Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Godzilla Heisei Films

Godzilla kaiju

  • Please log in to reply
63 replies to this topic

#21 Virgil Vox

Virgil Vox
  • Moderator
  • 5,375 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:10 PM

Posted Image


Now that's more like it. After the giant mess of a time travel plot for King Ghidorah we get a much better plot and characters for Godzilla and Mothra: Battle for Earth. Also, Godzilla shows up way earlier than he did in GvKG. So yay for that.

It felt like watching a bad Indiana Jones rip-off there at first. Takuya is a tomb raider, but not the sexy kind like Lara Croft or Nathan Drake, and he gets arrested. His ex-wife, Masako, shows up with a government official and Andoh, a high level executive in a corporation. They want him to go to Infant Island where a giant egg has been uncovered thanks to a meteor dropping into the ocean. Said meteor also awoke Godzilla from his slumber and awakened Battra, the Dark Mothra. Damn meteor.

Takuya actually gets to have an arc through the movie. He starts off as an irresponsible thief who hasn't seen his daughter in years and slowly becomes a better man who gives up his thieving ways. Masako is his put upon ex-wife who is all about protecting the environment. Andoh is a slimy corporate exec who gets less slimy as the movie goes on so yay for him. He is rather stupid however, since he wears a business suit to travel around Infant Island. The Cosmos, the twin mini-sized fairies that are linked with Mothra, are basically there to spout lines about protecting the planet and to call on Mothra's aid when they get kidnapped not once, but twice. Miki appears, but doesn't really do anything and I don't know exactly what postion she has in the government. She basically sits there and uses her powers to tell people that Godzilla is moving, which they can find out themselves using technology. So she's useless in this movie.

The actual title is Godzilla Vs. Mothra, but I think the title TriStar gave it is more fitting: Godzilla and Mothra. That's because this is just as much Mothra's film as it is Godzilla's. Godzilla feels more like an afterthought here. Mothra gets more of the focus and drives the plot. Godzilla is just something Mothra can fight when she's not fighting Battra.

Battra is a pretty cool monster. His larval form is pretty sinister, as Christopher said. A lot better looking than Mothra's, anyways. Mothra just looks ugly in larval form. Battra also doesn't have to bother cocooning himself to turn into his adult form. He can just magically do it whenever he wants. Honestly, I don't know how Mothra beat this guy thousands of years ago. Before Godzilla intervened, Battra was owning Mothra. She didn't use any of her special attacks against Battra whatsoever.

I was actually surprised that Mothra had special attacks. In GMK she could fire stingers and in Tokyo S.O.S. she just used gold fairy dust. Here she has the fairy dust, but also some lightning attacks and beam weapons. So Mothra was downgraded in subsequent films.

The environmental message is really heavy in this film. Battra was created by the Earth to destroy an ancient civilization because they created a machine to control the weather which hamed the Earth. The Cosmos want to help the humans learn to protect the Earth. The corporation is evil and destroying the planet. I get it. We need to stop butchering the planet. Maybe go for a more subtle approach next time.

So was Battra meant to be an anti-hero? Sure he's destroying random cities for no reason, and wants to kill Mothra, but ends up siding with Mothra against Godzilla and sacrifices his life to throw Godzilla in the ocean. Cause it's not like that hasn't been tried before. And he was going to destroy a meteor that is headed for Earth and will arrive in 1999 and wipe out all life. Maybe he was just cranky for being woken up early?

I'm glad that this was a much better film than GvKG. It had a tighter plot, better characters, and some really great monster battles. Now to watch Godzilla Vs. Mechagodzilla II.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#22 Virgil Vox

Virgil Vox
  • Moderator
  • 5,375 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:20 PM

Quote

This was most exciting era for Godzilla for me, the '84 movie was meant as a direct sequel and remake of the original complete with giving Godzilla his fourth toe, the Showa version had three per foot, four toes was meant to signify his status was one of the higher level of dragons.

I did not know that Godzilla had three toes to begin with. Then again, I never counted his toes in any of the movies I watched so far so it's not something I would have caught myself.

I am liking the Heisei era so far. It sounds like Mechagodzilla II and Destoroyah(what a horrible name) are great films and a good ending to the series. Perverse as it may sounds, I'm also looking forward to SpaceGodzilla just because of how bad it's supposed to be.

Quote

But the '92 movie gave us the beautiful Shelley Sweeney who as far as I know was the only caucasian to play a different character in five different Godzilla movies.

The '92 movie is the Mothra one, correct? If so, I missed Shelley Sweeney because I don't remember her being in it at all.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#23 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:21 PM

Mothra would go on do a trilogy of her own from '96 to '98 and they were fantay movies aimed more for the kid audience,
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#24 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:22 PM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 01 May 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Quote

This was most exciting era for Godzilla for me, the '84 movie was meant as a direct sequel and remake of the original complete with giving Godzilla his fourth toe, the Showa version had three per foot, four toes was meant to signify his status was one of the higher level of dragons.

I did not know that Godzilla had three toes to begin with. Then again, I never counted his toes in any of the movies I watched so far so it's not something I would have caught myself.

I am liking the Heisei era so far. It sounds like Mechagodzilla II and Destoroyah(what a horrible name) are great films and a good ending to the series. Perverse as it may sounds, I'm also looking forward to SpaceGodzilla just because of how bad it's supposed to be.

Quote

But the '92 movie gave us the beautiful Shelley Sweeney who as far as I know was the only caucasian to play a different character in five different Godzilla movies.

The '92 movie is the Mothra one, correct? If so, I missed Shelley Sweeney because I don't remember her being in it at all.


Shelley has a very small role in most of her movies, but her biggest one in the '93 Mechagodzilla where she's one of the pilots, she even gets to knock out the male lead in one scene.

And you can see the evolution of the Godzilla suit at historyvortex.org/KaijuFan.html.

Edited by DWF, 01 May 2013 - 09:09 PM.

The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#25 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,916 posts

Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:37 PM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 01 May 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

The Cosmos, the twin mini-sized fairies that are linked with Mothra, are basically there to spout lines about protecting the planet and to call on Mothra's aid when they get kidnapped not once, but twice.

The "Cosmos," as they're called in Heisei (in the other two series they're the Shobijin, "Small Beauties," which is usually translated as "Fairies"), are my least favorite of Mothra's various heralds. The actresses they got here are very pretty in repose, but they're totally lifeless and expressionless, which makes them much less appealing.


Quote

Miki appears, but doesn't really do anything and I don't know exactly what postion she has in the government. She basically sits there and uses her powers to tell people that Godzilla is moving, which they can find out themselves using technology. So she's useless in this movie.

I'd say her role is that of a consultant and a Godzilla expert. I think she did get a psychic message from the Cosmos at one point, but otherwise, yeah, this is perhaps the smallest role she plays in the Heisei movies I've seen.


Quote

Godzilla feels more like an afterthought here. Mothra gets more of the focus and drives the plot. Godzilla is just something Mothra can fight when she's not fighting Battra.

Which is in keeping with their original crossover, Mothra vs. Godzilla (probably the best Godzilla movie besides the original, at least in the Showa Era). As its title implies, it was really more of a Mothra sequel guest-starring Godzilla as the villain. And The Battle for Earth is kind of a loose remake of both Mothra and MvG, conflating elements of both plots.


Quote

I was actually surprised that Mothra had special attacks. In GMK she could fire stingers and in Tokyo S.O.S. she just used gold fairy dust. Here she has the fairy dust, but also some lightning attacks and beam weapons. So Mothra was downgraded in subsequent films.

Although she was upgraded here by being given the energy weapons. In her original film, Mothra's main attack -- if you can call it that, since it was more just incidental destruction than deliberate aggression -- was the hurricane-force wind caused by her wings flapping. MvG gave her a last-resort attack of shedding poison dust from her wings, and of course the larval Mothras had their silk-spraying attack.


Quote

So was Battra meant to be an anti-hero? Sure he's destroying random cities for no reason, and wants to kill Mothra, but ends up siding with Mothra against Godzilla and sacrifices his life to throw Godzilla in the ocean. Cause it's not like that hasn't been tried before. And he was going to destroy a meteor that is headed for Earth and will arrive in 1999 and wipe out all life. Maybe he was just cranky for being woken up early?

This was explained in the film. Mothra and Battra are both spirits created to protect the Earth, but Battra was overzealous and his destructiveness got out of hand. Mothra sort of got caught in the middle of his first battle with Godzilla. But in the climax, when Godzilla had Battra down for the count, Mothra helped revive her brother, and thus convinced him to unite against their common enemy. (Mothra has a knack for that -- see Ghidorah, The Three-Headed Monster.)

Often kaiju can't be fit into a Western hero-villain paradigm -- they're more like forces of nature, not malevolent but so powerful that it's dangerous to be in their path. Remember, these are the creations of a culture that's not only had abundant experience with typhoons and active volcanoes, but actually coined the word "tsunami."


Quote

Now to watch Godzilla Vs. Mechagodzilla II.

My favorite of the Heisei era!


View PostVirgil Vox, on 01 May 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

I am liking the Heisei era so far. It sounds like Mechagodzilla II and Destoroyah(what a horrible name) are great films and a good ending to the series.

I don't know why they used the overly literal "Destoroyah" transliteration for the official title. It's obvious that the monster's name is intended to be simply "Destroyer," as in "Oxygen Destroyer" (rendered in Japanese phonetics as akusijen desutoroya). They actually do pronounce it "Destroyer" in the English dub.

Edited by Christopher, 01 May 2013 - 09:38 PM.

"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#26 Virgil Vox

Virgil Vox
  • Moderator
  • 5,375 posts

Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:25 AM

Posted Image


I think, like Christopher, this might becme my favorite Godzilla movie from the Heisei era. It's just an extremely well done movie and things that I thought I would hate (like Baby Godzilla) turned out to be some of my favorite parts of the movie.

One thing that I really loved about the movie is the cast. Kazuma Aoki might be my favorite human character from these films. He's just a fun character. I know that they only made him a fan of pteranodons because Rodan was in the movie but it worked in his character's favor, IMO. He was just a big geek. His romance with Azusa was believable as well. For the most part when these movies have done romance I really didn't care but there I liked both characters a lot and wanted them to end up together. Their date flying on the ptero-plane or whatever you want to call it was a nice moment.

Likewise, Baby actually worked in the movie. I was afraid we were going to get something like Minilla in Final Wars. Instead it fits within the Heisei era continuity by having Baby be a Godzillasaur, albeit one that has also been irradiated. Baby was actually pretty cute, and I found myself liking him a lot.

Having Baby also helped give a reason why Rodan and Godzilla were attacking. They both saw Baby as theirs. It made both monsters sympathetic. Rodan wasn't evil. He just saw Baby as his sibling and wanted him back. Likewise, Godzilla saw Baby as the last member of his species and wanted him as well.

The G-Force organization was cool as well. It's about time they got serious about defending Japan from giant monster attacks.

I love me some MechaGodzilla so that was a big factor in this movie's plus column. The MechaG here was pretty powerful. It was owning Godzilla in its first fight until it randomly malfunctioned. I was pleasantly surprised that the cockpit was in MechaGodzilla, something I wish they had done in the Millennium films. Guess it's the Power Ranger fan in me. If you're going to be piloting giant mecha, do it from within the giant mecha thank you.

Not sure how I feel about Miki all of a sudden being unsure whether to kill Godzilla. Just because he's trying to protect Baby doesn't negate all the death and destruction he's done. Nor does it make him a gentle giant.

The battles here were pretty terriffic. The final one with MechaGodzilla versus Rodan and then versus Godzilla is one for the books. Though I was disappointed that Aoki never once mentioned how cool or sad it was to be fighting a pteranodon. And once again, random mystical monster magic saves the day as Rodan transfers his energy into Godzilla to fix Godzilla's blown to smithereens second brain.

It ends with Godzilla swimming away with Baby and all is right with the world. Except, you know, all the people that have been killed and all the destruction and the loss of MechaGodzilla. Well, two more films to go before I'm done with the Heisei era.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#27 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,916 posts

Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:04 PM

^Sure, Godzilla's caused lots of death and destruction, but so has humanity. So the question here was, do we really have more right to exist than Godzilla? Was the suffering that MechaGodzilla inflicted on Godzilla so much more noble and justifiable than the suffering Godzilla inflicts on humanity? Does either side really have the moral high ground or are they both just fighting for survival? We think that we've inherited the Earth and he's just a leftover whose time has passed, but if creatures as mighty as dinosaurs could see their time on Earth end, what makes us think we're any more permanent? Sure, there was some silly dialogue about how the age of dinosaurs might come again, but bad science aside, there were some interesting philosophical themes being touched on here, a message about humility and our relationship with nature. Along with the original and GMK, it's one of the most thoughtful films in the franchise. (Dr. Yamane in the original film raised many of the same philosophical questions about whether Godzilla had a right to exist.)

I agree that Baby is the best interpretation of a child Godzilla that we've seen in the franchise. They managed to make him cute without being insufferably cutesy and stupid, and having him be human-sized allowed for a different kind of kaiju interaction, and facilitated the bond that formed between Azusa and Baby. And that bond addresses the concern about how we relate to Godzilla. It suggests that maybe there is another way besides violence, that it might be possible to achieve communication with kaiju and find some way to coexist. I also liked Azusa as a character and it's a shame this was her only appearance. Given the bond she formed with Baby, she would've been a natural for a continuing character, even more so than Miki. (And be warned: everything this film gets right about Baby, SpaceGodzilla gets completely, horribly wrong. Brace yourself.)

And yes, G-Force is a cool addition to the franchise. It's a nice change to see a G-film start with people proactively preparing for the threat of Godzilla rather than just doing some random thing when a monster shows up. And as much as I disliked G v King Ghidorah, I like the continuity of reverse-engineering the future technology into G-Force's arsenal. We also gain three more recurring characters in addition to Miki. Commander Aso (Akira Nakao) and Minister Segawa (Kenji Sahara, who played a Commander Segawa in the final Showa film, Terror of Mechagodzilla) are in all three G-Force films, and Aso's deputy General Hyodo (Koichi Ueda) will return in SpaceGodzilla. (You've already seen Akira Nakao as the prime minister in the Kiryu duology and as the original flying-sub commander in Final Wars. He's one of the few actors to have played two recurring characters in the franchise, though several actors have played two or more one-shot roles.) American actress Shelley Sweeney, who played a Mechagodzilla operator named Susan in this film, will also be in the final Heisei film as an unnamed G-Force technician, so she might count as a fifth recurring Heisei character.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#28 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:28 PM

Well Kiryu had a cockpit of sorts too but here it's meant to be manually controlled and the Heisei version was a real battlewagon. The '93 movie is one of top five Godzilla movies of all time, it really played off as a Hollywood blockbuster and worked rather well. Filmed from some angles though this version of Godzilla does appear to be top heavy at times depending on he's filmed.

21817_10151466862286117_1622502105_n.jpg

G-Force though in retrospect really isn't all nescessary and if anything seemed like a move to make the movies more marketable overseas. But I loved the red spiral super charged heat ray.

488075_379332228787761_991575628_n.jpg

And to my mind the Mechagodzilla comander and Shelley Sweeney have the most important lines in the movie at the end, That life had won, life against artifical life.

Edited by DWF, 05 May 2013 - 12:39 PM.

The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#29 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:45 PM

View PostChristopher, on 05 May 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

^Sure, Godzilla's caused lots of death and destruction, but so has humanity. So the question here was, do we really have more right to exist than Godzilla? Was the suffering that MechaGodzilla inflicted on Godzilla so much more noble and justifiable than the suffering Godzilla inflicts on humanity? Does either side really have the moral high ground or are they both just fighting for survival? We think that we've inherited the Earth and he's just a leftover whose time has passed, but if creatures as mighty as dinosaurs could see their time on Earth end, what makes us think we're any more permanent? Sure, there was some silly dialogue about how the age of dinosaurs might come again, but bad science aside, there were some interesting philosophical themes being touched on here, a message about humility and our relationship with nature. Along with the original and GMK, it's one of the most thoughtful films in the franchise. (Dr. Yamane in the original film raised many of the same philosophical questions about whether Godzilla had a right to exist.)


Most of the points you make are kind moot after the events of the '95 movie and in any event mankind made this version of Godzilla to counteract the Futurians use of King Ghirdrah to destroy Japan. And ordinary dinosaurs are one thing but nuclear powered beings capable of destroying entire cities at a time is something entirely different.

And Shelley Swenney is Candian not American, she was in the '92, '93, '95, '99 movies as well as Final Wars, giving five appeances as I previously mentioned.

Edited by DWF, 05 May 2013 - 12:52 PM.

The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#30 Virgil Vox

Virgil Vox
  • Moderator
  • 5,375 posts

Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:17 AM

Sure, Godzilla has a rigtht to live but we are talking about a giant walking nuclear reactor that likes to stomp around Japan whenever he gets tired of swimming and that was created by humanity. So I can't blame them for trying to get rid of Godzilla. Yes, the Japanese have caused death and destruction too in their efforts to fight Godzilla but let's be honest. If Godzilla existed in real life and made landfall every now and then and caused all that death and destruction the majority of people would be calling for him to be killed. Even when Godzilla isn't actively attacking a city his mere prescence causes death and destruction. Humanity may not be permanent, and our time on this Earth could come to a close at any moment, but it doesn't mean we should stop trying to save lives and keep our species going for as long as possible.

I think another reason I didn't care for it was that the entire point of GvKG was to make Godzilla into a fearsome, terrifying beast again that wasn't friendly to humans and didn't want to protect them. So now for them to pivot all of a sudden and show that Godzilla isn't so bad after all is just mystifying.

Quote

I agree that Baby is the best interpretation of a child Godzilla that we've seen in the franchise. They managed to make him cute without being insufferably cutesy and stupid, and having him be human-sized allowed for a different kind of kaiju interaction, and facilitated the bond that formed between Azusa and Baby.

I did love that bond between them. Sad that they don't use her again. Like you said, she'd be a more natural character to show up in the next film than Miki.

Quote

Well Kiryu had a cockpit of sorts too but here it's meant to be manually controlled and the Heisei version was a real battlewagon.

Yeah it had a back-up cockpit but was only used in emergency. I was really hoping it would have had a permanent cockpit. I can't complain too much. They gave a good reason as to why there was no cockpit. They couldn't protect from the radiation given off from Godzilla's blasts.

Quote

And to my mind the Mechagodzilla comander and Shelley Sweeney have the most important lines in the movie at the end, That life had won, life against artifical life.

They did sum up the movie rather elegantly. I did almost say that MechaG is real, but then I remembered in this version it wasn't built from Godzilla bones and does't have Godzilla's soul in it.

Quote

And Shelley Swenney is Candian not American, she was in the '92, '93, '95, '99 movies as well as Final Wars, giving five appeances as I previously mentioned.

Was she one of the captains of the ships in Final Wars?
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#31 G-man

G-man

    Is there a problem?

  • Moderator
  • 8,620 posts

Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:42 AM

^^^ Yep.  She was the commander of Aerial Battleship Eclair (translates as "Lightning") which fought Kamakuras (the Mantis) over Paris.  No speaking part, however.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself
Let me strive every moment of my life to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, so that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend my assistance to all who may need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens, and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
-- Doc Savage

Few people want to be moderated, most people see the need for everyone else to be moderated. -- Orpheus

#32 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,916 posts

Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:21 AM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 06 May 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Sure, Godzilla has a rigtht to live but we are talking about a giant walking nuclear reactor that likes to stomp around Japan whenever he gets tired of swimming and that was created by humanity. So I can't blame them for trying to get rid of Godzilla. Yes, the Japanese have caused death and destruction too in their efforts to fight Godzilla but let's be honest. If Godzilla existed in real life and made landfall every now and then and caused all that death and destruction the majority of people would be calling for him to be killed. Even when Godzilla isn't actively attacking a city his mere prescence causes death and destruction. Humanity may not be permanent, and our time on this Earth could come to a close at any moment, but it doesn't mean we should stop trying to save lives and keep our species going for as long as possible.

My point was that humanity as a whole has caused far more destruction globally over the course of history than Godzilla ever has. Both humanity and Godzilla are just trying to survive, and often do so at the expense of other living things. The film isn't saying we should just lie back and take it, but it is suggesting that it's not a matter of one side holding the moral high ground over the other -- and that it may be arrogant to assume that humanity is destined or entitled to win the battle.

Remember, it's a Western tendency to define the world in Manichaean terms of good vs. evil, of a clash of two sides where only one is in the right. Asian philosophy is more yin and yang, forces that are opposed but equal and ambiguous, each with aspects of the other. A lot of these movies aren't about clear heroes against clear villains, but simply about opposing forces vying for their own ends. Look at Mothra -- essentially a benevolent deity, but often prone to inflict great destruction on a human scale, not out of malice but out of neglect for beings so comparatively tiny. While Godzilla was an allegory for the atom bomb, kaiju like Rodan and Mothra are more like allegories for typhoons and other natural disasters -- forces of nature that have no evil in them but that we fragile humans don't have the power to prevent or overcome, only to avoid or submit to.


Quote

I think another reason I didn't care for it was that the entire point of GvKG was to make Godzilla into a fearsome, terrifying beast again that wasn't friendly to humans and didn't want to protect them. So now for them to pivot all of a sudden and show that Godzilla isn't so bad after all is just mystifying.

Again, it's the Japanese mindset versus the Western one. Even the deadliest villains can still be sympathetic characters, and even the most heroic figures can be very dangerous and destructive. You can find such themes in plenty of anime, Asian literature, and the like as well as cinema. (I still remember when Star Blazers was first imported back when I was a kid. It was startling to see a cartoon in which the main villain turned out to be a nuanced and morally ambiguous character with honorable qualities, rather than just being a one-dimensional baddie.)

The message isn't "Godzilla's not so bad." The message is that we need to learn humility, that it's folly to think our technology will let us prevail over life and nature and force it to submit to our will, and that if we try too hard to beat nature down, it'll strike back with a vengeance. We may imagine ourselves the masters of Earth, but we're not as powerful as we think.


Quote

And Shelley Swenney is Candian not American, she was in the '92, '93, '95, '99 movies as well as Final Wars, giving five appeances as I previously mentioned.

As I said, lots of actors have played multiple one-shot roles (for instance, the male lead in GvMG will be back as a different character in Destroyah). I was speaking specifically of those few actors who've played recurring roles, the same character within the same continuity. Sweeney is in two of the G-Force movies, but it's unclear whether she's playing the same character in both, since she's a pilot in one and a technician in the other.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#33 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:51 PM

I remember somebody from Toho saying that they wanted to try and get away from the normal adversarial contests of the Showa era and for the most part they did. Biollante called Godzilla to their first battle, the futurians made King Ghirdorah fight Godzilla and meteor awakened Godzilla in the '92 movie and baby/little/JR Godzilla was used to attract Godzilla in the final three movies.

But the UNCGC was made to counter the threat of Godzilla unlike the more generally themed JSDF and it should be noted that the UNCGC doesn't exist outside of the Heisei era. So I do think the Heisei series was meant to be self contained and Destroyer was meant as the last Godzilla film and it's possible that the American movie and the death of Tomoyuki changed that.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#34 Virgil Vox

Virgil Vox
  • Moderator
  • 5,375 posts

Posted 07 May 2013 - 12:29 AM

Posted Image


I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say this is a bad film. It was really good. Maybe my favorite Godzilla film aside from GMK. What's not to love? MOGUERA is cool, SpaceGodzilla is a good adversary, Baby is now bigger and cuter, Miki gets a love interest, Mothra kind of returns, and who doesn't love a mob kidnapping? I think you guys need to re-watch this film. You might appreciate it better.

And I'm joking. :) While not the travesty I was expecting, it wasn't a good movie either. Which is sad, because it has potential. It just squanders it in an amazing way.

I'll start with what I liked, or at least what I thought had good potential. Miki has shown that she can influence Godzilla in previous films, so creating a device that allows her to take control of Godzilla is actually a very good idea. They can steer Godzilla away from inhabited areas which means they have no reason to kill him. I was also a fan of the callbacks to Godzilla Vs. Biollante. Here we see Chinatsu Gondo, sister of Goro Gondo, and Yuki, Goro's friend. Goro of course was killed by Godzilla in GvB. I think it's the first time we've seen how Godzilla's rampages affect people later on. Yuki is driven by revenge and wants to kill Godzilla and has created a special weapon to do just that. Chinatsu is one of the creators of the mind control device and has let go of her anger. Plus she has the hots for Yuki. Also, SpaceG is created either by Biollante spreading G-cells in space, or Mothra. The giant moth makes a cameo appearance, and the Cosmos warn Miki that an evil threat is coming.

I'm torn on whether I like SpaceGodzilla or not. The design is lazy, but I'm a sucker for evil twins. Plus his battles with Godzilla and MOGUERA are pretty cool. I love the giant crystal missiles he fires. He is a pretty powerful foe. Maybe if he had been in a better movie.

So why did G-Force build the obviously inferior MOGUERA instead of rebuilding MechaGodzilla? I know MechaG was pretty much done for at the end of the previous movie, but if they can build a new giant robot why not fix the old one? Maybe if MOGUERA had come before MechaGodzilla it wouldn't seem like a cheap knock-off. It had some nice tricks but I wasn't sad to see it get utterly destroyed.

Okay, so none of the characters were very interesting. I get that Yuki is supposed to come off as some kind of bad-ass lone wolf who's going to single-handedly kill Godzilla, but I found him infuriating. I wanted him to die so badly. And seriously, why was he allowed to pilot MOGUERA? Maybe I missed some dialogue since I did start to tune out the movie after a while, but it seemed to me he had been on the island for a while. So where did his piloting skills come from? Also, who thought it would be a good idea to let a guy with a known grudge against Godzilla pilot the giant robot? He used it to go after Godzilla instead of SpaceG who was actively attacking a city. The guy is so many words I can't use on ExIsle. Shinjo and Sato were dull. I did not care for Shinjo's romance with Miki.

Speaking of, she annoyed me so much in this movie. Practically everything out of her mouth was about how nobody should hate Godzilla and he just needs to be left alone and anyone who wants to kill him is a doodyhead. I'm exaggerating of course, but she did get upset at Yuki and Shinjo for wanting to kill Godzilla. And she did talk a lot about how he was just misunderstood. We get it Miki, okay? Please just stop. For the love of all that is holy, just shut up. And then, at the end of the movie, she dis-engages the control device implanted in Godzilla. Why? It was a good solution that didn't hurt Godzilla. Sure, it messed up both times it was used but it did work. I hate you Miki. So much.

So this movie needed a random Yakuza sub-plot because why? At least the crazy terrorist plot in Biollante served a purpose. They unleashed Godzilla when they didn't get the ANEB. The Yakuza plot is introduced and then quickly done away with. Miki gets captured, rescued, and that's it. Waste of time.

So last movie Baby Godzilla is simply a large Godzillasaur that, while cute, still looks dangerous and half way believable. Here, Baby has grown much bigger and become much cuter. *sigh* At least he gets trapped in crystal and is gone for most of the movie.

While I wish Aoki and Azusa had returned, maybe it's for the best they avoided this movie. Their characters probably would have been ruined anyways.

In the end, this movie wasn't as bad as I feared but was nowhere near as good as I thought it would have been coming off the successful Godzilla Vs. MechaGodzilla II. Now I get to see how they end the series and kill off Godzilla.

Quote

Again, it's the Japanese mindset versus the Western one. Even the deadliest villains can still be sympathetic characters, and even the most heroic figures can be very dangerous and destructive. You can find such themes in plenty of anime, Asian literature, and the like as well as cinema. (I still remember when Star Blazers was first imported back when I was a kid. It was startling to see a cartoon in which the main villain turned out to be a nuanced and morally ambiguous character with honorable qualities, rather than just being a one-dimensional baddie.)

The message isn't "Godzilla's not so bad." The message is that we need to learn humility, that it's folly to think our technology will let us prevail over life and nature and force it to submit to our will, and that if we try too hard to beat nature down, it'll strike back with a vengeance. We may imagine ourselves the masters of Earth, but we're not as powerful as we think.

I get that Christopher. I do. I even like that they're making it more complicated than just bad monster versus good humans. I'm still within my right though to complain that they used an utter travesty of a time plot to introduce a Godzilla they said was meaner, bigger, and not at all Japan friendly in one movie and then almost immediately after say that we all need to learn to get along and that it's all shades of grey. That was not the message they were giving in Godzilla Vs. King Ghidorah at all. Plus, it just got old having Miki constantly berate everyone who said the tiniest negative thing about Godzilla during SpaceGodzilla. That was a case where less definitely would have been more.

Quote

I remember somebody from Toho saying that they wanted to try and get away from the normal adversarial contests of the Showa era and for the most part they did. Biollante called Godzilla to their first battle, the futurians made King Ghirdorah fight Godzilla and meteor awakened Godzilla in the '92 movie and baby/little/JR Godzilla was used to attract Godzilla in the final three movies.

Interesting. I never thought about that. It is nice that Godzilla is given a reason to stomp around Japan. I think GMK was the only movie that gave Godzilla a reason to attack Japan. Against MechaGodzilla kind of did, once Kiryu was built. Godzilla was drawn to the bones of the original, but Kiryu was only built after Godzilla randomly attacked Japan in the opening. I guess Vs. Megaguirus did too, since Godzilla was after energy sources.

Quote

^^^ Yep.  She was the commander of Aerial Battleship Eclair (translates as "Lightning") which fought Kamakuras (the Mantis) over Paris.  No speaking part, however.

Thanks. I found it off that she didn't talk. She just sat there while her ship was attacked and destroyed.

Quote

G-Force though in retrospect really isn't all nescessary and if anything seemed like a move to make the movies more marketable overseas. But I loved the red spiral super charged heat ray.

I don't know. I thought G-Force was a natural extension of the Godzilla (and giant monster in general) fighting forces. It makes sense that a new unit would be made to specifically combat giant monsters. And yes, the red spiral super charged heat ray is quite cool.

Quote

But the UNCGC was made to counter the threat of Godzilla unlike the more generally themed JSDF and it should be noted that the UNCGC doesn't exist outside of the Heisei era. So I do think the Heisei series was meant to be self contained and Destroyer was meant as the last Godzilla film and it's possible that the American movie and the death of Tomoyuki changed that.

Was the American film regarded as that big of a travesty (apparently my new favorite word in this post) that they felt that big of a need to rush a new Godzilla movie into production? I'm not complaining, mind you, but it seems like a bad reason to create a new film.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#35 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,916 posts

Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:30 AM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 07 May 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

And I'm joking. :) While not the travesty I was expecting, it wasn't a good movie either.

Whew. Had me going there.

Quote

I was also a fan of the callbacks to Godzilla Vs. Biollante. Here we see Chinatsu Gondo, sister of Goro Gondo, and Yuki, Goro's friend. Goro of course was killed by Godzilla in GvB. I think it's the first time we've seen how Godzilla's rampages affect people later on.

I might've appreciated that more if I'd seen GvB, but I doubt it would've offset all the awful. What I thought was particularly stupid was how there was no effort from the telepathy team or anyone at G-Force to stop Yuki from interfering with their experiment.

Quote

Speaking of, she annoyed me so much in this movie. Practically everything out of her mouth was about how nobody should hate Godzilla and he just needs to be left alone and anyone who wants to kill him is a doodyhead. I'm exaggerating of course, but she did get upset at Yuki and Shinjo for wanting to kill Godzilla.

You're not exaggerating by much. I hated how the moral ambiguity of the previous film was replaced by Miki's simplistic whining about how Godziwwa had feewings too and they were meanies for trying to kill him. In a lot of ways, this film was a throwback to the later Showa-era films where Godzilla was an antihero rather than a villain. Its version of Baby Godzilla (here renamed Little Godzilla) was like an even more chibified caricature of Minya from the Showa films. And the special effects in the space scenes were so awful that they looked like they dated from the '70s.

One reason I hate this film so much is because it undermines the whole approach of the Heisei Era. I've complained about how GvKG sent mixed messages by trying to paint the "original" Godzilla as some sort of traditional protector beast of Japan, and how much that clashed with the villainous -- or at least aggressive and dangerous -- Godzilla of the other Heisei films, but this one is a full-on Showa rehash that just doesn't fit the era tonally. The problem is that they brought in a whole new creative team aside from the FX staff, people who'd never done Godzilla before and who just didn't approach it the same way.

Quote

I hate you Miki. So much.

Don't hate Miki -- hate what the writers did to her.

Quote

At least he gets trapped in crystal and is gone for most of the movie.

Except what's really frustrating to me is that after Little G is trapped, nobody in the entire film reacts to this event in any way. Even Godzilla doesn't seem aware of it immediately after it happens. I assume the audience was supposed to be worried that LG was in SpaceG's clutches, but it was never called attention to or acknowledged or reacted to by any of the characters. Except for one brief nod at the end to LG being free again, it's like the film forgot it happened immediately after it did happen. It's incredibly bad story structure. And it underlines that there's absolutely no reason for Little G to be in the film at all. He's a complete afterthought.

Quote

I get that Christopher. I do. I even like that they're making it more complicated than just bad monster versus good humans. I'm still within my right though to complain that they used an utter travesty of a time plot to introduce a Godzilla they said was meaner, bigger, and not at all Japan friendly in one movie and then almost immediately after say that we all need to learn to get along and that it's all shades of grey. That was not the message they were giving in Godzilla Vs. King Ghidorah at all. Plus, it just got old having Miki constantly berate everyone who said the tiniest negative thing about Godzilla during SpaceGodzilla. That was a case where less definitely would have been more.

I just don't think GvMG2 deserves the blame for the conceptual flaws of GvKG or GvSG.

And again, GvMG2 was not saying "we all need to learn to get along." It was saying that it's arrogant to assume we have the power to conquer nature. It was saying that life will ultimately triumph over technology. To some extent, its message was rather dark and fatalistic, that we humans can't complacently assume that we will survive or succeed as a species, that someday we may be gone and Godzilla will endure. The most optimistic thing it had to say was that if we left Godzilla alone, maybe, just maybe, he'd leave us alone, so long as we had the good sense to stay the hell out of his way. Not "getting along" so much as respectful avoidance, like the way we'd deal with lions or bears, say. Some films make Godzilla out to be a hero or a villain, but I think many of the best ones, including GvMG2, acknowledge that he's neither -- he's a force of nature, an immensely powerful and predatory animal driven by instinct and need like any animal, and we are to him as ants are to us. So it's not about making friends; it's about learning how to cope with natural forces despite their dangers and their complete lack of regard for our safety or our priorities. Kaiju movies are essentially disaster movies, albeit with somewhat more personalized disasters than most.

Quote

I think GMK was the only movie that gave Godzilla a reason to attack Japan. Against MechaGodzilla kind of did, once Kiryu was built. Godzilla was drawn to the bones of the original, but Kiryu was only built after Godzilla randomly attacked Japan in the opening. I guess Vs. Megaguirus did too, since Godzilla was after energy sources.

In the original, the explanation was that the nuclear tests in the Pacific had displaced Godzilla from his natural feeding grounds and he was seeking a new food source. I'm not sure we ever saw him eating anyone, though. In the sequel Godzilla Raids Again, it was explained that he'd attacked Tokyo because the bright lights attracted and enraged him, which meant the military could use flares to draw him away from populated areas. In Mothra vs. Godzilla, he was blown ashore by a typhoon and was drawn to Mothra's egg, either as an enemy to destroy or a potential food source.

In a lot of the movies, Godzilla isn't really deliberately targeting cities; they just happen to be in the way of his wanderings. This is particularly evident in SpaceGodzilla, which contrives things so that Godzilla's path as he goes to confront SpaceG just happens to pass directly through three major cities, and they get wrecked simply because he prefers to go through them rather than detouring around them. That's pretty hard to swallow, though, because even in highly urbanized Japan, only about 4% of the surface is covered by cities. Then again, most of the interior is mountains, so the cities are spread out over a large percentage of the coastlines; thus there'd be a somewhat better chance that any random path starting in the ocean, such as Godzilla's wanderings, would intersect an urban area.

Quote

I don't know. I thought G-Force was a natural extension of the Godzilla (and giant monster in general) fighting forces. It makes sense that a new unit would be made to specifically combat giant monsters.

Yes, it's a logical development. Usually the Japan SDF or some specialized branch thereof like the G-Graspers is portrayed as the organization responsible for kaiju fighting, but I like it that Heisei gave us a global, UN-sanctioned task force. It makes sense that the whole world would react to the threat of daikaiju, and it gives a sense of larger stakes to the movies.

Quote

Quote

But the UNCGC was made to counter the threat of Godzilla unlike the more generally themed JSDF and it should be noted that the UNCGC doesn't exist outside of the Heisei era. So I do think the Heisei series was meant to be self contained and Destroyer was meant as the last Godzilla film and it's possible that the American movie and the death of Tomoyuki changed that.

Was the American film regarded as that big of a travesty (apparently my new favorite word in this post) that they felt that big of a need to rush a new Godzilla movie into production? I'm not complaining, mind you, but it seems like a bad reason to create a new film.

The Heisei era was concluded due to falling box-office returns, and the plan was to hand the baton to TriStar to produce a trilogy, and hold off on making any new Japanese G-films until the 50th anniversary in 2004. But when the TriStar film bombed, Toho did indeed rush a new film into production for the 45th anniversary. That may have influenced the format of the Millennium series -- maybe the reason they did three separate "audition" films before settling on a direction was because they hadn't had time to go through a proper development process for a new continuity and thus were using them as pilots of a sort. Although ultimately they decided not to continue any of those three continuities but hired the Megaguirus team to create a fourth continuity, the Kiryu universe -- which only lasted two films before falling box office killed it and they decided to do another self-contained continuity to wrap the series up for the 50th anniversary.

Edited by Christopher, 07 May 2013 - 09:31 AM.

"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#36 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 07 May 2013 - 04:44 PM

The problem with the flashbacks to Biollante in Spacegodzilla is that after the '91 movie the Godzilla from the previous movies didn't exist, so there can't be any flashbacks to events in Biollante because it never happened or at least not in that timeline. But ultimately Spacegodzilla was massively diaapointing after the high energy, good pacing, great characters and solid plot of Mechagodzilla. Spacegodzilla didn't have the overall themes of the other Heisei movies nor the interesting characters of those movies, it had a mess of a plot and steroetypes for characters.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#37 Virgil Vox

Virgil Vox
  • Moderator
  • 5,375 posts

Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:48 PM

Quote

And the special effects in the space scenes were so awful that they looked like they dated from the '70s.

Oh I had forgotten about that. I think my mind shoved it in the far corners and hoped to smother it. That was such a bad sequence. It was a good idea but it didn't work. I'd rather them not do it than do it badly.

Quote

Except what's really frustrating to me is that after Little G is trapped, nobody in the entire film reacts to this event in any way. Even Godzilla doesn't seem aware of it immediately after it happens. I assume the audience was supposed to be worried that LG was in SpaceG's clutches, but it was never called attention to or acknowledged or reacted to by any of the characters. Except for one brief nod at the end to LG being free again, it's like the film forgot it happened immediately after it did happen. It's incredibly bad story structure. And it underlines that there's absolutely no reason for Little G to be in the film at all. He's a complete afterthought.

Agreed. I kept thinking they would so something with it, but they didn't. Maybe stage a rescue, or show Godzilla going to him after SpaceGodzilla was defeated. I read that there was a deleted scene with Godzilla trying to free Little Godzilla. They should have kept it in since it would have at least added some value to LG's prescence in the film.

Quote

I just don't think GvMG2 deserves the blame for the conceptual flaws of GvKG or GvSG.

Trust me, I'm not blaming GvMG2. While I do think Miki's change of heart was abrupt, the message at least worked there and was subtle. Not the bludgeon of death like it was in GvSG. The problem isn't with the plot or anything like that. Just that it feels like a waste to go to such lengths to show that this was not your dad's nice Godzilla, then turn around and show some ambiguity, and then throw the ambiguity out and make it as in your face as possible. The handling of it is what I have a problem with.

Quote

The problem with the flashbacks to Biollante in Spacegodzilla is that after the '91 movie the Godzilla from the previous movies didn't exist, so there can't be any flashbacks to events in Biollante because it never happened or at least not in that timeline.

I swear, that time travel plot is worse than Jason or Michael Myers or Freddy Krueger. It just keeps coming back to haunt us time and time again.

Quote

But ultimately Spacegodzilla was massively diaapointing after the high energy, good pacing, great characters and solid plot of Mechagodzilla. Spacegodzilla didn't have the overall themes of the other Heisei movies nor the interesting characters of those movies, it had a mess of a plot and steroetypes for characters.

Couldn't have said it better myself. What's sad is that I wanted to like SpaceGodzilla. I really did. I went in with as open a mind as I could. The movie just took every opportunity it had to become something good and went in the worse possible direction.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman

#38 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,916 posts

Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:04 AM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 08 May 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

Just that it feels like a waste to go to such lengths to show that this was not your dad's nice Godzilla, then turn around and show some ambiguity, and then throw the ambiguity out and make it as in your face as possible. The handling of it is what I have a problem with.

Except that Godzilla was always ambiguous even at his most serious and malevolent. The original film is so great because it's loaded to the gills with ambiguity and challenging ethical questions. It portrays Godzilla as a ruthless and terrifying force of destruction while simultaneously acknowleding his right to exist as an animal following his instincts and pointing out the great potential for scientific and medical gain if humanity studied his survival and regeneration ability rather than simply destroying him. It uses Godzilla as an allegory for weapons of mass destruction and emphatically portrays their horror, while simultaneously acknowledging that sometimes they have to be used. It's even ambiguous on a purely human level: the heroine is engaged to one man and having an affair with another.

Ambiguity is the hallmark of a good, smart kaiju movie. In Mothra, the title beastie is essentially benevolent but doesn't hesitate to inflict massive destruction on those who get in her way. In Mothra vs. Godzilla, the heroes acknowledge that the Infant Islanders are right to condemn outside civilization for devastating their island with atomic testing, but argue that it's nonetheless wrong to condemn others to suffer and die as punishment. In GMK, Godzilla is as malevolent and brutal as he's ever been, but is nonetheless driven by a righteous rage at the crimes of Japan's past and is the nation's punishment for trying to ignore or write over its dark history. So the ambiguity of GvMG2 is part of what makes it so good. Just ignore what GvKG did with its portrayal of Godzilla -- it's a muddled, contradictory mess, treating the "old" Godzilla as some kind of noble protector beast and his time-altered "replacement" as pure evil. It doesn't fit with the previous films and it's ignored by the later films. What GvMG2 did was to cast aside its predecessor's mistakes and give us what's probably the best portrayal of Godzilla since Mothra vs.G.

Edited by Christopher, 09 May 2013 - 08:07 AM.

"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#39 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 09 May 2013 - 05:12 PM

I really like Godzilla VS king Ghirdorah, it was meant to reset the series and pave the way for the next two movies, it's only really contradictary to what came afterward. Godzilla's new size of 100M caused some production problems. And it's been anti-American but it's just as much a cautionary tale for the Japanese as well as it is anti-American for it's portrayal of WWII. And I'd to ask Steven Spielberg if he's eveer seen the movie since they put his dad in it.

Edited by DWF, 09 May 2013 - 08:55 PM.

The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#40 Virgil Vox

Virgil Vox
  • Moderator
  • 5,375 posts

Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:14 AM

Posted Image


Godzilla Vs. Destoroyah (henceforth to be called Destroyer) is much better than GvSG and is a fitting end to the Heisei era. Not as good as GvMG2 mind you, but close.

Godzilla's smoking, burning up red look was done really well. He looked great, as well as very scary. Nothing worse than a burning red Godzilla with red eyes and red atomic breath. I like the fact that Godzilla is dying because he's a giant walking nuclear reactor and he is melting down. It's better than the military or some random monster killing him. The fact that his death will also spell doom for the planet gives the movie an even greater sense of urgency.

I have to say it. If only there was some way to control Godzilla, get him away from populated areas and in a position where G-Force can cool him down. Hmm. Wait a minute. Didn't they have that in the last movie, but Miki thought it was unethical and removed the transmitter that allowed her to control Godzilla? Stupid Miki. And that's the last time I'll bring up that subject. Promise.

Destroyer, despite having a tongue ripped off straight from Alien (as well as being introduced in a sequence reminiscent of Aliens) is a good monster for Godzilla to go out on. There's quite a few of the buggers, they can combine to form into one giant Destroyer, and they were created by the use of the Oxygen Destroyer. It's a nice call back to the original movie. Though I could have done without the sequence where one Destroyer attacked the reporter as she hid in a car. It made the creature look really inept, and the puppet (or man in suit) they used just was not up for a sequence like that. Plus it just dragged on.

Much better characters than the last film, but they don't top the ones from GvMG2. Miki returns, and is much more tolerable here. Apparently she is going to lose her psychic powers since that's what happens to psychics when they grow older. She spends most of the film looking for Little Godzilla, who is now apparently Teen Godzilla. Kenichi and Yukaro Yamane are okay characters. Kenichi is a bit of a stalker since he wasn't interested in helping G-Force until he found out Miki was there. Yukaro is a reporter who likes to hide in cars from monsters but only seconds later opens the door to check if said monster that was just chasing her is gone. Not the brightest reporter out there. Dr. Ijuin has made micro-oxygen, which is basically just an updated form of the oxygen-destroyer. Has a thing for Yukaro. I'm not sure if Meru was supposed to be an American helping out the Japanese or Japanese and helping out the Americans. Or maybe she's French what with her love of berets and all. Anyways, she is psychic as well and that's it. Not reallt sure why she was in the movie. Andoh (or at least his actor) makes a cameo appearance. Since they don't actually name him, I'm going to say he's Andoh and that after quitting the evil corporation he went to work in the TV business. And was that Aoki piloting the Super X3? Looked like him. He's another one that wasn't named, so I'll just pretend it was.

Surprising to see another Super X3. The last two didn't work out so well, but wouldn't you know that this one is fitted with cold weapons that coincidentally just happen to be exactly what the military need to stop a quickly melting down Godzilla?

I know we've talked about ir all ready, but it still is confusing that the other movies (before the time travel reboot) made it out like this was the same Godzilla from the original. Here though they say that the original did indeed die at the hands of the Oxygen Destroyer, which means the Godzilla in the first three films was a new Godzilla, and the Godzilla in these last few movies is another Godzilla as well. Throw in Teen Godzilla and that's a lot of Godzillas running around.

Teen Godzilla is an improvement over Little Godzilla from the last movie. He is realistic looking and not at all cutesy. He looks like a miniature Godzilla, and thank heaven for that. He actually got in on the fighting, which was nice. Sure, he got his butt handed to him but he always has papa Godzilla to back him up.

The fight between Godzilla and Destroyer was a lot of fun to watch. It helped that Godzilla had a personal stake in it since Destroyer had just stabbed Teen Godzilla in the throat and left him to die. Though it was confusing when Destroyer broke up into smaller parts, attacked Godzilla, randomly disappeared, and then re-appeared in giant form from out of nowhere. Still, that's a minor quibble in what is otherwise a really good giant monster brawl.

Godzilla melts down, but thanks to the Super X3's cold weapons, it doesn't destroy the Earth. I was shocked at how graphic Godzilla's death was. I guess Toho really wanted fans to know that Godzilla was dead. It was a sad moment. Ignoring the time travel from GvKG, this Godzilla has been a constant in all seven films. While Godzilla was always defeated in the Millenium films, they usually showed that he was still alive and kicking. Here, he's a pile of melted goo. Goodbye, Heisei Godzilla. It was fun while it lasted.

But wait! Apparently Teen Godzilla sucked up all the radiation let out by Godzilla's death and is now a full blown Godzilla himself, letting out a roar as the movie ends. Not sure how I feel about that. I liked the more somber ending with both Godzilla and Teen Godzilla dead. Though I guess that's too much of a downer. Here at least there's hope.

While I know that Godzilla is the star and the reason why people watch these movies, I do wish there had been closure for some of the human characters. Miki has been in six films. What happens to her now that the original Godzilla is dead and Teen Godzilla has assumed the throne? What about G-Force, which has been around for three films? Commander Aso? The Yamanes? The people who might be Andoh and Aoki?

It's sad to be done with the Heisei era films. Overall I liked the series. With the exception of the time travel plot and SpaceGodzilla, it was all thumbs up. I liked that the films had continuity between them and that events in one would be referenced in others. A nice change of pace from the Millenium series where each movie (aside from the two Kiryu films) was self-contained. The high point was definitely GvMG2. One of the better Godzilla films, period.

Quote

I really like Godzilla VS king Ghirdorah, it was meant to reset the series and pave the way for the next two movies, it's only really contradictary to what came afterward. Godzilla's new size of 100M caused some production problems. And it's been anti-American but it's just as much a cautionary tale for the Japanese as well as it is anti-American for it's portrayal of WWII. And I'd to ask Steven Spielberg if he's eveer seen the movie since they put his dad in it.

Take away the time travel atrocity and everything that it caused, as well as Emmy's astounding stupidity, and it's not a bad film. Nor do I think it's really anti-American. Yes, the Godzillasaur kills all the Americans but Godzilla himself kills a lot of Japanese people. It also doesn't sound like Japan is a particularly nice country in the future, even if it is the dominant super-power. Yeah, the Steven Spielberg line was really odd. But now we know where he got his ideas from. It does have a lot going for it, but it's just hard to forgive them for the time travel.
"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
--Jor-El


It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-- Harry S. Truman



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Godzilla, kaiju

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users