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I love my senators

politics gun control Feinstein California Senate 2013 Barbara Boxer

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#21 Nonny

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 06:18 AM

View PostKota, on 24 March 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on 23 March 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

Of course she didn't.  He is a stupid person, he asked a question either in ignorance of how she became prominent politically or deliberately meant to bait her.  The question deserved no answer, but the jerk who asked it deserved having his head handed to him, and she did a mighty fine job of it.


Are you saying Senator Ted Cruz – you know, the Harvard/Princeton-trained lawyer who’s argued and won cases before the US Supreme Court is stupid?

If the question is, do I think Ted Cruz is stupid, the answer is yes.  There is a certain puctuational ambiguity here, so I'll also answer the other possible question and say, yes, a portion of it.
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#22 Kota

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:59 AM

It wasn't a fair fight, Ted Cruz being a Harvard educated lawyer and Feinstein a career politician who legislates off of emotion, not fact.

If this were the other way around, if Feinstein were the Harvard educated lawyer, that's all you'd hear about. It does not matter how intelligent someone in the GOP is proven to be. Ted Cruz could literally be today's Albert Einstein and it wouldn't matter to the propagandists.

#23 Nonny

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:05 PM

View PostKota, on 25 March 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Ted Cruz could literally be today's Albert Einstein and it wouldn't matter to the propagandists.

If Ted Cruz were today's Albert Einstein, he wouldn't be a nasty, patronizing, aggressive bully.
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#24 Nonny

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:05 PM

Meanwhile, I love my senators.   :)
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#25 Nonny

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:50 PM

The measure of Ted Cruz:  http://www.rawstory....omething-right/
Ted Cruz: Joe McCarthy comparisons mean ‘we’re doing something right’

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Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) says that he must be “doing something right” when critics compare him to Sen. Joe McCarthy, a Republican politician who was officially censured in the 1950s for using false accusations of communism to smear opponents.
In a February report, The New York Times noted that Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) had compared Cruz’ tactics to McCarthyism after he made the baseless suggestion that then-Secretary of Defense nominee Chuck Hagel was being paid by North Korea...
But in an interview published on Sunday, Cruz told The Dallas Morning News that he took the comparison to McCarthy as a badge of honor....

Ted Cruz has an interesting take on honor.   :rolleyes:
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#26 BklnScott

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:52 PM

View PostKota, on 25 March 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

It wasn't a fair fight, Ted Cruz being a Harvard educated lawyer and Feinstein a career politician who legislates off of emotion, not fact.

Feinstein went to Stanford.  It is not a charm school.

Certainly, Cruz's fans on the far-right must have been impressed by his performance, but nobody else was.  Indeed, his treatment of "emotional" women like Feinstein isn't likely to help the GOP shed its image as a bunch of misogynist cave men.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#27 Cait

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

View PostBklnScott, on 25 March 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

   Indeed, his treatment of "emotional" women like Feinstein isn't likely to help the GOP shed its image as a bunch of misogynist cave men.

*sputter* Ya think?!

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#28 scherzo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:07 PM

View PostNonny, on 25 March 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Meanwhile, I love my senators.   :)
They're morons.

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Indeed, his treatment of "emotional" women like Feinstein isn't likely to help the GOP shed its image as a bunch of misogynist cave men.
What would be the point of trying to shed the image of misogynist, when the people making the charge define "misogyny" as anything a republican male says or does?  Especially when these very same righteous crusaders openly embrace the likes of Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, Bill Maher, and Ed Schultz, who can barely contain their contempt for women. The selective outrage gets a workout no matter what flavor of "victim" is on the menu. If Chuck Hagel was black, Cruz' humiliation of him would have been racist. It's a tedious game...but an effective one, in a country that's mostly replaced critical thinking with Pavlovian conformity. Seems to me Cruz' time is better spent continuing to defend our Constitution, than worrying about the chronic hypocrisy and ignorance of the fully indoctrinated.

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If this were the other way around, if Feinstein were the Harvard educated lawyer, that's all you'd hear about. It does not matter how intelligent someone in the GOP is proven to be.
Feinstein could have stood up and MOONED Ted Cruz, and the indoctrinated would be praising her profound erudition. "Intelligence" is easily achieved on that side of the political aisle. Just parrot the CORRECT opinion...and you're smart and sophisticated! Best part is...you don't actually have to know anything! It's a pretty good deal for the intellectually lazy...and aspiring talk show hosts...
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#29 BklnScott

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:33 PM

View Postscherzo, on 25 March 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

Quote

Indeed, his treatment of "emotional" women like Feinstein isn't likely to help the GOP shed its image as a bunch of misogynist cave men.
What would be the point of trying to shed the image of misogynist, when the people making the charge define "misogyny" as anything a republican male says or does?


To win elections, presumably.  

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If Chuck Hagel was black, Cruz' humiliation of him would have been racist.


Instead of merely McCarthyist.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#30 Mark

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:00 PM

Mark: Speaking strictly as a neutral observer (although I do admit to having a bit of equal contempt for both liberal and conservative politicians)...I watched that little skirmish between Feinstein and Cruz the day it happened. Cruz was being condescending in tone, and in his overall approach while addressing Feinstein. Cruz came off (to me, at least) as being arrogant and disrespectful. Feinstein recognized that too, apparently, and became red-faced with anger as she answered him firmly, but pretty calmly. I was surprised just how well she kept her obviously up-welling emotions in-check during the proceeding. It wasn't until after the official hearing was over that she revealed to a reporter (and the rest of us) why she became angered during Cruz' comments and questioning. At the time, I thought her anger was totally justified...although I would never want any politician to become so angered during a hearing that it would detract from, and possibly change the overall outcome of the hearing. Of course, if Feinstein's anger somehow detracted from the hearing, she was no less guilty than Cruz himself, for being an arrogant ass. His position, questions and viewpoint, didn't require him to be disrespectful, arrogant, and condescending toward Sen. Feinstein.

TPM In an interview with The Dallas Morning News published Sunday, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) said his commitment to the Constitution led him to vigorously question earlier this month an assault weapons ban put forward by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA).
Later in the article..."One of the principle responsibilities that I take most seriously in this position is the responsibility to respectfully but forcibly raise serious questions about the constitutionality of legislation before this body."

See, that's where Cruz erred...he didn't appear to be "respectful" at all when he "vigorously questioned",  and "forcibly raised his serious questions about the constitutionality of legislation". I don't think Feinstein was angered so much by his questions of constitutionality, but the way in which this new, Junior Senator, was addressing her (a Senior Senator)...as if she had no experience at all with the constitution. His condescending tone, appeared arrogant and disrespectful toward his fellow Senator. If Cruz wants a fruitful career as a politician, he needs to work on his manners and at least APPEAR to be more humble when addressing his colleagues. If he wants his opinions, and the views he represents to be respected by those he's addressing, he has to earn it! He didn't earn any points of respect either for himself, or the views he was trying to convey by coming off as an arrogant, condescending, upstart senator. If he'd been addressing me, he surely wouldn't have earned any respect from me that day! Instead, Cruz may have possibly (and certainly needlessly) made Feinstein a new political enemy...where as an experienced, less arrogant politician, may have maneuvered himself (and the viewpoint he represented) into a position of gaining respect, and perhaps at least more support.

As to the Constitutionality of an assault weapons ban...I can't find anything in the Constitution which allows citizens to keep and bear assault weapons, grenades, torpedoes, tanks, mustard gas, nuclear weapons, or any other weapon of mass destruction. The Constitution only says we have the right to keep and bear arms...it doesn't designate which ones. If Cruz, or any of you want to get technical about it...when the Constitution was written, about the only arms the people could keep and bear were swords, single-shot muskets, and single-shot pistols. With the exceptions of canons, that's about all that existed in the way of arms...and I don't think the average American could have afforded to buy, keep and bear their own canon back in the day.

So does putting even a small limit on the kind of weaponry we are allowed to keep and bear really infringe on our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms? I don't think it does...although I know there are many who believe it does. That's the reason we have this thing called, "votes" in this country.

Edited by Mark, 26 March 2013 - 03:33 AM.

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#31 scherzo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:38 PM

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As to the Constitutionality of an assault weapons ban...I can't find anything in the Constitution which allows citizens to keep and bear assault weapons, grenades, torpedoes, tanks, mustard gas, nuclear weapons, or any other weapon of mass destruction. The Constitution only says we have the right to keep and bear arms...it doesn't designate which ones.
The problem is, Feinstein  was attempting to broaden the scope of weapons that would fall under the dreaded "assault weapon" banner.  In the process...compel owners of legally purchased firearms to register their guns with the federal government, and impose a $200 tax per weapon. Even if I believed this would reduce crime AT ALL, I'd have issues with this kind of big government edict. At the very least, I'm glad there are voices in the Senate still willing to ask questions about personal freedom.

The "grenades, torpedoes, tanks" argument comes up all the time. I can't blame you if you've never heard that rapid-fire rifles that fire a barrage of bullets with a single trigger pull...have been illegal since 1986. Our news media haven't exactly gone out of their way to present all sides of this debate, but special permits are required to legally buy a true military grade weapon.

Gun rights advocates aren't so naive they can't recognize legislative incrementalism at work.  If you think the people attempting to capitalize on the Sandy Hook Elementary School tragedy will be satisfied with new assault weapons regulations, you haven't been paying attention to the Statist control freak's modus operandi. (take a look at the Mike Bloomberg show in NY for a prime example)
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#32 Mark

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:05 AM

View Postscherzo, on 25 March 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Quote

As to the Constitutionality of an assault weapons ban...I can't find anything in the Constitution which allows citizens to keep and bear assault weapons, grenades, torpedoes, tanks, mustard gas, nuclear weapons, or any other weapon of mass destruction. The Constitution only says we have the right to keep and bear arms...it doesn't designate which ones.
The problem is, Feinstein  was attempting to broaden the scope of weapons that would fall under the dreaded "assault weapon" banner.  In the process...compel owners of legally purchased firearms to register their guns with the federal government, and impose a $200 tax per weapon. Even if I believed this would reduce crime AT ALL, I'd have issues with this kind of big government edict. At the very least, I'm glad there are voices in the Senate still willing to ask questions about personal freedom.

The "grenades, torpedoes, tanks" argument comes up all the time. I can't blame you if you've never heard that rapid-fire rifles that fire a barrage of bullets with a single trigger pull...have been illegal since 1986. Our news media haven't exactly gone out of their way to present all sides of this debate, but special permits are required to legally buy a true military grade weapon.

Gun rights advocates aren't so naive they can't recognize legislative incrementalism at work.  If you think the people attempting to capitalize on the Sandy Hook Elementary School tragedy will be satisfied with new assault weapons regulations, you haven't been paying attention to the Statist control freak's modus operandi. (take a look at the Mike Bloomberg show in NY for a prime example)

Mark: Actually, I am aware that only single shot, or semi-automatic versions of assault rifles are the only legal assault weapons allowed to be owned and operated in the U.S without a special license . However, I'm also aware that modification kits are available online for those types of assault weapons, allowing knowledgeable owners to possibly upgrade those guns to a full automatic. Still, that is not an easy modification for anyone except an experienced gunsmith. Even then, I hear it's a very hard and costly upgrade...but you know there are people doing it with more money than sense.

I'm against any new imposed tax for implementing their current proposed legislation, or broadening the scope of weapons that currently fall under the "assault weapon" classification. Actually, I'm usually against any legislation that doesn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell of being successful once passed. The gun control legislation is not an exception. I don't think any imposed new law would keep determined people from owning, keeping, and purchasing "assault-type weapons".
Look at how successful :sarcasm: the war on drugs has been, for instance. I'm not saying we should legalize ALL currently illegal drugs, but placing millions of American citizens in prison for many years for non-violent crimes involving illegal drugs is insane in my opinion. That mindset and the policies enforcing it hasn't worked at all. The drugs are still as readily available as they always have been...the difference is more people are now in prison, and the American taxpayers have to pay for their costs and upkeep. Meanwhile, the families of all those people have been completely devastated...with children growing up without their mother and/or father, and all the benefits that go with having them.

Similarly, I think new imposed gun control legislation would make criminals out of many current law-abiding U.S. citizens, just as the drug laws have done with too many American citizens...turning a weekend pot smoker into a felon.
I'd rather see programs teaching, and promoting gun safety..THAT should be a mandatory requirement for all current and future owners of guns. I'd also rather see current gun control laws actually enforced, than new ones made! I would like to see a change in the laws surrounding the selling and purchasing of firearms (of any kind) in gun shows. According to the data I've acquired, gun shows account for 40% of the buying and selling of guns in the U.S....yet few (if any) laws are on the books and enforced surrounding this activity. That particular system needs better regulation, in my opinion.

So yeah, I think there has been somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction to the Sandy Hook Elementary tragedy and it has people stirred-up. It's something we as American citizens should look at and analyze carefully before we allow our lawmakers to either create, or dismiss any new legislation.

Edited by Mark, 26 March 2013 - 03:38 AM.

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#33 Nonny

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:37 AM

View Postscherzo, on 25 March 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on 25 March 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Meanwhile, I love my senators.   :)
They're morons.

Are they?  I don't know where you live, so I cannot judge, but if your senators are morons, bummer.  Mine OTOH are paragons of intellect, wit, experience and all kinds of good things.   :)
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#34 Nonny

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:44 AM

View PostMark, on 26 March 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

[... I think there has been somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction to the Sandy Hook Elementary tragedy .....

Imagine what that reaction would be if someone had published pictures of the tiny children's blown apart bodies.
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#35 Nonny

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:47 AM

View Postscherzo, on 25 March 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

If you think the people attempting to capitalize on the Sandy Hook Elementary School tragedy will be satisfied with new assault weapons regulations, you haven't been paying attention to the Statist control freak's modus operandi. (take a look at the Mike Bloomberg show in NY for a prime example)

Change it to sales, and the result is what the tragedy is capitalizing on.
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#36 Nonny

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:51 AM

View PostMark, on 25 March 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

Cruz was being condescending in tone, and in his overall approach while addressing Feinstein. Cruz came off (to me, at least) as being arrogant and disrespectful. Feinstein recognized that too, apparently, and became red-faced with anger as she answered him firmly, but pretty calmly. I was surprised just how well she kept her obviously up-welling emotions in-check during the proceeding.

Does nobody else understand just what Cruz was doing?  And who he was trying to do it to?  And why it was a monstrously ill-conceived move?

If Cruz did not know what pushed Feinstein into prominence, then he is ignorant.  If he knew and tried to make political hay from it, he is a monster.  I have a hard time believing he simply did not know.
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#37 Tricia

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:38 AM

^^^I have to admit that I had forgotten and had to go back to refresh my memory.

I'm not sure what was going on in Ted Cruz's mind as he pursued that particular line but at the very least he was thoughtless.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


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#38 Kota

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

Quote

Are they? I don't know where you live, so I cannot judge, but if your senators are morons, bummer. Mine OTOH are paragons of intellect, wit, experience and all kinds of good things.


As Mayor of San Francisco when the police confided with her facts about a case and requested her to sit on them - keep her mouth shut. She reacted by blabbing every last detail to the public - breaking the trust of the entire police department and pissing off the detectives working the case.


She was and is an idiot!

#39 Kota

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

Quote

Are they? I don't know where you live, so I cannot judge, but if your senators are morons, bummer. Mine OTOH are paragons of intellect, wit, experience and all kinds of good things.


  

#40 Bobby

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:51 PM

Ok, we've established that Nonny thinks her senators are great, others think they are morons.  So how do you guys like YOUR senators, she did ask everyone about their own senators.  This is reached the point of neener neener!  I have Lamar Alexander and Bob Corker.  They are Republicans, par for the course on most issues.  I did learn while doing an assignment for my American Government class that Focus on the Family didn't give Alexander high marks because of some of his positions, so he does have that in his favor!



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