16 replies to this topic

[Cait]

I always admired Bob Dole and wish he hadn't resigned from the Senate to run for President in '96.  Course, I also wish almost everyone else that has run would have resigned to run for President too, but that kind of politician is a thing of the past.  I always admired the fact that he actually resigned to devote himself to running, instead of pretending he was representing Kansas in the Senate and keeping the job open if he lost.

In any event, this is an interesting read.  I'll try and find a film clip.

http://www.huffingto..._n_3339291.html

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Still, he acknowledged it's not easy to work with the Senate, where he said "no doubt about it," cloture is being abused. He didn't spare the Republican Party his criticism, saying they need to be "closed for repairs" and come up with more plans and a vision for the future before the end of the year. Wallace asked him whether he'd even fit in with the Republican Party today.

"I doubt it," Dole replied. "Reagan wouldn't have made it, certainly Nixon wouldn't have made it, because he had ideas. We might have made it, but I doubt it."

[Balderdash]

It would be nice to hear from more "real" Conservatives.  I've said it before but I was never a died-in-the-wool liberal or
Democrat.  When I was young the thing that made me a Democrat was Bobby Kennedy.  As I've gotten older the thing
that makes me a Democrat are Republicans.  I used to vote for Republicans quite often, I don't know a single one that
I could vote for now.  All the good ones have retired or quit from frustration, it's pretty sad because as a country we
need them.

[Cait]

http://thinkprogress...snowe-bob-dole/

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SNOWE: Well, I certainly do agree with the former Majority Leader Bob Dole with whom I worked with when I first entered the Senate and who was a consensus builder and understood what was essential and what was important for the Republican Party and what was important for America. And that unfortunately has been lost today, on Capitol Hill. And yes, Republicans do bear responsible as do the Democrats. You have to work together. And obviously, the Republican Party is undergoing some significant and serious changes and they’re going to have to rethink their approach as a political party, and how they’re going to regroup and become a governing majority party that appeals to a broader group of Americans than they do today.

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Last year, former Senator John Danforth (R-MO) told ThinkProgress that the Republican Party’s purge of even conservative Senator Dick Lugar (R-IN) showed his party was becoming “intolerent,” “very pure and increasingly inconsequential.” Former Republican Congresswoman Claudine Schneider of Rhode Island told ThinkProgress then that Reagan “would be embarrassed” by what the Republican Party has become.

[Bad Wolf]

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As I've gotten older the thing
that makes me a Democrat are Republicans.

And it's just so tragic that  this is the case for so many people.  But there it is.   If you want the right to choose, marriage equality, for Christianity NOT to dictate public policy, and any kind of help at all from the government you simply MUST vote Democratic at least at the national level.  The alternative is a country whose leadership lives by mottos such as "let them eat cake", "are there no prisons; are there no workhouses?" and "better let them get on with it [dying] and decrease the surplus population".

No thank you.

Edited by Bad Wolf, 28 May 2013 - 12:51 PM.

[Cait]

^ Additionally, I find it even more difficult to take Republicans seriously when they also make a cottage industry out of prisons, workhouses, and digging graves in Potter's Field.  If it were just an ideology, I might be more understanding, but it's not just an ideology.  It's an ideology built on pure greed.  The Government can't do anything right is the cry, but all it is in reality is some new industry that can build a for profit industry on the backs of the taxpayers.

[Lin731]

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As I've gotten older the thing
that makes me a Democrat are Republicans.

Couldn't have said it any better than that.

[scherzo]

One thing ALL Republicans know, is how to get a nice pat on the head from liberals. But getting in front of a microphone and criticizing conservatives requires no brains or integrity. All you need is a profound ignorance of both history and our current circumstances, or a complete lack of principles. If you're Colin Powell, you have ALL that stuff going on. Bob Dole is just not that bright. The fact that he includes the GOP in his complaint about our lack of a budget proves that much.

[Cait]

^ LOL Don't get your knickers in a bunch.   No one was giving today's Republicans a pat on the head.  If anything we were waxing nostalgic about Republicans of old.  You know, when they knew how to govern.

[scherzo]

Cait, on 28 May 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

^ LOL Don't get your knickers in a bunch.   No one was giving today's Republicans a pat on the head.  If anything we were waxing nostalgic about Republicans of old.  You know, when they knew how to govern.

Dole's getting the pat on the head today Cait.(it'll be Powell again in due course) And the tired meme about how much better the Republicans were back in the day, was loud and clear. The point was, ALL suck-up politicians know regurgitating liberal fallacies will get them a good ass kissing. It's much harder to stand on your principles, which is why professional politicians like Dole never bothered.

[Cait]

First, I'm not a liberal.  I'm just NOT a Conservative either.  No one party has what I consider the right policy positions on all the issues that concern me.  And, when people come in and say that the only reason they vote for Democrats is Republicans, that should concern you if you REALLY want Republicans to run the show.  

Second, rephrasing exactly what I said, doesn't make your comment witty or even clever.  Of course we're talking about how much better Republicans were back in the day, that's what waxing nostalgic means.

Third, while I respect your principles and your pursuit of Conservative purity, you do know how it comes across don't you?  I guess, I should just let you keep it up.  we'll see how well this attitude plays come the midterms.

[scherzo]

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Second, rephrasing exactly what I said, doesn't make your comment witty or even clever.  Of course we're talking about how much better Republicans were back in the day, that's what waxing nostalgic means.

You obviously didn't understand my first post, so I tried explaining it again. Being "clever" or "witty" wasn't on the agenda. But you've got that snotty jabs quota to fulfill so...

Anyway you were about to say something else that has nothing to do with anything I've ever posted...

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Third, while I respect your principles and your pursuit of Conservative purity...

Respect...with a side order of snark. If I were compiling a hall-of-fame for Ex Isle passive aggression, this bit would definitely have it's own 3D viewing area.

Since you don't know, I'll just tell you. My pursuit is combating ignorance. Superliberals are notoriously immune to new information, but they actually don't represent most of the voting population who went Democrat this last election. Chipping away at the big lies is NOT helped along by a Republican Party that is essentially a co-pilot to big government excess. There is no point in the GOP existing at all if they can't even provide a contrast to modern day liberalism.

[Bad Wolf]

FTR, I am not passing out pats on the head.  People gotta EARN that sh*t and um...Bob Dole hasn't.

[Cait]

scherzo, on 29 May 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

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Second, rephrasing exactly what I said, doesn't make your comment witty or even clever.  Of course we're talking about how much better Republicans were back in the day, that's what waxing nostalgic means.

You obviously didn't understand my first post, so I tried explaining it again. Being "clever" or "witty" wasn't on the agenda. But you've got that snotty jabs quota to fulfill so...

sigh, what is painfully obvious is that  we seldom understand each other.

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Respect...with a side order of snark. If I were compiling a hall-of-fame for Ex Isle passive aggression, this bit would definitely have it's own 3D viewing area.

I know it doesn't fit your perception of me, and that is fine, but not every comment I make to you is backhanded.  Just tuck that fact away for future use. It might help you read my posts more accurately.

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Since you don't know, I'll just tell you. My pursuit is combating ignorance. Superliberals are notoriously immune to new information, but they actually don't represent most of the voting population who went Democrat this last election. Chipping away at the big lies is NOT helped along by a Republican Party that is essentially a co-pilot to big government excess. There is no point in the GOP existing at all if they can't even provide a contrast to modern day liberalism.

Nicely put.  Thank you for responding.

[Kota]

Cait, on 28 May 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

First, I'm not a liberal.  I'm just NOT a Conservative either.  No one party has what I consider the right policy positions on all the issues that concern me.  And, when people come in and say that the only reason they vote for Democrats is Republicans, that should concern you if you REALLY want Republicans to run the show.  

Easy to see you are bucket full of adamant beliefs, but you are a Libertarian.

Does any one party have all the right positions on all the issues for anyone,
you're not special nor alone on this.

Edited by Kota, 29 May 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[Mark]

Balderdash:

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As I've gotten older the thing that makes me a Democrat are Republicans.

Mark: The enemy of my enemy is my friend, eh? That works out nicely for both parties as neither are really our friend anymore. To me, that's the problem...neither party is afraid of public opinion specifically, because we're now compelled to vote for the lesser of two Evils. However, their was a recent disturbance in the Force that seemed to have caused Republicans to give pause, be unsure of themselves, and appear to be wandering aimlessly as a group.

IMO, the Republican party's greatest problem is that "conservative" appeal has recently changed, and the party itself fractured with the rise of the Tea Party faction. I think many of the Tea Party ideas are not conservative at all. As we all have seen, many of their protests rallies appear radical. That doesn't mix well with the very traditional conservatives, but has caused enough of the less traditional conservatives to have doubts the old ways still worked. Even though the Tea Party movement doesn't give claim to either of the old parties, it seems to have been based in the grass-roots conservative group, normally associated with Republicans. That group must account for enough of the Republican voters to change normal voting patterns, and prevent enough voters either from voting Republican, or cause them to vote Democatic (I need to look up that theory to see if it holds water).

I don't think "radical"ideals appeal to the main body of either Republican or Democratic voters. However, it appears (to me at least), the Tea Party has probably taken more votes from Republicans (and skewed their ideals) than anything else in recent history. I could be totally wrong about that, but that's the impression I've gotten anyway. I think it's caused many old die-hard Republicans to either doubt their agendas, or doubt the effectiveness of their party's ability to get their agenda's implemented or passed into law.

It seemed to have caused newest Republican candidates to lose their goals during the elections since the Tea Party's rise. Did Mitt Romney seem to stammer regarding his Presidential goals and the means in which he intended to have them implemented, during the 2012 election. Was that caused by his own lack of experience, OR was he uncertain what the Republican base really wanted out of their Presidential hopeful because of the Tea Party movement? Politicians are notorious for catering (on-they-fly) to their perception of what their voters want. Perhaps Mitt Romney seemed unclear and/or uncertain to many of us (including myself) because the Republican party had fallen victim to cloudy Tea. ...heh, cloudy Tea...

Edited by Mark, 29 May 2013 - 09:45 PM.

[Cait]

Kota, on 29 May 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Does any one party have all the right positions on all the issues for anyone,
you're not special nor alone on this.

I don't know whether to be comforted by the fact that I'm not alone, or even more worried by just how much politicians of any stripe are out of touch with all of us.

[RJDiogenes]

^^  I think the latter is the part we should worry about. We live in an age of extremism in which ideologues of all stripes are out of control.  This is why we need election reform more than ever (he said like a broken record ).  But it's not just politicians-- it's the everyday people who are overly influenced by them.

It's good to hear someone of Dole's stature say this. I think McCain would agree, and I hope he speaks up, too.  I always thought McCain was a decent guy who compromised too much as a presidential candidate (as I recall, he once condemned the influence of religious fanatics on the Republican Party, but then had to woo them for his campaign). I once saw him give a speech where he told the crowd that his opponent was worthy of respect-- and they booed him. He was booed by his own people for advocating respect.  I think that was the moment that he lost the election, because I think that was when he stopped wanting it.