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NC proposes bill to establish a state religion

North carolina Politics Religion Constitution First amendment tenth Amendment 2013

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#21 Cait

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:10 PM

View PostDarthMarley, on 04 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Hey, these kind of conservatives are an embarassment to conservative who actually have informed opinions.
I can admit that among "conservatives" are racists and theocrats looking to piggy-back their pet agenda onto the conservative bandwagon.
Pretty much like there have been socialists and communists doing the same with the liberals.

Well said, and I think I'm going to try and use a different word to describe the ones in the GOP we are really talking about, maybe "reactionaries".  Try and separate them a little from Conservatives or Republicans.  They do in fact have different agendas as you have stated, just like Socialists and Communists did and do in the Democratic Party.  It pays for all of us to be able to distinguish these groups one from another.  Saves us the "all" Republicans or "all" Democrats debate.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#22 DarthMarley

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:18 PM

View PostNonny, on 04 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

View PostDarthMarley, on 04 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Pretty much like there have been socialists and communists doing the same with the liberals.

Yeah, darn that socialist who wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, as it should be.

Socialists, progressives, and labor activists are part of our history. So are Klansmen, slave owners, various petty theocrats, and some anarchists.
No one gets everything right, and I have not met anyone who gets everything wrong.
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#23 Omega

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:38 PM

View PostCait, on 04 April 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

I think I'm going to try and use a different word to describe the ones in the GOP we are really talking about, maybe "reactionaries".  Try and separate them a little from Conservatives or Republicans.

That's a very good idea. There's nothing conservative about ripping out the system and replacing it wholesale. That's the antithesis of conservative.

#24 Cait

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostDarthMarley, on 04 April 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

Socialists, progressives, and labor activists are part of our history. So are Klansmen, slave owners, various petty theocrats, and some anarchists.
No one gets everything right, and I have not met anyone who gets everything wrong.

Ayep!  We all have to live with the black sheeps of our political persuasion.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#25 Tricia

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostDarthMarley, on 04 April 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:


Socialists, progressives, and labor activists are part of our history. So are Klansmen, slave owners, various petty theocrats, and some anarchists.
No one gets everything right, and I have not met anyone who gets everything wrong.

bolding mine....QFT

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#26 DarthMarley

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostCait, on 04 April 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

View PostDarthMarley, on 04 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Hey, these kind of conservatives are an embarassment to conservative who actually have informed opinions.
I can admit that among "conservatives" are racists and theocrats looking to piggy-back their pet agenda onto the conservative bandwagon.
Pretty much like there have been socialists and communists doing the same with the liberals.

Well said, and I think I'm going to try and use a different word to describe the ones in the GOP we are really talking about, maybe "reactionaries".  Try and separate them a little from Conservatives or Republicans.  They do in fact have different agendas as you have stated, just like Socialists and Communists did and do in the Democratic Party.  It pays for all of us to be able to distinguish these groups one from another.  Saves us the "all" Republicans or "all" Democrats debate.

Getting labels right might not be so important. Plenty of harsh words and invective would not offend me.
As I see it, the problem is when persuasion stops and name calling begins.
It is fine to speak out passionately against something you think is wrong.
But if you can't explain why you think it is wrong, there isn't much to the message rather than an assertion of power.

People who want to establish state religions, ban blowjobs, or make legal abortions inconvenient (or make gun ownership inconvenient for that matter) need to have their error explained.
If all they can come up with to defend their view is a "But it is against GOD!!!" or "Won't someone think of the children!!!" then we will at least have spelled the error (as we see it) out for other reasonable people to better be able to determine their opinion.

Edited by DarthMarley, 04 April 2013 - 02:03 PM.

"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#27 Cait

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 02:18 PM

View PostDarthMarley, on 04 April 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

View PostCait, on 04 April 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

View PostDarthMarley, on 04 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Hey, these kind of conservatives are an embarassment to conservative who actually have informed opinions.
I can admit that among "conservatives" are racists and theocrats looking to piggy-back their pet agenda onto the conservative bandwagon.
Pretty much like there have been socialists and communists doing the same with the liberals.

Well said, and I think I'm going to try and use a different word to describe the ones in the GOP we are really talking about, maybe "reactionaries".  Try and separate them a little from Conservatives or Republicans.  They do in fact have different agendas as you have stated, just like Socialists and Communists did and do in the Democratic Party.  It pays for all of us to be able to distinguish these groups one from another.  Saves us the "all" Republicans or "all" Democrats debate.

Getting labels right might not be so important. Plenty of harsh words and invective would not offend me.
As I see it, the problem is when persuasion stops and name calling begins.
It is fine to speak out passionately against something you think is wrong.
But if you can't explain why you think it is wrong, there isn't much to the message rather than an assertion of power.

People who want to establish state religions, ban blowjobs, or make legal abortions inconvenient (or make gun ownership inconvenient for that matter) need to have their error explained.
If all they can come up with to defend their view is a "But it is against GOD!!!" or "Won't someone think of the children!!!" then we will at least have spelled the error (as we see it) out for other reasonable people to better be able to determine their opinion.

OK, I know this may sound redundant, but well said.  :)

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#28 Nonny

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 02:59 PM

View PostDarthMarley, on 04 April 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on 04 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

View PostDarthMarley, on 04 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Pretty much like there have been socialists and communists doing the same with the liberals.

Yeah, darn that socialist who wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, as it should be.

Socialists, progressives, and labor activists are part of our history. So are Klansmen, slave owners, various petty theocrats, and some anarchists.
No one gets everything right, and I have not met anyone who gets everything wrong.

Yeah, even George W Bush must have gotten something right.
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Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

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#29 Cait

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:01 PM

View PostNonny, on 04 April 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:


Yeah, even George W Bush must have gotten something right.

Actually, Bush's proposals on immigration reform were quite good.  I think he got that right, even if the political will wasn't there to do it when he was President.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#30 DarthMarley

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:21 PM

People misunderestimated his strategery.
"It is not who is right, but what is right that is of importance."

#31 Orpheus

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:01 PM

"North Carolina Speaker Snuffs State Religion Resolution"

Quote

House Speaker Thom Tillis (R-Charlotte) announced Thursday afternoon that the bill would not be receiving a vote in the full House, effectively dropping the measure.

I liked the idea of appropriately specifying "reactionaries" (etc.) before, and this seems to confirm that not everyone in that state, party or side of the political spectrum supports this idea.

#32 Cait

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:35 PM

View PostOrpheus, on 05 April 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

"North Carolina Speaker Snuffs State Religion Resolution"

Quote

House Speaker Thom Tillis (R-Charlotte) announced Thursday afternoon that the bill would not be receiving a vote in the full House, effectively dropping the measure.

I liked the idea of appropriately specifying "reactionaries" (etc.) before, and this seems to confirm that not everyone in that state, party or side of the political spectrum supports this idea.

Yes, it does.  Thank the goddess. :)

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#33 EChatty

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:59 PM

Wow, a sensible solution. Don't vote on it.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: North carolina, Politics, Religion, Constitution, First amendment, tenth Amendment, 2013

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