Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Car Park Skeleton is King Richard III

2013 Richard III skeleton archaeology uk history leicester car park

  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#21 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

^I saw that part of the documentary the other night - it was pretty fascinating. I think the most compelling bit is the jawline - you can see the similarity to the portrait just from the skeleton!

Sparky
Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#22 Sci-Fi Girl

Sci-Fi Girl

    Help me save Dark Matter!

  • Islander
  • 4,959 posts

Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

View PostNonny, on 05 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 05 February 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

View PostNonny, on 04 February 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Interesting!  Josephine Tey comes to mind.   :)

No kidding!  I was thinking the exact same thing!  :cool:

Time for a reread! :cool:

Or a listen, the audiobook is read by Derek Jacobi!  :cool:

SFG
"A song is like a picture of a bird in flight; the bird was moving before the picture was taken, and no doubt continued after."   - Pete Seeger

Pete Seeger's life was a picture of an idea in flight, and the idea will continue long after.  As long as there are people with goodness and courage in their hearts, the idea will continue forever.

Posted Image   Posted Image


Check out my music threads:

Beautiful Music: Folk, Acoustic, Traditional, and World

A Celebration of Song Lyrics, New and Old: Just the poetry  (to include those with different musical tastes than me)

When Sci Fi Actors Sing

#23 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:00 AM

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 09 February 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on 05 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 05 February 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

View PostNonny, on 04 February 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Interesting!  Josephine Tey comes to mind.   :)

No kidding!  I was thinking the exact same thing!  :cool:

Time for a reread! :cool:

Or a listen, the audiobook is read by Derek Jacobi!  :cool:

SFG

Sweet!   :happy:
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#24 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

View Postgsmonks, on 05 February 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

Yeah . . . on the news just now they were talking about giving the old sod a "proper" burial.

Considering the type of guy he was, shouldn't he be buried under a latrine or something?
Shakespeare's Richard III is largely to blame for Richard's bad press. You have to remember he wrote it for Elizabeth I, a scion of the winners in that war. History really is written by the winners. Turns out Richard wasn't the man or king Shakespeare made him out to be.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#25 Elara

Elara

    Feel the silence of the moonlight.

  • Watchdog
  • 2,901 posts

Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

View PostRhea, on 14 February 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

View Postgsmonks, on 05 February 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

Yeah . . . on the news just now they were talking about giving the old sod a "proper" burial.

Considering the type of guy he was, shouldn't he be buried under a latrine or something?
Shakespeare's Richard III is largely to blame for Richard's bad press. You have to remember he wrote it for Elizabeth I, a scion of the winners in that war. History really is written by the winners. Turns out Richard wasn't the man or king Shakespeare made him out to be.

Yep.

You've just killed the King, what are you going to do? Say what a great guy he was, or are you going to destroy his reputation?

It's just as possible that Henry VII killed the boys. Or the boys were smuggled out by Richard's people to keep them safe, and lived long happy lives. This may be something that we will never know.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#26 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,214 posts

Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:45 AM

BBC Article: DNA confirms bones are the King's

Quote

A skeleton found beneath a Leicester car park has been confirmed as that of English king Richard III.

Experts from the University of Leicester said DNA from the bones matched that of descendants of the monarch's family.

Lead archaeologist Richard Buckley, from the University of Leicester, told a press conference to applause: "Beyond reasonable doubt it's Richard."

Richard, killed in battle in 1485, will be reinterred in Leicester Cathedral.

If his descendants were not a match would that automatically prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that it was not Richard?

I don't it would. For the vast majority of the last 500 years paternity was assumed. How many 'average' generations is that, and chances for paternity to be wrong (assuming it wasn't wrong right at the start). I suppose one could also test those with a direct maternal lineage from Richard's close female relatives, preferable a sister.

Edited by sierraleone, 15 February 2013 - 07:45 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#27 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:50 AM

View PostElara, on 14 February 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

View PostRhea, on 14 February 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

View Postgsmonks, on 05 February 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

Yeah . . . on the news just now they were talking about giving the old sod a "proper" burial.

Considering the type of guy he was, shouldn't he be buried under a latrine or something?
Shakespeare's Richard III is largely to blame for Richard's bad press. You have to remember he wrote it for Elizabeth I, a scion of the winners in that war. History really is written by the winners. Turns out Richard wasn't the man or king Shakespeare made him out to be.

Yep.

You've just killed the King, what are you going to do? Say what a great guy he was, or are you going to destroy his reputation?

It's just as possible that Henry VII killed the boys. Or the boys were smuggled out by Richard's people to keep them safe, and lived long happy lives. This may be something that we will never know.

I've read so many different theories on how or even  if the boys died.   So without a written confession somewhere we likely will never know for sure and only have the speculation  forever.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#28 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:26 PM

Sierra- they weren't expecting a match because DNA degrades after a few hundred years (as I understand it) so it was a bonus really.
Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#29 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:25 PM

View PostNonny, on 10 February 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 09 February 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on 05 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 05 February 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

View PostNonny, on 04 February 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Interesting!  Josephine Tey comes to mind.   :)

No kidding!  I was thinking the exact same thing!  :cool:

Time for a reread! :cool:

Or a listen, the audiobook is read by Derek Jacobi!  :cool:

SFG

Sweet!   :happy:

It is now on my audible.com Wish List, and will be acquired once I learn how to sync new downloads to my iPod.

Did you know that somebody has written a mystery series with Josephine Tey as the main character?  When I looked for The Daughter of Time, I was confused by three unfamiliar Tey selections, until I realized that I had not specified author.  Davina Porter, my favorite reader, reads them, so I added the first one to my Wish List too.   :)
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#30 Mary Rose

Mary Rose

    Charlie's Asthmatic Angel

  • Moderator
  • 22,331 posts

Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:30 PM

View PostTricia, on 15 February 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

View PostElara, on 14 February 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

View PostRhea, on 14 February 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

View Postgsmonks, on 05 February 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

Yeah . . . on the news just now they were talking about giving the old sod a "proper" burial.

Considering the type of guy he was, shouldn't he be buried under a latrine or something?
Shakespeare's Richard III is largely to blame for Richard's bad press. You have to remember he wrote it for Elizabeth I, a scion of the winners in that war. History really is written by the winners. Turns out Richard wasn't the man or king Shakespeare made him out to be.

Yep.

You've just killed the King, what are you going to do? Say what a great guy he was, or are you going to destroy his reputation?

It's just as possible that Henry VII killed the boys. Or the boys were smuggled out by Richard's people to keep them safe, and lived long happy lives. This may be something that we will never know.

I've read so many different theories on how or even  if the boys died.   So without a written confession somewhere we likely will never know for sure and only have the speculation  forever.

Actually two male skeletons were found in the 1600s when the Tower was getting work done on it.  They were the right size and condition that it was generally assumed the boys bodies had been found at last.  I tend to agree.  They were given a royal funeral.  So, with that the fact that the boys died is a certainty.  Who killed them is another matter.
Mary Rose, Official Missionary for the Church of Beka angst.  Please join us for worship at the EI fanfic board.  Jill-- on what my name badge should say.
Proud Andromeda and Forever Knight fanfic writer
    Posted Image           Posted Image           Posted Image
Proud parent of thriving Beka and Tracy muses
Posted Image

#31 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:25 AM

Quote

Did you know that somebody has written a mystery series with Josephine Tey as the main character?

Thanks for this Nonny-  my mum loves Josephine Tey and historical crime fiction, so I've just ordered that for her birthday :D

Here it is in case anyone's curious: An Expert In Murder by Nicola Upson (first in a series)

Sparky
Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#32 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:51 AM

Mary Rose--

I do remember that now that you posted that.  

I might be thinking more of the mystery of who killed them or ordered it done.  Seems like I remember an episode of that series Leonard Nimoy used to narrate "In Search Of" about this but I could be wrong. :unsure:

Thanks for the book recommendation, Sparky and Nonny. :)

ETA--I seem to forget more things as I get older.  Or those details get filed away and my 'data retrieval system' ;) isn't as fast as it used to be :)

Edited by Tricia, 17 February 2013 - 09:07 AM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#33 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:56 AM

You're welcome, Sparky.  I myself am absolutely thrilled to add a new series to my mounting TBR pile.    :freakoutnonny:  :lol:
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#34 Mary Rose

Mary Rose

    Charlie's Asthmatic Angel

  • Moderator
  • 22,331 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:36 AM

^^Heh, heh, Ain't that true for all of us, Tricia.  And you're right about the fact that we'll probably never know who really killed them  Henry VII had just as much to gain from their deaths as Richard III.  Plus, whoever did it could claim it was a patriotic act since in the past when the king was a minor things didn't tend to go well.  I'm thinking of the minorities of Richard II and Henry VI here.
Mary Rose, Official Missionary for the Church of Beka angst.  Please join us for worship at the EI fanfic board.  Jill-- on what my name badge should say.
Proud Andromeda and Forever Knight fanfic writer
    Posted Image           Posted Image           Posted Image
Proud parent of thriving Beka and Tracy muses
Posted Image

#35 Elara

Elara

    Feel the silence of the moonlight.

  • Watchdog
  • 2,901 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:33 PM

Quote

Henry VII had just as much to gain from their deaths as Richard III.

Agreed, Mary Rose. In those times, staying alive in the monarchy was no easy task.

Of course, the two found in 1674 might not be the Princes. From Wikipedia:

Quote

In 1789, workmen carrying out repairs in St. George's Chapel, Windsor, rediscovered and accidentally broke into the vault of Edward IV and Queen Elizabeth Woodville, discovering in the process what appeared to be a small adjoining vault. This vault was found to contain the coffins of two unidentified children. However, no inspection or examination was carried out and the tomb was resealed. The tomb was inscribed with the names of two of Edward IV's children: George, 1st Duke of Bedford who had died at the age of 2, and Mary of York who had died at the age of 14; both had predeceased the King. During the excavation for the royal tomb house for King George III under the Wolsey tomb-house in 1810–13 two lead coffins clearly labelled as George Plantagenet and Mary Plantagenet were discovered and moved into the adjoining vault of Edward IV's but at the time no effort was made to identify the two lead coffins already in the vault.

Where they are, who killed them, will probably remain a mystery. Unless the Queen gives permission, or her successor, then we might find out who is in the lead coffins.
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#36 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:02 PM

View PostNonny, on 16 February 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on 10 February 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 09 February 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on 05 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

View PostSci-Fi Girl, on 05 February 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

View PostNonny, on 04 February 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Interesting!  Josephine Tey comes to mind.   :)

No kidding!  I was thinking the exact same thing!  :cool:

Time for a reread! :cool:

Or a listen, the audiobook is read by Derek Jacobi!  :cool:

SFG

Sweet!   :happy:

It is now on my audible.com Wish List, and will be acquired once I learn how to sync new downloads to my iPod.

Did you know that somebody has written a mystery series with Josephine Tey as the main character?  When I looked for The Daughter of Time, I was confused by three unfamiliar Tey selections, until I realized that I had not specified author.  Davina Porter, my favorite reader, reads them, so I added the first one to my Wish List too.   :)

Having Derek Jacobi read Daughter of Time to me is a distinct pleasure.   :happy:

View PostSparkyCola, on 17 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Quote

Did you know that somebody has written a mystery series with Josephine Tey as the main character?

Thanks for this Nonny-  my mum loves Josephine Tey and historical crime fiction, so I've just ordered that for her birthday :D

Here it is in case anyone's curious: An Expert In Murder by Nicola Upson (first in a series)

And when I finish Daughter of Time, I'll listen to Davina Porter read this.   :happy:
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#37 FnlPrblm

FnlPrblm
  • Administrator
  • 12,503 posts

Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:32 AM

Update!: on all the recent digs and findings
"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes: The Beryl Coronet

The Boscombe Valley Mystery: "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing." --- Ralph Waldo Emerson 'Art,' 1841

"Such welcome and unwelcome things at once, 'Tis hard to reconcile." --- Macbeth IV.III.138-9


LauraBertram.net

"Once in one's life, for one mortal moment, one must make a grab for immortality; if not, one has not lived." -- Sylvester Stallone

Time to eat all your words, swallow your pride, open your eyes...Sowing the Seeds of Love - Tears4Fears



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 2013, Richard III, skeleton, archaeology, uk history, leicester, car park

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users