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Physicist, Claims Teaching Creationism Is Child Abuse

Creationism science

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#81 QueenTiye

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostElara, on 01 March 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:


Don't blur the line, because once you do, anyone, and any wrongful act, is fair game. Once you have made the word lighter, it stops carrying the weight that it had and an abuser goes free.

Entirely endorse!

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#82 Nonny

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:22 PM

View PostElara, on 01 March 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Here is the problem, as I see it. Teaching creationism is ruled to be abuse, what's next?

I really don't want to read this entire thread from the beginning, but isn't it based on somebody saying that teaching creationism is abuse? Not asking that it be ruled abuse in any legal way?  Okay, I'll reread the original article, but that's it.
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#83 Elara

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:41 PM

Sorry, Nonny, I should have said: If teaching creationism is decided, then ruled to be abuse.

The thing is, today's "I think it's abuse" is tomorrow's "We should pass a law that it's abuse". Some people get carried away with lots of silly ideas.
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#84 Balderdash

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:31 AM

View PostElara, on 01 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Sorry, Nonny, I should have said: If teaching creationism is decided, then ruled to be abuse.

The thing is, today's "I think it's abuse" is tomorrow's "We should pass a law that it's abuse". Some people get carried away with lots of silly ideas.

That's true enough, just look at all of the laws that Creationists are trying to get passed, trying to stuff their insane ideas down our throats as
laws.  Yep, happens all of the time.

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#85 Elara

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

I 100% agree with that, Baldy. I don't want to see any insane idea turned into law, period.

We all know what true abuse is, it's being beaten for just existing, it's having a childhood innocence taken forcefully, it's constantly hearing that you are worthless, it's having any kind of teaching beaten into you, etc... that is abuse. Teaching creationism, and denying science, is simply... sticking one's head in the sand and hoping no one tells you that you are being foolish. I just can't call that abuse, I know abuse, and that is not it.

This is where the government should step in (again, I thought all schools, including home and church, had to follow a certain curriculum) and make sure that children are honestly taught science.
El
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#86 SparkyCola

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:59 PM

^ I agree, but I also consider it ethically and morally wrong to teach creationism as science to anyone, let alone children. It's also simply, factually wrong.

Sparky

Edited by SparkyCola, 02 March 2013 - 02:59 PM.

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#87 Nonny

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 07:53 AM

When paired with threats of hellfire for daring to so much consider something besides the pathetic lies being crammed into your tiny, child head, yes, it is abuse.  And what are the odds that, in a religious school, it is not?
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#88 Balthamos

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 08:21 AM

It doesn't matter what you're teaching, the above would be abuse in any subject even if you were teaching the truth.

#89 Tricia

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 08:49 AM

IF that is the way it is done then it is abuse.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Nonny}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

But I don't think it can be said that all church schools do that.  Only some and I think it would depend on the individuals involved as well as the individual schools.  More likely to happen that only way or the other is taught as far as creationism or evolution in private church schools or that pressure would be placed upon the student to believe only one way.

Plus the time period we are talking about because some things were more 'acceptable'  or maybe the better word is 'allowed'? at the time but are no longer ignored ...or shouldn't be. Does not make it any more right but also does not mean that it is currently ongoing.  I don't know what goes on in Catholic schools currently or any other church schools (charter or private)

I can only speak as to what I know and my info comes from a friend's children who go to a Lutheran school. There are no threats of 'believe or else' there and she has a child who is constantly asking difficult questions in religion class but still gets honor roll. (including in that class)

Edited by Tricia, 03 March 2013 - 01:34 PM.

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#90 Elara

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostNonny, on 03 March 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

When paired with threats of hellfire for daring to so much consider something besides the pathetic lies being crammed into your tiny, child head, yes, it is abuse.  And what are the odds that, in a religious school, it is not?

{{{{{{Nonny}}}}}}

Absolutely, which is why I said:

View PostElara, on 02 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

We all know what true abuse is, it's being beaten for just existing, it's having a childhood innocence taken forcefully, it's constantly hearing that you are worthless, it's having any kind of teaching beaten into you, etc... that is abuse. Teaching creationism, and denying science, is simply... sticking one's head in the sand and hoping no one tells you that you are being foolish. I just can't call that abuse, I know abuse, and that is not it.

My ex's family is Catholic. Out of him and his six siblings, only one remained in the Catholic faith.The main reason for the others leaving was because of the punishments the nuns seemed to enjoy giving out. One of the boys' wrist was broken because a nun hit him so hard.
When I was little, "spankings" were still in practice. In first grade a classmate was so severely "spanked" he was out of school for more than a week while he healed. Nothing was done to the principal that gave him the "spanking".
These things are abuse, not teaching. If any of that is still going on, that is abuse.
El
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#91 gsmonks

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 04:20 AM

View Postsierraleone, on 15 February 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

Is it weird that I the thought that just popped into my head is that the greatest, and saddest, thing about children is they accept the world as it is first presented to them?

That depends entirely on the child in question.

I was "taught", in school (by Mrs John Little back around 1960 at Ridgeway Annex in North Vancouver, BC) that the Earth was only 2000 years old. I knew it wasn't true because my older sister had dinosaur books. I had seen the King Tut exhibit at the old Carnegie Lycaeum (library- then a museum) at that time. Though I was six at the time, I was able to make up my own mind.

This was back in the days when Bible reading, prayers, and God Save The Queen were mandatory.

The number of believers, if you were to poll the class, was probably the same as a polling of adults. I don't think age has anything to do with credulity or its lack.

Churches, priests and nuns used to creep me out as a child.

People are either born credulous or they ain't.
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#92 sierraleone

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 10:48 AM

View Postgsmonks, on 18 May 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

View Postsierraleone, on 15 February 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

Is it weird that I the thought that just popped into my head is that the greatest, and saddest, thing about children is they accept the world as it is first presented to them?

That depends entirely on the child in question.

I was "taught", in school (by Mrs John Little back around 1960 at Ridgeway Annex in North Vancouver, BC) that the Earth was only 2000 years old. I knew it wasn't true because my older sister had dinosaur books. I had seen the King Tut exhibit at the old Carnegie Lycaeum (library- then a museum) at that time. Though I was six at the time, I was able to make up my own mind.

This was back in the days when Bible reading, prayers, and God Save The Queen were mandatory.

The number of believers, if you were to poll the class, was probably the same as a polling of adults. I don't think age has anything to do with credulity or its lack.

Churches, priests and nuns used to creep me out as a child.

People are either born credulous or they ain't.

One could argue that the information regarding Earth's age was first presented to you in those books about Dinosaurs and/or the King Tut exhibit. Not saying that children can't be credulous.

I read once about 'experiments' on babies to test their naive knowledge/sense of physics. In general, babies would look longer at demonstrations that appeared to defy basic knowledge/sense of physics (such as gravity). One could view the babies subjecting the defying scenario to more scrutiny to a kind of credulousness in a way. They may either want to figure out the trick and/or how this 'exception' fits into the other naive physics rules already presented/established to them.
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