped by the same man?
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#8 Themis

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

And a woman introduced this bill!!!!  Unfreakingbelievable.
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#9 Rhea

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:05 AM

View PostThemis, on 25 January 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

And a woman introduced this bill!!!!  Unfreakingbelievable.

That just dumbfounds me.
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#10 Nonny

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:22 AM

It's punitive, of course, but I think it's also meant to put psychological pressure on any woman who's had an abortion in the past.  Keep reminding us that we're not supposed to recover from it, ever.   :sarcasm:
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#11 Nonny

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

View PostThemis, on 25 January 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

And a woman introduced this bill!!!!  Unfreakingbelievable.

I wish I could say I'm astonished, but, sadly, I'm just sad.  I knew a woman who was in at the founding of Operation Rescue.  She kept trying to recruit me, and I was too polite in my refusals.  She ranted at an elderly friend of mine with no idea at all that my friend had had two back alley abortions in the 50s.  In that rant, she admitted that she wanted abortion outlawed in this country, but would move heaven and earth to get her own daughter to a country where she could have one if she so desired.  What a cow!   :headshake:
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#12 FarscapeOne

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:01 AM

Idiotic moves like this are among the many reasons why this country is degrading further and further daily.

Besides, what's to stop a woman impregnated by rape simply going to another state and getting an abortion done?  What are they going to do, put her on house arrest until she carries to term?

#13 Mark

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:05 AM

View PostCait, on 24 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Someone please make the insanity on this issue stop.  Just STOP!!  I'm sure this has no chance of passing, but that a lawmaker in our country would actually introduce it, is frightening to me.  People voted for her.  Actually voted for her.

Link to the story of HufPost... http://www.huffingto...html?ref=topbar

Link to the actual text of the bill because I thought this report was exaggerating the particulars, but they weren't..

http://www.nmlegis.g...ouse/HB0206.pdf

Quote

A Republican lawmaker in New Mexico introduced a bill on Wednesday that would legally require victims of rape to carry their pregnancies to term in order to use the fetus as evidence for a sexual assault trial.
House Bill 206, introduced by state Rep. Cathrynn Brown ®, would charge a rape victim who ended her pregnancy with a third-degree felony for "tampering with evidence."
“Tampering with evidence shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime," the bill says.
Third-degree felonies in New Mexico carry a sentence of up to three years in prison.

Mark:  :shocked:  Surely this would go against some Federal law.
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#14 Rhea

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

Some idiot prosector must've been desperate for DNA testing to prove rape or something else. Who knows? I suppose it's too much to hope they'll censure the member??
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
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When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#15 Nikcara

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:17 PM

Even if a prosecutor WAS desperate for DNA and a rape kit had not been performed and the woman actually got pregnant (which is a lot of "ifs", but does happen) this is still a dumb idea.  If an abortion is performed, simply collect the expelled fetal tissue and do a DNA sample on that.  Fetal tissue doesn't have some weird DNA magic - it would still be a mix of maternal and paternal DNA, though the earlier an abortion happens the harder it is to collect due to size.  Then again, if a woman is getting the morning after pill for being raped there's no reason not to do a rape kit.

This is designed purely to punish women who want an abortion, regardless of why they want one.  You'll be hard pressed to find a rape case where conviction hinged on a child being born.  Besides, I'm sure any attorney would point out that having a child simply means that sex happened - it does not mean that it was or wasn't consensual, so there would have to be additional evidence.  

The fact that this lawmaker is now backtracking and claiming the bill is there to protect women from rapists who would force her to have an abortion despite the actual wording of the law just shows me that in addition to having horrid ideas about what other women, she also doesn't have the spine to admit to what she's actually trying to do.  I would still find her disgusting even if she did flat out say it, but now she looks like a bad liar in addition to being a misogynistic, self-righteous and compassionless idiot.
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#16 Nonny

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:00 PM

http://www.rawstory....with-jail-time/
New Republican Idea: Punishing Rape Victims With Jail Time

Quote

If you’re looking for evidence that the differences between men and women are greatly exaggerated, the fact that women are equally capable as men of mind-blowing misogyny should erase all doubt. New Mexico state Rep. Cathrynn Brown proved that this week by introducing a bill aimed at throwing rape victims in jail if they refuse to honor their rapist’s right to control their body by carrying his child. This sort of insult to rapists will not stand, so Brown, standing up bravely for rapists who want the suffering they’ve inflicted to carry on and on for their victims, has proposed banning abortion for rape victims on the phony grounds that it’s “tampering with evidence”.
Of course, the entire idea that having a rapist’s baby would somehow be treated as proof of a rape is beyond silly. ..
The narratives of sexual transgression and concealment that dictate how anti-choicers view abortion make this bill all the easier to understand. The possibility that women have abortions to reduce suffering in their lives, prevent economic catastrophe, or regain control over their lives are dismissed in favor of believing that an abortion means someone is hiding a sexy secret. It reduces rape to a “sexy secret” and, of course, reinforces the narrative that women are to blame for their rapes, because they are being so dirty and naughty and rowr that men have no choice but to put them in their place with some raping. (Implicit anti-choice narratives and really foul porn plots have a lot in common, which doesn’t strike me as a coincidence.) That’s why you get terms like “legitimate rape”. That’s why, I suspect, Republicans killed the Violence Against Women Act. The narrative that women bring violence on themselves by breaking the lady mandate to be quiet, chaste, and submissive seems to be gaining strength on the right, not that it ever really went away. Being raped is apparently a crime in and of itself, and if you won’t be punished by forced childbirth for being so rapeable, then jail time for you, in the eyes of Rep. Brown.

Makes sense to me.   :mad:

I tried googling her, wanted to see if she happened to have a son, maybe a football player at a school with a habit of shutting up rape victims for the sake of the team.  Can't find any personal information.
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#17 standish

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:26 PM

Every once in awhiile, I come across a story that just doesn't pass the "smell test".  This is one of them.  It didn't take much searching to find comments from the author of this bill.  I'm a little surprised no one here looked for them.  Anyway, here's an article that is critical of an MSNBC report on this law...


Quote

Had Roberts done some basic research, however, he would have realized the law is designed to do no such thing. In fact, as the bill itself says, the crime (emphasis mine), “shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime."

State Representative Cathrynn Brown said the purpose of the bill was to target perpetrators of rape or incest who try to cover their tracks by forcing their victims to have abortions.  Brown does say that she will clarify the language in the bill to remove any ambiguity that victims of rape would be charged, which she in no way desires to do.


Read more: http://newsbusters.o...s#ixzz2J2nS7fIy




Now, personally, I'm not aware of the crime, Ms. Brown refers to, being such a prevalent problem that it requires a law like this to be considered.  But, maybe I'm naive about it.

#18 sierraleone

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:19 PM

^ Isn't co-ercing someone to have an abortion a crime already, regardless of whether the pregnancy was a result of consensual sex, or rape? I would think that co-ercing rape victims to have abortions would typically be done by non-stranger rapist (such as incest or partner rape), sadly more common than most would probably guess I imagine.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#19 standish

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:52 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 25 January 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

^ Isn't co-ercing someone to have an abortion a crime already, regardless of whether the pregnancy was a result of consensual sex, or rape? I would think that co-ercing rape victims to have abortions would typically be done by non-stranger rapist (such as incest or partner rape), sadly more common than most would probably guess I imagine.


I would think so.  But, sadly, this wouldn't be the first time someone proposed an unnecessary law, and I'm pretty sure it won't be the last.

#20 Tricia

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:49 AM

View Poststandish, on 25 January 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Every once in awhiile, I come across a story that just doesn't pass the "smell test". This is one of them. It didn't take much searching to find comments from the author of this bill. I'm a little surprised no one here looked for them. Anyway, here's an article that is critical of an MSNBC report on this law...


Quote

Had Roberts done some basic research, however, he would have realized the law is designed to do no such thing. In fact, as the bill itself says, the crime (emphasis mine), “shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime."

State Representative Cathrynn Brown said the purpose of the bill was to target perpetrators of rape or incest who try to cover their tracks by forcing their victims to have abortions. Brown does say that she will clarify the language in the bill to remove any ambiguity that victims of rape would be charged, which she in no way desires to do.





Read more: http://newsbusters.o...s#ixzz2J2nS7fIy




Now, personally, I'm not aware of the crime, Ms. Brown refers to, being such a prevalent problem that it requires a law like this to be considered. But, maybe I'm naive about it.
I would also think that a rapist who is able to coerce someone into an abortion would be a non-stranger.

The language is not as clear as it could or should be then....and not sure how often this type of thing would happen either. Or how you could prove it either without written or recorded proof and that's a whole other thing if not obtained properly. :unsure:

Maybe I'm also naive about this crime being prevalent enough to justify a law (especially if it is already illegal)  but.... :unsure:

edited to add---not sure whether to believe that it was misinterpreted because of the language that would indicate that was one of the logical concolusions upon reading..that punishment would be put upon the victim also not just other persons.  Not sure anyone can say that was a wrong conclusion based on the wording.

Edited by Tricia, 26 January 2013 - 12:10 PM.

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: New Mexico, Abortion, Tampering with evidence, Rape, 2013

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