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Once Upon A Time: Lost Girl

Once Upon a Time Once Upon a Time: Season 3 Once Upon a Time: Season 3.0 Neverland

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#1 DWF

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 06:37 PM

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While the team continues their quest to find Henry, Pan offers Emma a map for price.

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#2 DWF

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:08 PM

Regina still looks great as the Queeen, I can't see Emma as an orphan though and Peter Pan is already getting tiresome. But it was nice seeing the dwarves again and I liked the flashbacks, but excalibur addition was a bit much and only served to allowed the viewers to parallel the two stories instead of allowing Snow to inspire herself naturally.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

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#3 RJDiogenes

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 06:59 PM

I wonder why Rumpy is so afraid of Peter Pan, but Hook isn't.  Does Rumpy know something he doesn't?
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#4 sierraleone

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 08:49 PM

View PostRJDiogenes, on 07 October 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

I wonder why Rumpy is so afraid of Peter Pan, but Hook isn't.  Does Rumpy know something he doesn't?

That would be odd, since Hook has likely spent a lot more time in Never Never Land battling the lost boys than Rumpy. At least by my, very possibly, sketchy guesstimates ;) IIRC Hook had been there before he first met Rumpy, who wasn't even the Dark One yet.

Though it is certainly possible. Different antagonistic relationships, different battles, different powers or sides shown. It is certainly possible, if Rumpy knew his son Bae was in Never Never Land, that he could have had a very similar battle with Peter before - and lost. Heck, even the ending, Peter telling Emma that Henry hasn't forgiven her for abandoning him and he wouldn't want to leave by the time she found him. Has Rumpy been thru something similar with Bae/Neal?
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#5 Avalon

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:19 AM

Well, I've missed a lot of episodes, so I may just be shooting in the dark, but this is what it looks like to me:

So far, Pan's biggest weapon is manipulation. It's how he gets Henry to use the pixie dust and Emma to admit she felt like an orphan.

It's how he reduces The Dark One to helpless tears, on his knees. (No, Pan's not actually there, but he sends the doll.)

Gold is, for all his power and own manipulations, still very, very vulnerable emotionally. He's still got people he loves, he cares about his own life, and he's unsure about what he values most, when it comes right down to it. He's still got things to lose and so many places he can be poked and prodded in. And he knows it. I think that's why he's so afraid of Pan.

Hook...what does he have to lose? What does he really care about? The only woman we've seen him love (at least, that I know of) is dead. He has a healthy respect for the dangers of both Neverland and Pan. I don't think he's terrified of Pan because he knows to go by his rules on the island, and he knows how he manipulates, so forewarned is forearmed. (And, also, I don't think Hook is planning on facing down Pan alone like Gold is preparing to, so there's that, too.)

#6 innocentone

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:42 AM

I believe Hook let someone else get their hooks into him.  by way of Emma, he Is falling, and fast and he probably don't even realize it yet. Time will tell.

#7 Bad Wolf

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:46 AM

What made this episode for me was that it wasn't about Emma believing that she was "the Savior" or something like that.  It was acknowledging a deep truth about something that was deeply formative for her.  She was abandoned by her parents.  Granted they had good reason at the time but that doesn't change the effect it had on her or the hole it left in her.  I really liked that twist.
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#8 RJDiogenes

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:25 PM

^^  The only thing that bothered me about that was that it was arranged by Pan to manipulate her.  It wasn't a "pure" insight that resulted from the magic.

View Postsierraleone, on 07 October 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

View PostRJDiogenes, on 07 October 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

I wonder why Rumpy is so afraid of Peter Pan, but Hook isn't.  Does Rumpy know something he doesn't?

That would be odd, since Hook has likely spent a lot more time in Never Never Land battling the lost boys than Rumpy.
That was exactly my thought, although Avalon gives some good reasons why it might be.
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#9 innocentone

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:30 PM

Personally, or in my own opinion, I thought all that was hashed out last season, with the why we did what we had to do for your survival. How long is she going to hold that against them.  It is not like they really had a choice in the matter.  I guess the Netherlands just bring out the best in whoever venture there.  I am still trying to wrap my mind around Gold on his knees crying over a dressed up doll. I think I prefer Story brook, I hope they hurry up and get back there

Edited by innocentone, 09 October 2013 - 06:31 PM.


#10 Bad Wolf

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:31 PM

I hear you on Pan's manipulation but I wonder if there's not more to Pan than is meeting the eye.  It's like everyone on this island is being tested somehow.

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#11 RJDiogenes

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:46 PM

View Postinnocentone, on 09 October 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

I am still trying to wrap my mind around Gold on his knees crying over a dressed up doll. I think I prefer Story brook, I hope they hurry up and get back there  
I'm definitely feeling the absence of Storybrook.  And the other weird thing about that doll is that he can't get rid of it-- he burned it up and it came back.

View PostBad Wolf, on 09 October 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

I hear you on Pan's manipulation but I wonder if there's not more to Pan than is meeting the eye.  It's like everyone on this island is being tested somehow.  
That's a good point.  Maybe it's not just the Lost Boys' island-- maybe it's the Lost island.  :lol:
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#12 Virgil Vox

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:57 PM

A good episode but I think they need to show just why Pan is such a big threat aside from being manipulative. Rumple and Regina are both just as manipulative as we've seen Pan. For Rumple to believe that going against Pan would end him Pan must be packing a lot of firepower.

So Emma still sees herself as an orphan, and hasn't forgiven Snow and Charming for abandoning her. Like innocentone, I too thought that this had been more or less hashed out last season. Still, with Pan's parting remark that Henry hasn't forgiven Emma for abandoning him I have hopes that this plot will advance the characters quite a bit.

I wonder if the Lost Boy that Emma spared will play a part later on. A lot of these kids have to have been like Neal. Stolen from their homes and forced to work with Pan. So maybe some of them will turn against Pan later on.
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#13 DWF

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 07:31 PM

I'm alittle of Emma being either a savior or the chosen one, she's a heroine in own right without all the added pressure of being soething even more special. And the reaccuring doll reminds me of the one the Twilight Zone ep. with Telly Savalas.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#14 sierraleone

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:42 PM

View PostVirgil Vox, on 09 October 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

So Emma still sees herself as an orphan, and hasn't forgiven Snow and Charming for abandoning her. Like innocentone, I too thought that this had been more or less hashed out last season. Still, with Pan's parting remark that Henry hasn't forgiven Emma for abandoning him I have hopes that this plot will advance the characters quite a bit.

While I don't want them to hash on it all the time, it fit into the story/Never Land perfectly. With the title of the episode I figured that it referenced Emma, not a new character. She saw herself as an orphan from birth to, what was it, age 27? 29? That is not something you get over in a year or two.

Even if she did logic it out, her whole world view and perception of herself, the world, and her place in the world, was formed from her experiences as an orphan. Maybe it is just because I've been doing respite fostering for six years, with the same kids, knowing how that messes with their perception, that I don't mind a bit of screen time devoted to it. It feels real and honest and I think it is nice for a character to go thru that, and not just be an orphan with cursory reference to it (i.e. "window dressing").

There are layer and layers and layers of feelings and ideas and concepts that people develop as they grow up. They walked around with all those all of the time subconsciously and they don't examine and change most of them. Some it doesn't matter, they are inconsequential to various degrees. The stuff that kids that go thru growing up unwanted, unloved or uncared for (in or out of foster care) is not easily vanquished with a couple heart to heart talks.

Hopefully, once we get thru Never Never Land, Emma will at least be done with her journey thru it, more or less, at least on screen. But it doesn't hurt to have it brought up once and a while. I wonder if Snow or Charming will ever ask Emma more about her childhood. The good the bad the ugly. They have got to be curious about what they missed. Her child's first kiss. Good milestones. Bad ones. But first Emma has got to accept things as they are, and they've got to have more than one moment of peace ;)

Too bad they couldn't make Regina more balanced, they make her into the ultimate evil 'step'/'adoptive' mom, as if only biological family have a chance at being good and right. The kids I foster always had a fantasy about finding their 'real parents' (they were apprehended real young). Which is normal. Yeah, this show is fantasy, but not only kids from 'normal' families watch fantasy shows/movies. But I guess I am in the minority for liking how Emma's childhood, and subsequent consequences, is handled. If one is going to use a 'tortured background', a little honesty doesn't hurt.

I certainly wouldn't want every episode to deal with it, retreading the exact same ground constantly, with no variation, but what exactly is the number of episodes limit for character dealing with, and trying to move past, a lifetime of having such an essential and integral part of their character?

If one does want to watch a show that revolves around adoption/foster issues every episode watch "The Fosters" on ABC family. It manages somehow to be peachy without being preachy or peachy-keen, if that makes any sense? :)

Edited by sierraleone, 09 October 2013 - 08:44 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#15 Cardie

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:19 PM

Pan's followers are probably all orphans or separated from their parents.  It's his thing. So of course he works on the part of Emma that still feels orphaned and alone; he plans to work on Henry re: his mother having given him up for adoption.  Rumple got that doll from his father right before his father abandoned him.  Pan's not going to let him move on from those feelings of abandonment, so if Rumple wants to get rid of the doll that represents them, Pan is going to make sure he must carry it around with him.
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#16 Bad Wolf

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:22 PM

View PostRJDiogenes, on 09 October 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

View Postinnocentone, on 09 October 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

I am still trying to wrap my mind around Gold on his knees crying over a dressed up doll. I think I prefer Story brook, I hope they hurry up and get back there  
I'm definitely feeling the absence of Storybrook.  And the other weird thing about that doll is that he can't get rid of it-- he burned it up and it came back.

View PostBad Wolf, on 09 October 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

I hear you on Pan's manipulation but I wonder if there's not more to Pan than is meeting the eye.  It's like everyone on this island is being tested somehow.  
That's a good point.  Maybe it's not just the Lost Boys' island-- maybe it's the Lost island.  :lol:

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#17 Cardie

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:27 PM

The showrunners wrote for Lost from the 2nd season on. They are constantly putting Lost shout outs into OUAT.
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#18 innocentone

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:21 PM

Quote

And the reaccuring doll reminds me of the one the Twilight Zone ep. with Telly Savalas
DFW,  I loved that showing with the doll also.  but I think this doll has more to do with Gold and Bain, the doll representing Bain and how Gold sent him through the portal and not followed after his son begged and pleaded with him to let go of the magic, but the magic won out and Gold was left with guilt which to this day eats him alive..  I also seem to remember a episode where as Gold went to the Netherlands to try and find Bain, he had someone with him that he was going to exchange them for his son..  Now that I think of it I think it was Regina trying to get her pop's back I don't know I am sort of confused.  I must say this the Actor portraying Gold is looking better and better to me every time I see him.  I guess I have a bad boy fetish the darker the better and in this case I mean character more then race, :love: Heartless and deadly with no remorse.    I still laugh when I hear Tamara asking him to forgive her.  I I was like she has got to be kidding me, if she thinks Gold is going to forgive her :evilchuckle:

#19 innocentone

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:24 PM

Is anyone going to watch the new show tonight Once upon a time in Wonderland, or is one Once upon a time show all you can handle Lol!!!  I may give it a try just to see. but the original got me hooked, confused, flabbergasted, intrigued, and totally hooked.  So we shall see

#20 Cardie

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:51 PM

innocentone, they are in Neverland, not the Netherlands, i.e. Holland.
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