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Hillary, should she?

2013 Hillary Elections Election 2016

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#1 offworlder

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:49 PM

Now, I remember reading how Hillary is definitely planning semi retirement and not public office, will go live in Bedford area and of course she's too much an A type workaholic to really retire but just to get out of the horrid schedules- plan to work but she makes the sched and the choices, make appearances, panels, conferences, seminars, speech making, write two books, advisory things, guest of telly once in a while, travel only when she wants to and much much less hecticly than these years.

But,

http://www.cnn.com/2...nton/index.html

but with all this talk bout Clinton and the oval office... what about this facet? the big brass ring that the USA has never had a lady president and how often will the right opportunity come along... SHOULD she even if she does not want to? for the ladies? for the nation?

'

Because, as the most popular politician in America -- who also happens to be married to America's most popular ex-president and who has in place a nationwide network of donors, campaign staffers and committed supporters -- Clinton has the power to keep potential rivals from raising money or gaining political traction simply by saying, "I haven't decided what my plans are." She's in control.



'

That she should be in such a position at this moment is a remarkable achievement and an extraordinary testament to her grit, gifts and track record: She has been the most successful U.S. secretary of state in two decades. That outcome was hardly a foregone conclusion when Barack Obama made the bold decision to pick his former primary rival to assume the oldest and most senior post in the Cabinet.



'

Her tour de force performance this week before Senate and House committees looking into the Benghazi tragedy illustrated how far she has come. In a charged political environment, she commanded the stage and deftly repulsed effort after effort by Republican partisans to shift the focus away from what the lessons of the attacks were and should be, turning aside their theories of conspiracy and devious motives for the missteps surrounding the event. She defended the president and revealed her character by accepting responsibility.


'

Most importantly, Clinton clearly knew her brief better than any of those questioning her. When Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin attempted to score political points with a cynical line of questioning, she showed her strength and stature as a leader with a direct, unwavering response urging him to focus on the bigger issues at hand.


' When Sen. Rand Paul announced that had he been president he would have fired her, her response evinced an understanding of the issues and processes at play; it was evident that only one of the two of them had any chance of occupying the Oval Office in the future.


"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#2 gsmonks

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:28 PM

I'm not a big fan of her mentality at times, but regardless, she's the only logical successor for following the big "O" in my opinion.

Obama made a very wise choice by not making her vice president. That job would have been an insult to her intelligence and a complete waste of her talents.

What she will have learned over Obama's two terms will have been wasted if she doesn't make a run for the big chair. It's not just the US I'm thinking of here but the world stage, which is where she will really shine if she should become president. The things she's learning and doing right now make her uniquely qualified for the job.
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#3 Christopher

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:25 PM

I really hope Secretary Clinton does run in 2016. I felt in '08 that Obama was the slightly better candidate, but when I chose to support him, it was with the hope that I'd get to vote for Mrs. Clinton eight years later. And Clinton is so much more qualified and ideal for the role now than she was five years ago. It would be a lost opportunity if she didn't run. And not only because she'd probably be a shoo-in for election. She's accomplished so much as secretary of state -- imagine what she could achieve as president.

I do wonder a little about her age.  If she runs and wins, she'd be only about 9 months younger than President Reagan was when he took office. Clearly he proved it can be done, though.
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#4 NeuralClone

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:46 PM

Personally, I would prefer to not see a Clinton or a Bush anywhere near the White House in 2016, 2020, 2024, etc.
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#5 Josh

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:49 PM

I like Hillary Clinton. I'd vote for her.
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#6 Cait

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

Did anyone watch the interview of Obama & Hillary on 60 Minutes tonight?   She's running OR she is such a political animal that she knows to lay the groundwork just in case.  The Interview was practically Obama giving his endorsement for 2016.

Not that he shouldn't do it, he should, but it was an obvious love-fest.  The Clintons helped him get elected, and now he's going to set her up to be elected.  I know that sounds crass, but I don't mean it that way.  I want Hillary to run.  I want her to get all the help from Obama she can get because it will take holding the Democratic [Obama's] coalition together to win in 2016.  Obama all but assured voters that he's OK with her succeeding her.

I don't believe they are close friends, but I do believe they are colleagues  and their desire is to make the 2016 run as strong as possible, not only for Hillary, but for the country..  

The interview will complicate the donor situation.  No one will be able to raise money for a long time, especially since Obama clearly had decided to endorse her for all intents and purposes.  I even think it might be hard for Republicans to get big donors.  Hillary is a very popular politician, both here in the US and in the world.  

She is also someone that Republicans have been lavishing with praise, and even if they begin to take it all back when she announces, those clips can be resurrected in campaign ads in a general election campaign.  All things being equal, I can't imagine any problem Independents might have with her.  She is the natural successor at this point.  

The only reason she might not run would be a change of heart, her health, or some catastrophe in her life.  Otherwise, she is running.  As a country we'll be the losers if that happened.

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Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#7 Themis

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:44 AM

View PostCait, on 28 January 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

The only reason she might not run would be a change of heart, her health, or some catastrophe in her life.  Otherwise, she is running.  As a country we'll be the losers if that happened.

Not clear if you mean we'd be the losers if she did run or she didn't...

If her health is up to it, I hope she runs.  Otherwise it's a future of books, speaking, maybe playing a part in Bill's Global Initiative and such.  Not that there's anything wrong with that if she's ready to be a little less busy.
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#8 SparkyCola

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:12 AM

I have to admit I'll be slightly surprised if she runs - but if she does I really hope she wins. I think she'd make an excellent Pres.

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#9 Godeskian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:46 AM

Quote

SHOULD she even if she does not want to? for the ladies? for the nation?

The only thing I find marginally more disturbing that someone who wants power enough to run for the kind of high office that is the President of the United States, is someone running who doesn't want it but thinks she has to because of her gender, or because her fans demand it.

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#10 Bobby

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:01 AM

I voted for her in the Democratic primary back in 2008 so I hope she runs.  Run, Hillary, run!

Yeah, the Republican politicians are praising her. I heard Newt Gingrich of all people praise her.  I think she's a pragmatist.  Her approval rating is around 67% the last I heard.  

They will definitely try to trot out the age angle against her, even Democrats.  It won't work for Republicans though because all anyone has to do is bring up the fact the man who's policies are supposedly the inspiration for the modern Republicans was her age when he became President, not to mention they ran John McCain. Republicans made fun of Obama by talking about how some people treated him like a messiah, Reagan was the same for Republican yuppies in the 1980s.  Plus, it will just be another thing where people will see Hillary as getting "dismissed" because of ageism, a lot of people claimed she was a victim of sexism in the primary against Obama, and I think she was but only to a very small degree.

It will be the same thing if Chris Christie runs if he hasn't lost a lot of weight.  They'll say he can't control what he puts in his mouth, no self control, so why should he we expect him to restrain himself and exercise good judgement when it comes to the office and powers that go with the presidency.  Nevermind his record as governor, it will be dirty politics as usual.

Edited by Bobby, 28 January 2013 - 10:03 AM.


#11 Cait

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:55 AM

View PostThemis, on 28 January 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

View PostCait, on 28 January 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

The only reason she might not run would be a change of heart, her health, or some catastrophe in her life.  Otherwise, she is running.  As a country we'll be the losers if that happened.

Not clear if you mean we'd be the losers if she did run or she didn't...

Sorry for the confusion.  I think she would be good for the country so, we'd lose out if she didn't sun.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#12 Lin731

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

I have mixed feelings about this, I really do. Not because of Hillary Clinton but because of the country we live in and the nomination process that gave us Obama. It left a bad taste in my mouth and it left me feeling rather jaded about where women really are (progress wise) in this country. The sexism and nastiness of that process really left me wondering if we have enough grownups in this country to elect a woman for president. Just in watching the political discourse over the past 4 years makes me question if she's electable in a country that is back to debating whether women have the right to control their own reproductive lives.
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#13 Christopher

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:55 AM

View PostLin731, on 28 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Just in watching the political discourse over the past 4 years makes me question if she's electable in a country that is back to debating whether women have the right to control their own reproductive lives.

But remember, the candidates who made the most brazenly offensive statements about rape, like Todd Akin, all lost what were otherwise highly winnable races, because their antediluvian sexism motivated women (and rational men) to go to the polls and vote against them. So I'd say the electoral power of women is undeniable now.
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#14 Lin731

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

Quote

But remember, the candidates who made the most brazenly offensive statements about rape, like Todd Akin, all lost what were otherwise highly winnable races, because their antediluvian sexism motivated women (and rational men) to go to the polls and vote against them. So I'd say the electoral power of women is undeniable now.

This is true but there's a big difference on the offensive scale between those rape comments and te sexism in general terms in this country (and I don't just speak about men here). Just as there are women who don't beleive in an acception for rape, there are also women who don't beleive a woman has the temperment to run the country. You had a black man with little experience running against a woman with more experience in just about every way, in a country that is known for it's racist views (some blatant and some unconsious)...Who won that nomination and how much trashing was done to her by members or her OWN party? There are many folks in this country that felt she had no business doing anything but taking on some President's wife cause, for her husbands term in office. There were many who said "If she wants to lead, than let her run for office" and many of those were outraged when she did run and won. I think the GOP would go after her to a vicious degree. The only reason they "liked" her for a while was to try and seem sympathic to Dem women who were ticked off at the shoddy way her own party treated her.
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#15 Cait

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:51 PM

View PostChristopher, on 28 January 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

So I'd say the electoral power of women is undeniable now.

Agreed.  And, I'm not suggesting that most women are Democrats, because that's not the case by a long shot.  But, I do believe that the 2012 campaigns, and the continuing craziness on women's reproductive health in State Houses has unified a large women's voting block.  Nominating a woman for President in 2016 could continue to strengthen that voting block.  Sort of have a cascading effect from 2012 into 2016 & 2020.  

It doesn't hurt that Hillary is as popular as she is now, and she certainly has the resume for the job.  She took all her negatives and smashed them over the past 4 years.  She was seen as power hungry, with no sense of humor and disconnected and unrelatable to the voters.  All death knells to her candidacy in 2008. But now, that image has been transformed.  She not only has the resume and qualifications, she now has the image.  

Now, I'm not suggesting she would be elected by acclaim, but I am saying that there has been a remarkable transformation and it shows in her numbers.   We'll see how she does over the next few years to keep those numbers.  If she does, she'll not only run, she'll win.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#16 Cait

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostLin731, on 28 January 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

You had a black man with little experience running against a woman with more experience in just about every way, in a country that is known for it's racist views (some blatant and some unconscious ...Who won that nomination and how much trashing was done to her by members or her OWN party?  

Damn good point skippy....;)

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#17 gsmonks

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:53 PM

View PostLin731, on 28 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

I have mixed feelings about this, I really do. Not because of Hillary Clinton but because of the country we live in and the nomination process that gave us Obama. It left a bad taste in my mouth and it left me feeling rather jaded about where women really are (progress wise) in this country. The sexism and nastiness of that process really left me wondering if we have enough grownups in this country to elect a woman for president. Just in watching the political discourse over the past 4 years makes me question if she's electable in a country that is back to debating whether women have the right to control their own reproductive lives.

It's still a good ol' boys club. The behind-the-scenes views of a good many politicians is repugnant. What they say between themselves and the pablum they dish out to the public are so often diametric opposites. More than a few Republicans have been heard calling Obama the "n" word. A few of them have even been caught out. But the Democrats have had behind-the-scenes moments that have been, shall we say, just as enlightening.

In Hillary's case, I think Obama would endorse her bid for the White House, which would go a long way to silencing the misogynists in the Democrat camp. One of the reasons I'd like to see her get the top job is for her to have a chance to give the Democratic rug a damned good whacking and send the good ol' boys flying into the dustbin where they belong.
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#18 Lin731

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

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In Hillary's case, I think Obama would endorse her bid for the White House, which would go a long way to silencing the misogynists in the Democrat camp. One of the reasons I'd like to see her get the top job is for her to have a chance to give the Democratic rug a damned good whacking and send the good ol' boys flying into the dustbin where they belong.

That's assuming his endorsement is something she'd want. We have no idea how the next 4 years will play out. We have the gun control issue on the radar, we have Obamacare coming on line...these two issues alone are poking a stick in the beehive. Whoever seeks the nomination may be running away from Obama, not sidling up to him.

Beleive me I'd LOVED to see that rug ripped out myself.
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#19 gsmonks

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

View PostLin731, on 28 January 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Quote

In Hillary's case, I think Obama would endorse her bid for the White House, which would go a long way to silencing the misogynists in the Democrat camp. One of the reasons I'd like to see her get the top job is for her to have a chance to give the Democratic rug a damned good whacking and send the good ol' boys flying into the dustbin where they belong.

That's assuming his endorsement is something she'd want. We have no idea how the next 4 years will play out. We have the gun control issue on the radar, we have Obamacare coming on line...these two issues alone are poking a stick in the beehive. Whoever seeks the nomination may be running away from Obama, not sidling up to him.

Beleive me I'd LOVED to see that rug ripped out myself.

I've put my trust in Obama because he's wily enough to keep the creeps and the Dixiecrats at arm's length. The Dixiecrats can't pander while there's an African-American in the White House to steal their thunder, and while the creeps are still at it, their doings get highlighted by their near-isolation. Most voters don't realise it, but Obama has done a masterful job of sticking it to the creeps by hiring talent from across the floor, under the guise of being "bi-partisan".

Even if Hillary runs on being opposed to Obama, you can bet that her core principles won't change, and will resonate with voters regardless. Plus the dirt the Neo-Cons in the Republican camp pulled during the Clinton administration will resurface. If Hillary runs, I'd lay odds that Whitewater will be the Republicans' Waterloo.
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#20 Cait

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:32 PM

View PostLin731, on 28 January 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Quote

In Hillary's case, I think Obama would endorse her bid for the White House, which would go a long way to silencing the misogynists in the Democrat camp. One of the reasons I'd like to see her get the top job is for her to have a chance to give the Democratic rug a damned good whacking and send the good ol' boys flying into the dustbin where they belong.

That's assuming his endorsement is something she'd want. We have no idea how the next 4 years will play out. We have the gun control issue on the radar, we have Obamacare coming on line...these two issues alone are poking a stick in the beehive. Whoever seeks the nomination may be running away from Obama, not sidling up to him.

Beleive me I'd LOVED to see that rug ripped out myself.

I think that her resigning now and leaving the Obama Administration will give her a lot of cover if it ends up that Obama isn't an endorsement she wants.  I think it matters now that he endorses her.  He's saying, she did a good job and I know it.  If the next four aren't so good, HIllary wasn't there or part of it.  It gives her distance and she still gets the President on record regarding how well she did from 2009-2013.  It's almost the best of both worlds.

I was watching Morning Joe this morning, and Joe Scarborough brought up a good point   If I were Joe Biden, I would not like that interview at all. But then, Joe [Biden] is going to be tethered to the Obama Administration's record [and his own] no matter what.  He won't have the best of both worlds.  He's going to be held accountable for any mistakes.  Sort of a "guilt by association" thing.  

Of course Biden  might also get the sunshine if there are important positives over the next four years.  But, that is a riskier position to be in politically re: 2016.  He has to wait at least 2-3 years to form a campaign strategy because he's in an on-going administration.  Hillary on the other hand, can begin whenever she wants.  Her record and accomplishments are a matter of record.  There won't be any more news [of any significance] due to decisions made while in office.

I wish Biden were younger and not stuck in office, I like him so much and fear he won't be able to get any traction for 2016 because of Hillary.  For her, it's not like 2008 when she was touted as the "presumed nominee".  It was a media creation in 2008, and she still had many problems with her negatives.  All of that is changed.  She actually is the presumptive candidate.  Ask any Democrat.  Everyone is just waiting for her to decide.  

For Joe Biden, [who again I love and have voted for in primaries] the parade is going to pass him by if Hillary runs, and that is a shame.  He has had a long career of public service and deserves a shot.

Edited by Cait, 28 January 2013 - 05:34 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html




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